Demons and Possessions

0:01 Hello bizarre story, friends. If you're tuned in now you are listening to The Bizarre AF, a place where we talk about the strange, the absurd, the unknown, and all things bizarre AF. I'm Alicia, your Hostess for today's episode, and as always, we ask that you keep an open mind, keep a skeptical ear, but keep on listening to those facts as we take you on our newest journey, Demons and possession.

0:59 Well, hello, my cohost with the most. How are you, Boo thing. You look absolutely terrifying. Thank you. My if you're watching online, I'm zip a face. Yeah, yeah, and you are fucking adorable as Mr. Edwards Scissorhands. Look at that face. Little Boo Boo I this is so cute. It's you know what I think we're both dressed up as like one of our favorite thing. Yeah, I did Edward last year. You've you've done Super face. I've done super face before and just I just love doing like signs like, you know, scifi and like horror kind of makeup.

1:42 It looks so good, so good. So good. Yeah. So good. I'm so, so fun. Yeah, it's spooky season. And spooky season. Yeah, we have to dress to accordingly. We have to dress accordingly. You know, we love with themes. So we are, we are all, all, all set. And you know, before we start, you know, into our episode, I wanted to, you know, just cheers because it is Halloween time. We do deserve a little bit of a cheers for today. So to Halloween to. Halloween. Cheers a little, Aussie spumonti, what is that? It's like a sweeter supersecchio Prosecco, and I don't like sweet, but that's really good.

2:29 It's not like it's Uber sweet. No, it's not Uber sweet. I love it. Edward loves it. OK, So typically when we talk about the demonic possession, it kind of conjures irrational or even otherworldly behavior. That's what you're thinking of, right? We're talking about climbing on the walls, speaking in like strange, biblical, Aramaic, like languages, dead languages. Walking upside down on all four? Exactly. That's exact I was thinking of, and I'll be honest, out of all of the topics that we've covered aside from aliens, because aliens really scare me. This topic scares the shit out of me. Which is why I was like, I have to do it for our spooky season because it really Spooks me out.

3:16 All right. Good. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, so I I don't know. Were you scared of demonic like demons? Like I wouldn't be able to sleep. I used to not be able to sleep. If I watched a movie or like heard about like a possession or demons, I would it would keep me up at night. I would be convinced that I something's just lurking around the corner. No, there were. Like, I think that the Super, super unreal stuff never really bothered me. I never. I could watch it no problem. Like Freddy Krueger. I love Freddy Krueger, don't get me wrong. But, like, it didn't scare me. It's like when it starts getting plausible that I get scared.

3:59 That's when I get scared, Yeah. And I don't. Oh, my zipper's falling down. So like those demon ones Or the creepy the Jeepers Creepers? Ever see that one? I didn't see Jeepers Creeper. So it's just because it's so like there's nothing scary about it per se until near thing, but it's just that thought of the unknown, evil, scary possession stuff. This again, that seems plausible. That's what's kind of scary. I I think, and I mean, you know, it makes sense. Like at least for me, I I think and and we both live in this country. But this was like, this has to do with my upbringing. I was raised in a Protestant church growing up, not a particularly conservative one, but I was raised in a church nonetheless.

4:51 And I remember stories even of Jesus driving out demons that like adults were talking about. This was like super scary, right? Adults are like, no, no. This is really terrifying. And you know The Exorcist. Exactly. You know, they start speaking in tongues and they start doing like spinning their heads and their eyes rolling back. I mean, and it's normal humans who just have something like possess them or whatever. It's so scary. So we were just talking about it. You know, we're talking about the Christian and Catholic, you know, form of possession, which is what we typically think of. We think of, you know, the Exorcist, the exorcism of Emily Rose.

5:31 These are things that, you know, come into your head first. But there are other ways, you know, that people can be possessed. And I think the real issue, like you were saying, it's, it seems like it's real, it's people are having an altered state of right, you know, emotion or whatever. That seems uncontrollable, uncontrolled, something unknown. Yeah, it's unlike who they are. To do. It's gonna do, yeah. And it has like it typically is, like with possession, negative connotations for the human being that is being possessed, right? Right. And we've talked about start, interrupt voodoo. Remember how when we talked about possession like that's an IN? That's a wanted thing? Because it's not.

6:15 Demonic or evil in in its intent, right, that people go into and we'll talk like lightly, you know, go over some vodu. But like you're right. Like it is, the intent behind it for folks is to seek out answers right and to get something from the spiritual realm. But in our context we're talking about the, the not so friendly. We'll talk a little bit about, a little bit about everything, but but normally you hear demons, you hear demonic possession, you hear possession and you're like, that's not something you want to do, right? And in all different types of religions and stuff, they have that. So in Judaism it was after the destruction of the temple in the 3rd or 5th century, there was a huge practice of magic and this included like amulets, incantation bowls, and these were to ward off evil spirits. But one dude took it even further, as they always do, right?

7:14 Isaac Lucia actually created the idea of a dibic, which is a soul that inhabited A victim until it's stoned for its sin or atone for its sin. And there's a book called Balshem that can remove a dibic via exorcism that's that's in Judaism. So this is like the version of possession that we know well, where the devil or a demon takes over an unsuspecting person. So when you're thinking of that, we're thinking of that people climbing on the walls and like not acting normal. Magically anti gravity abilities. Yeah, and like superhuman strength and stuff. And ultimately, like, I could break it down by by Christian denomination, but I'm not going to do that. Don't worry about it.

8:06 Okay, Kevin. So since you and I were raised in the Protestant US culture, we're well aware of demons and demonic possession and the idea of spiritual warfare, which is where the devil and his cronies are. Try try to influence and take control of a human, That's a very real thing. The Catholics believe that possession occurs as involuntary as well. So like, nobody's asking to be possessed. It just happens. And they have a very specific means of exercising these demons out. What we'll go over a little bit later. But if you're thinking about sleeping tonight, Kevin, I'm sorry, you're not going to be able to, I think. You're not going to be. No.

8:47 I mean, I'm saying that just for myself, probably. I'm going to actually put on my dusty former Bible study leader, hat on and quote the good word. I know because even Jesus didn't have time for trifling ass possession. OK, so this was actually from Luke chapter 4, verses 33 through 35. In the synagogue there was a man that was possessed by a demon and evil spirit and he cried out at the top of his voice. Ha, what do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the holy one of God, you know, just in front of him. And Jesus like comes in.

9:27 Be quiet, it's what he says has come out of him. And the demon threw the man down before all of them and came out without enduring the man. All the people were amazed and said to each other. Because he was scared of Jesus, right? They're like, oh, what is this teaching? Like who is this guy, right? With authority and power, he gives orders to evil spirits and they just come out and the news spread about him throughout the surrounding area. So that's the quote. And I like to think of like Jesus walking out with like a chain, a backwards cap, a hat, like hat on and like some lokes and just like him, just like walking away like a real gang. So, like, get out of there. And they're like, yeah, OK, sure. And like everyone was fucking talking about him because he's such a gangster.

10:15 So it's like, that's the story, like in the Bible. Then we have like, Islam. And Islam actually has many types of demons and spirits, some of which deserve their own episode. And I definitely want to cover them. The one that I'm most stoked to cover is the gin. Have you heard of the gin? So you've heard of genies, right? Yes, so. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like the more official right the judge in in the Quran they talk about the gin. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I have. Now that you say that, yeah, so the gin are not so dissimilar to humans. They're more powerful, but they have free will just like human beings do, and they are judged by God at the end of their lives.

11:04 Are they immortal? They're not immortal. I think they have a longer lifespan than human beings, but they're not immortal. So they're judged by God based on the decisions that they make, just like humans are. So what they look like, they're typically invisible. They have thin bodies that they can actually change into whatever they want. Typically this is snakes, scorpions, lizards, and even human beings. So they can like kind of morph into anything. They can smash With humans, they can. They can, you know, with humans and have offspring. Yeah, they can also be injured, and they'll seek revenge by possessing A human's body, so they won't leave until it's forced via exorcism. But don't be scared, because they preferred really to stick to their own.

11:55 They prefer to stay in their own communities and you're. Going to make. In other words, you're going to make me possess you. I'm going to do it, but really, rather not. Yeah, I'd really rather not. They'll mess around like the weird ones will mess around with human beings. Sure, they like to stick, yeah, because they can. But like really, they like to stick to their own folks and you can protect yourself with amulets if you need to. So there's the Shayton which is also in Islam. In the Quran it's the most note and the most notable notable one of this shayton is the Bliss, which is similar to the the devil. So you can think of him as like being the leader of the pack, much like Lucifer is like demons.

12:40 They're invisible but they are depicted and believed to be disgusting like vile looking creatures. Their whole thing is to cause human and Gen. to sin by like whispering into their hearts and brains and tempting them to do bad. OK, so there are some parallels with Christianity and Catholicism and the fact that like, you know, the Devil, Lucifer, fallen angels. It's very similar. Like there was a war and like, you know, it's a very similar idea, but they are really the OG influencers, so. The OG influencer? Yeah, they're like, they're like whispering, ooh, you want to do this? Oh, like, I think you should do this. This is going to sell out in Sephora, you know, like, whatever.

13:30 It's like kind of the idea. They are not like the Jen who are able to choose good and evil. They are just plain evil. No matter what. They are just evil, evil things, and there's really they can't choose good to be good. Yeah, yeah. So there's not much talk about them actually possessing people, really, the ideas that they're influencing. And they can steer over, take people's thoughts by whispering temptation into their ears, and it's done to humans and gin alike. So we had spoken about before in your voodoo episode, Voodoo in Haiti. And that spirit possession is not always a bad thing.

14:13 So can you break that down a little bit? Yeah, yeah, that's not. That's exactly it. So as Alicia said earlier, like when we hear possession like it's instant negative connotation, whereas in voodoo as we speak in our episode, it's a good thing because of the spirits. Get just as much out of it as the human that is being possessed. There's kind of this trade off and this agreement and you know I'm going to possess you and I'm going to get this and you're going to get this and and it's just a kind of a balance and a intended just good thing And then of course Western cult I'm I'm you know blame stupid Americans in western culture for just turning it into you know great.

14:59 Movies, yeah. Scary. Just it's always negative and gross and murder, right? Major right. And in reality it's a reciprocal relationship where where the those who are being possessed are getting knowledge or whatever, and then the ones that are possessing are also gaining something like an experience or whatever, eating stuff like that. Yep. Exactly So in Buddhism, like Buddhists believe that there are Caesars or those that threaten the lives of young children and and they tend to appear in animal form like a cow, lion, a fox, a monkey, horse, dog, pig, cat, crow, pheasant, owl, snake. And that's the image of the demon. And the way that the child moves and sounds, like the noises that they make is actually something that can be a good indicator of what type of Caesar it is, what is possessing them. But like in Vodou, it can be beneficial. So there there is, like in Buddhism, there's a Mara which is sometimes translated as demon and it can be being suffering in the hell realm or even a delusion of a person. So there the idea was, before Siddhartha became Gutiyama Buddha, Buddha, he was challenged by Mara and the embodiment of temptation and things like that and overcame it.

16:28 Not so dissimilar to Jesus being, you know, in the in the desert, being tempted by Satan. Yeah. And that's just it too. You like these religions, believes, whatever. And I don't even talking about organized religion. I'm just talking about, you know, communities and peoples and believes, like, it's so funny like everyone has the same stuff, just in a different. Description or format or. Yeah, order or whatever, right. It's it's similar. They're all similar themes. Yeah. That you see around the world. Yeah. It does take like they're they have different names but like they're not so dissimilar, right. So in the in Buddhism they have different types of Mara's or like spirits.

17:16 And the Kelsamara is an unskill, is in the embodiment of all unskillful emotions like greed, hate and delusion. There's another Mara, that's death, that's like the embodiment of like death. There's a ska Honda Mara which is a metaphor of for the entirety of conditioned existence. So what we're conditioned to do, which is kind of like a a negative or like a spirit or whatever, there's one that Devop Torah Mara, which is the diva of of the sensuous realm who tries to prevent Gutama Buddha from attaining liberation from the cycle of rebirth on the night of Buddha's enlightenment. So it was like a hey come over here, look over here. And Buddha's like maybe?

18:09 Look at these. Yeah actually I have to do something important but but you can understand how that would be so ultimately like these Mara's will depart to a different realm once they are appeased. So once you come over overcome this temptation they are appeased and they leave. So Indonesia, they Bali people actually choose like in Vodou to be possessed for specific reasons. So they'll they actually go just like in Vodou, they'll go into a very a practice which was a very specific and controlled state with rituals. And the idea is to believe to be to cleanse people and places of evil influences and actually restore spiritual balance because the the goal, the attainment is spiritual balance and not you know skew one-on-one way or the other. So it's often actually referred to as a exorcism ceremony. So in Sulawesi, the women practice a possession trance ritual, which they smother glowing embers with their bare feet at the very end of it.

19:24 And I've seen this, you, you may have seen this. It's like these women are putting their bare feet in this, like it's just red hot embers. Yeah, coals. And the fact that they're not burned on their feet afterwards is, is the idea or considered proof that it is authentically A possession that they're not actually human. Gotcha. And when they got through it, So now that we know like some different types of it, right. And by the way, would you ever do that? Would you ever like? Try to do these things that would like let's say it was like something like vote, do like would you. Allow me to be possessed or, you know, I I haven't given that much thought.

20:11 Like I felt gosh. OK, so here's the problem. Yes, please. Here's my problem. So I'm so conditioned into bad juju. Yeah, that it's kind of like the Ouija board stuff. Like, I don't like. It's all about intention and stuff. I always go and make sure I go into it very, very clean and pure because I'm scared of the like doing something that I don't know I can do or doing something that's like no win out. And so even going into that it with a good heart and good mind, I would still be slightly apprehensive about taking a risk, an unnecessary risk. And again, I think it's just because my Western conditioning. Right, right.

21:07 So I think I would want to do experience something like that but but just I think I would be slightly hesitant like what what, what about you? I think, I think that if I were in a position that I was like, OK, I feel like I can really trust. This situation, I think I'm becoming a little bit more open to that kind of thing only because I see that like the yin and Yang, like you have to have good and evil. And like, sometimes it's really fun to be a bitch. And sometimes like, it's sometimes it's necessary right, to to have like negativity in order to serve a greater good or a greater purpose.

21:52 So I'm starting to see more of that balance. I think that. I'd like like you. I'd like to believe that I would do it, but it does terrify the shit out of me. Like all this stuff is I cannot undo. Like being 13 and seeing The Exorcist. I cannot undo not being able to sleep for two weeks after seeing The Exorcist. And my friend, can I tell you the story when I saw it? Yeah. Okay. So my friend was like, oh, I'm going to watch The Exorcist. And my mom's like, I'm not watching it. My parents are both like, that's like one of the scariest movies. I'm like, I really, I like being scared. What do you like? What are you guys thinking? My my parents are like, if you really want to watch it, you can. But I'm not willing.

22:33 And I've always like, it was like that forbidden fruit. I wanted to taste that fruit. So I did and. My friend was like, yeah, this is like the movie. It was like over halfway, Like over now. Were your parents very religious? They were raised, so they're born. My mom was raised Catholic, My dad, his parents were Catholic. And then he ended up converting to Christianity. My grandfather's a minister, and I thought I was going to be a minister. OK. So I was very I was more religious. OK. At that age, OK, so the movies half over? It's like half over And my friends like, hey, I'm gonna take a shower. Are you OK for me to do? Because her her dad was out of town and so we kind of had the house to ourselves.

23:19 And why was she taking a shower during the middle of the movie? Well, does she have evil plans? Dude, let me tell you. Damn it. So because I'm sitting there watching and they had this little poodle. So her dad's girlfriend was out of town and the poodle was there. And the poodle, you know, love poodle. So I can't. But the poodle was like, sitting there. I'm like, OK, if anything happens, this fucking dog's going to Alert me, right? Like animals. No, they know. So she. I'm like, yeah, sure. Like, it's really not that scary. She's like, yeah, I don't think it's really that scary either. I'm going to take a shower. I'm going to go take a shower. And I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. It's not that scary. That's when all the shit happens in the movie. Yeah, yeah, it's like, I feel like she intentionally.

24:01 Had me watch it alone. Darkened fucking room by myself and the dog started fucking barking at the corner of the room and I was like, she's taking a shower. The longest shower known to man. She's probably like this scares the shit out of me. I don't want to let Alicia know. This scares me exactly. But I'm like sitting there like, Oh my God, the dog's fucking barking. And I'm like, I don't know how to stop the VCR. Because yes. VCR at that time, but be kind rewind. Be kind, rewind, but it was like, are you fucking kidding me? So whatever ends up happening and I'm terrified, I the only thing that made me feel safe was I had my baby sister.

24:47 She was like months old, so I must have been 14 and I had made her like sleep in bed with me. Because I was so scared and I'm like something this pure cannot hurt me. So that was like my first. I'm like never. I would. I would watch it again and probably not sleep. I would need like you think. Have you watched it? You haven't watched it since then, obviously. No, I haven't. Have you? OK, let me just. I don't want to digress. Or I'm going to digress for a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But if you watch those kinds of Movies Now, at least for me, I go, I was scared of that. Like, that's like, dumb. Like, really?

25:29 Yes, I go. The Exorcist though? Well maybe not The Exorcist. I don't know cuz I haven't watched it in like decades. But I'm just saying like some of them, I've gone back and watched. I'm like, Oh my God, this is so cheese ball. Like, why was I scared of that, like? Rosemary's baby? Sure. Like that. I do think that was like, it's like more of like a psychological like scary you kind of movie. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, yes, like we need to have an exercise or exorcism night. I mean, a exorcist night. Where we watch it, Yeah, we'll do Ouija board and then watch Exorcist and then make you stay up all night.

26:12 Long. No. This is what I'm going to do. You guys are not going to sleep. I am sleeping with you and Roy and the bed. I'm gonna be like you motherfuckers. I'm so scared. I'm crying like I don't give a shit. There are demons out there. Roy won't watch any of that scary shit at all. He's. Not a fool like us because he's not a fool. He's not a fool, yeah. He certainly won't do Ouija board or. He won't. He won't not, you know, he doesn't even like Big Brother drama. We were just talking. About Oh my gosh, yeah, that's very true. So I'm like, give me the drama, give me the TI want to know everything. I don't want to be a part of it. I just like the drama. Okay. So anyway, sorry. So now that we take crush, so now that we know the different types of of demons, what about? How do you get rid of them?

26:59 How do you exercise them? I'm gonna actually turn to Catholics for this one. Sure, because that's what we know of as the way to eliminate the demo. Well, and they're also dramatic. So like so full of symbolism and and devices. And things and yeah. Rules and like, oh, this is what you have to do and you have to be approved and you have to be guilted. Like, I mean, come on, look at the fucking Pope. Like, how dramatic? Well, Catholicism is so symbolic. Like there's rituals and there's symbols and there's. There's smells, just things. They have incense like, yeah, I never had incense super dramatic or smells. It is a theatrical like particularly, it truly is. We are dramatic people.

27:45 Yeah. We love that. Love it. So I have to go through that. Yeah. OK, so Catholic exorcists actually said there's two types of possession, the ordinary. So just think of like normal stuff like temptations, just the basic version. Yeah, like maybe you're like. Fuck that person. I'm gonna trip them when they walk past me or whatever. And then you also have extraordinary demonic or satanic activity and that extraordinary. So there's two levels. Yeah, there's two levels of possession. I feel like there needs to be like more, but. Oh, there's like subcategories. It's done. Oh, OK, cuz yeah, with that basic and then like, yeah. Exactly.

28:26 So it's like you have like an evil thought and that's one form of possession because like, something's whispering into your ear like the Satan or Satan. Not Satan, shaitan, whatever it was with Islam anyway. So the extraordinary type, there's six different forms of extraordinary, OK, Possession forms of extraordinary, yes. OK. So it and that ranges from like complete control by Satan to voluntary submission. OK, so there's my levels. Yeah, yeah, there's your levels. So the first one, possession, which Satan or demons take. Full possession of a person's body without their consent. There is no consent here.

29:07 We we prefer consent. Consent, consent, Consent No means no. No means no. OK, Demon, OK Lucifer. No means no. They don't give a fuck. That's the first one. It usually comes as a result of a person's actions. So they have actions actually lead to an increased susceptibility to Satan's influence. So maybe they're. I don't know. I don't really think that anything is like a sin, sin. But. Catholics do, right? Like maybe idolatry? Maybe there's. Murder. Maybe there's like fucking adultery. Maybe there's like, lying. Yeah, they're very judgmental people, so it could be many things. Sorry.

29:49 No, no, don't be sorry, not sorry. The second one is obsession and this includes sudden attacks of irrationality. So obsessive thoughts like think OCD, like you know when you're like obsessively thinking about something and but it usually. Culminates and suicidal ideation, and it also typically is the the typical thing is like that. It'll influence dreams and stuff, so people will think about, like, you know, killing themselves off themselves, stuff like that. Once again, it's never worth it. People love you. You're worth it. Oppression, So there's no loss of consciousness or involuntary action.

30:33 So. When you think of Job, the book of Job in the Bible. So Job was tormented by Satan fucking. I don't know this, but you don't know this. No, I don't know this the most fucked up story in the Bible. Basically it's a story of God and Satan having a bet as to whether or not this guy hope will, like will succumb and say fuck God. And God's like, Oh yeah, I'll put 20 on it. Let's try to do everything to him, try doing everything to him. We're oh, yeah, he's not going to. That's like like, honestly, it's like a bet between God and Satan and and like like Satan's like, oh, you're most devout follower. Job.

31:14 Job is he. He's not actually like, I can turn him and God's like, sure, be my guest try. It's not going to happen. So like his family dies, did happen. His family dies, he goes through famine, he like loses his job. He was very successful. He gets like boils all over his body and literally only has like a pot to piss in that breaks and he didn't. And he cuts the boils open and his body, and still he laments God, but he does not stop believing. So it's like demons fucking with you. And if you're a job in the book of Job, God's like saying.

31:57 Yeah, sure, try it. Fuck that. Fuck you. I'm sorry, that is like such a shitty story. Anyways, that's job. So they're tormented by Satan through a series of misfortunes. The 4th one is external physical pain caused by Satan or demons. So like. You know, think of burns that have no reason. Like, you know, Yeah, just, like, magically. Like scratches, like people talk about. Like scratches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scratch is a huge thing, yeah, bruises, things like that. The fifth one is infestation. So this affects houses. So it's objects inside of your house, things, animals. So like it's it's more of.

32:44 Outward not within you. It's more of the things surrounding you that becomes possessed and then subjugation, which is the 6th one which a person actually chooses to be possessed. Possessed submits to Satan or demons. So in of course those are all the types. Now how the fuck do you get rid of them? So the Roman ritual or true demonic or satanic satanic possession, it has four characteristics. So they have to have a person come in. That is ordained by the Catholic Church to to do these do a possession or to exercise an, yeah, an an exorcism. Yeah, has to come in and he has to observe everything that happens.

33:31 OK. So yeah, to to understand what needs to be applied. Well, to understand, is it actually possession? Demonic possession? So you mean in other words, are they just cuckoo? Right. Exactly. That's part of it is like the idea is to go through that in order to to summize whether or not they are actually possessed by a demon. Or is it just, Yeah, emotional. Sure stuff. OK. So the they have multiple characteristics, the four different characteristics that they have to watch. So the first one is the manifestation of superhuman strength. They're like moving things or like doing things that a body, like a human body would never do. Speaking in tongues or like those dead languages. They don't know devil Latin and stuff. Yeah.

34:17 Or like Aramaic or like, yeah, there. And people like I've never heard Latin like outside of. The third one is revelation of knowledge, whether it's distant or hidden that the victim cannot know. So like maybe some ancient things about you know, demons about Satan, about you know Jesus. Whatever sure for is blasphemous rage. These are obscene hand gestures, using profanity and an aversion to holy symbol symbols, names, relics, places. So that's why I like Gotcha the Cross. I'll have the cross, I'll say the holy water. Yeah, holy water, the power of Satan compels you, or the power of Christ. Compels you.

35:04 Yeah. So like and they're like, you know like freaking out. But like that's that's like another thing. Like are they are Do they have all four of these signs? So. Actually, I looked at different Catholic encyclopedias to kind of find like, you know what, what it is that how they break it down. Because there's a lot of room for error in this, right? If these people who are judging whether or not someone is actually possessed aren't they're not doing it correctly, then like a lot of people can die because they are mentally unwell, right? Sure. So this is like a medical like a doctor. Right. Yes, you could totally do the wrong thing, dude.

35:45 Absolutely, yeah. So what it states, the new Catholic Encyclopedia states a class ecclesiastical authorities are reluctant to admit diabolical possession in most cases, and this is because they can be explained by physical or mental illness. So therefore medical and psychological examinations are necessary before the performance of mate a major exorcism. For an exorcist to be morally certain or beyond reasonable doubt that he or she is dealing well, it's mainly he, because we're talking about Catholics, he is dealing with a genuine case of demonic possession. There must be no other reasonable explanation for the phenomena in question. So they do say that you need to have like a psych psychologist, like psychiatrist, deem that this is like outside of like schizophrenia and stuff.

36:40 I wonder what if you had a non religious psychologist though, Like wouldn't they always be able to explain it as some sort of a mental defect? Like it's interesting. It's funny that you say that there is a dude when I was doing research for this that was saying he's like I there's a guy who's an exorcist that is near me and he has me, he's a psychiatrist, has me go in and like check these cases, he said a lot of them are. Multiple personality disorders like different issues, but there are some that like have no, there is no history. There is no, like explanation for this. Really. Yeah. And but he cut goes in first, so he works directly with an exorcist and he's a board certified section. So this is like legit like like you know someone that does it. Yes.

37:27 Wow. Yeah, it's fascinating. OK. So the official Catholic doctrine affirms that demonic possession can occur. As distinguished from mental illness. So mental illness is separate from demonic possession. They are not one in the same. You can be mentally ill and or well or and and or. Can, yeah, ultimately take care of the mental illness before you treat the exorcism. Yeah, yeah. But they stress that cases of mental illness should not be misdiagnosed as as demonic influence. Well if one believes in possession then it goes to reason that you would need to fix your mental issues as that actually could have potentially opened the door for possession. So it seems sounds to reason that you would want to address your mental problems before you try to exercise the the demon. Absolutely.

38:29 Yeah, absolutely. And what they they also like when they are actually choosing to do an exorcism. They say that the authority can only come from a Bishop. So in order for a Catholic, like an actual Catholic exorcism to take place, you have to have a priest who says, OK, I think this is what's happening. Then the Bishop has to look at it and say, is this actually what's happening? Yes, it's actually what's happening. Let's perform a exorcism. That's the only way. It has to be very official and the rules in which they. They just make that decision are super strict. They even say that like a simple form of exorcism occurs during baptism. So, like, when you're baptized, it's like a simpler like like nothing sure can.

39:20 Which, by the way, have you been baptized? I'm not. I was baptized, but not the Catholic Church. Yeah, What? How? How are you baptized? Presbyterian And do they how do they just like drip water over your head or do they like little dunk? Yeah. So that's like more a Southern Baptist. Yeah, Baptist, of course. They're very dramatic. And so they have to do that press. I was raised Presbyterian, and Presbyterians are kind of like the nerds of the Bible. Yeah, they go into like the. Root words and Aramaic and shit. Anyways, that's what I was raised and go figure. But you basically do a confirmation class very similar to Catholicism. You have to do a series of classes and talk about like what God means to you.

40:02 Do you understand what you're doing? The difference between the Presbyterian Church and the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church. They do it much younger. I was like a teenager when I did. I think it was like 14 or something when I got baptized and I had to do a confirmation class and have like somebody who's like a spiritual mentor walk me through it and stuff. And there's a bunch of us who did it anyway. OK. So you've been you've had an exorcisms. I guess I've had according according to the to the Catholics I have. Yeah, absolutely. So now that we actually know what demons are around the world, and we know how to deal with them in a possession, I thought we could look at a couple of notable possessions.

40:46 OK, I thought you were going to say we were going to have a live exorcism, but that's OK. Oh my God. I would be so scared if you're like, I like it started doing that. But no, no, please, please, please. Who do I need to call? Where's that? OK, so there's the exorcism of Roland Dole, which is actually what the the story The Exorcist was based off. Of So it's Roland Dole or they also call him Robbie, like Mannaheim. So it's one of the two. So it's a it's a fake name, right? But it happened in the late 1940s. The Catholic Church actually performed a few exorcisms on a 14 year old boy.

41:33 And the priest, Raymond J Bishop, wrote it all down because that's what they do. They write everything down. And that's how we know what actually happened today. Roland lived in cottage City, MD in the 1940s and he was the only child and lived with his parents and an aunt. And his aunt Harriet was a spiritualist and we talked about spiritualism last year on our Halloween episode. She loved talking to the dead, and one of the ways that she would communicate with the dead was yes. Ouija board, Yes, Ding Ding Ding. It was the Ouija board. And like a good aunt, would she actually let Roland or Robbie use it with her?

42:20 So, you know, let's move forward and Harriet dies. And after that, the family said that there were, like, strange noises in the house and furniture seemed to move and objects would start levitating and flying around whenever Roland was in the room. Now, this is something that we typically think of with like poltergeist activity, right? Yeah. Like when you think of the poltergeist. And yes, well, you know, I always say this, but like, we're gonna it's it's one of the topics that we're going to discuss in a future episode is like poltergeists, but it's typically around like kids when they're like 1314. Like in that early pubescent stage is always that early pubescent stage that this shit happens. Between the innocence and the non innocence. Is that the deal?

43:07 I don't know. Like, like if you're asking me like if I were to guess what it was, I think that there's like so much energy that's occurring within within their body and like. Puberty and all the puberty, all these hormones like who who, who knows what kind of chemicals and stuff that we don't even maybe understand like what that's doing And like you have the perfect conditions and we talk about telekinesis, we talk about like moving objects with your mind and stuff like that. It's like these things are can happen and people have shown that can happen when you have a surge and like energy and stuff of course like it makes sense it would happen anyways. This is happening with Roland and they the family was super freaked out.

43:49 They're like this is not normal. What is going on? So they contacted their pastor and their pastor was actually a Lutheran pastor. His name was Luther, go figure Miles Schulz Luther, the Lutheran. He was probably named after Martin Luther, which was the creator anyways, so he was really into parapsychology. So he was really super into ghosts and like all this shit. And he's like, hey, parents have this 14 year old boy stay the night at my house so I can observe his behavior.

44:29 It's only to observe his behavior. Okay. God, here we go, right? Like, that's not weird, right? Like you, have someone come over to my house? If you were. Family of God. If you were God fearing they would, why would you think you would Think twice about that? You would never think twice about it. You would be like, oh, this is a pastor. My pastor is like, cares about me. He loves me, like, why would he ever steer me wrong, blah, blah. Of course. So they listened to him. And Pastor Luther, he's like, let let me watch and see if anything happens. He said that shit started moving around in his home on its own, and he knew that he was like basically out of his depth. So he.

45:12 He So he was. Was he a legit? No, he wasn't a legit exorcist. No. No. Like, so ultimately what happened was, you know, the shits like moving around, parents get freaked out. And they're like, who do we go to? Yeah, let's go to our pastor. We go to church every Sunday. He'll know what to do. And he's like, let's see if it's actually happening or if they're just, you know, Yeah. And he's like, no, it's actually happening. Just there's something to this. It's like documented. Yeah, yeah, it's documented. It's crazy. We'll get, we'll get further into it. So he he ends up going to to like tells the parents like you need to find a Catholic pre priest, OK yeah. And so they of course listened to him. Well, they're.

46:04 Yeah, of course. Yeah. Anyway, they're desperate. What are you supposed to do? Yeah. What would you do? Like, what else? What other options are there? Quite honestly, I mean, if you're, if you're, you're. What other options are there? Let me just ask the question before you get into it. What other options are there? Like I know of none I've seen of like I've never. Yeah, I don't know of no other options. I I think that I think when you're dealing with something you can't explain, you try to find any kind of reasoning behind it. Yeah. And like a situation like this, it would make sense that you would reach out to someone who like who has like A1 direct route to God and if they're like, oh hey, by the way, this is for real talk to a fucking Catholic priest.

46:54 He's like pointing them in that direction instead of being like let me figure this out. But he does. And and so that's exactly what they do. They start saying like, yeah, we we need to do something about this. And according to the actual traditional story, the he actually went through a number of exorcisms. It wasn't just one, it was multiple exorcisms. Edward Hughes, who? Was it was deep or something because? Like, like they couldn't, Isn't it? Whatever one of those levels, like he was just like. And he talked on the Ouija board a little bit too much. See apparently. My fear has come to come true.

47:36 That's what they said it. That's what they said was the reason was because he was on the Ouija board that that was, it's like he's 14 years old. See, that's just it. Like sorry, but he he didn't know. He he doesn't 14 years old. You're gonna do, you're not gonna think this through. You're just gonna go do stuff. You're not gonna be an adult about it and go, OK, this probably bad idea. I'm gonna have some intent. And your Aunt Harry? Yeah, I did want to go ooh, let's speak to. Psycho. The murderer. Yeah, of course. You're like, I want some. I I'm in the 1940s. Like, there's not shit going on. Aunt Harry. I have no one to play with. I don't have any kids in the house. Right.

48:18 It's me and Harry and my fucking parents. My parents are fucking squares. Aunt Harriet's cool because she believes in ghosts. So let's do some ghostly shit. Hell yeah. I would definitely be doing that. See, be careful, people. I mean, be careful, of course, but also understand, you know, this is my soapbox. You have power over anything you know. If you believe something's going to overtake you, it will overtake you. Again, but intent, Yeah, intent. Intent in hearts, Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. So where Edward Hughes, who's the Catholic priest they actually connect with, he conducts the exorcism on Roland at the Georgetown University Hospital, which is a Jesuit, Jesuit institution. It's a Catholic institution.

49:00 So during the the exorcism itself, he Roland slipped one of his hands out of a restraint, broke a bed straight, a bed spring from under his mattress and used it as a weapon. So grabs one of those springs, uses that as a weapon, slashing the priests arm and actually results in the exorcism being like ending. You're right, you know, sure, because he has to take care of it. So the family ends up traveling to St. Louis where his Roland's cousin was contacted contacted one of the professors at Saint Louis University, Bishop, who who spoke to William S Bodern, an associate at college Church.

49:48 So together both of the priests actually visited Roland's home with the at his parents place where they said that there was a shaking bed, flying objects, and the boy was speaking in a guttural voice and exhibiting an aversion to anything sacred. Right. So we're kind of crossing off a lot of those things. So bird boater and was actually granted position, permission from the Archbishop to perform another exorcism. So he's already done one. They had to end it quick. Now he's, you know, they've gotten permission to do a second. Take two, take two. So the next exorcism takes place at another hospital in South St. Louis, MO.

50:34 So before the exorcism like began the that ritual, another priest, Walter Halloran, was called as the psychiatric wing of the hospital where he was asked to assist the priest. Bodern. William Van Rue was a third Jesuit priest. So we have like 3 fucking priests in there also there, yeah? At this point I would have an army because I'm like, what the fuck? What the fuck this guy's been like. His arm was slashed by a bed spring. The kids somehow grabbed. Yeah. Halloran actually stated during this scene that words like evil and hell, along with other marks started happening on the child. There's another another level.

51:19 So it's yeah, it's like Pal is written on his book. Oh my God, he has like all these marks that are not. There's no one there, right? Like he's checking all the boxes. Exactly. So allegedly, during the Litany of Saints portion of the exorcism ritual. It's part of the ritual The mattress began to shake. Right? Right. And Roland, the kid broke Halloran's nose during the process. So he broke his nose. And the priest told the a reporter that after the right was over, the anonymous subject of the exorcism went odd to lead a rather ordinary life.

52:00 So he's like, yeah, all this shit happened. He had hell written on his like thing. He broke someone's nose. He, you know, got a fucking bed spring out from underneath his bed, you know hurt someone. And he was, he lived a normal life afterwards because his the guy is like like who he was has never come out. We don't know who he was. He's always been like anonymous. Yeah. So we don't know who the guy was. But the priest is like, yeah, he lived a normal life. After we we're done with it. Oh my God, yeah. Which is, I think it's kind of interesting that they talk about it, because here's the thing, we've never heard of who this person actually is.

52:50 And just like you're probably thinking right now, there's so many fucking questions that I have. So many questions, yeah. And everyone's had like, you know, The Exorcist came out, which that book was based off of Sounds. Very like The Exorcist, right? Made a lot of money. The book made a bunch. Of money you go, Yeah. See my little skeptical hats coming on. Well, it's just because it's so because there's only question, yeah. And you don't have anyone to ask them to. You can't be like, oh, it's, you know, Josh, you know, whatever down the street. We've talked to him. He said it happened right. Now he works in like, yeah, now he works as like a fucking welder.

53:34 And he lives a totally normal life. That's right, Josh. I'm going to hear from your perspective. Well, like you and I, we have questions. Thomas B Allen wants to investigate this. He has questions. So he actually wrote a book called in 1993 called Possessed the True Story of an Exorcism. And what he found was the expert said that Robbie was just a deeply disturbed boy and there was nothing supernatural about him. So another author, Mark opposite, opposite Nick questioned many of those supernatural stories and he's he's proposing that like Roland Dole was just a spoiled, disturbed bully who threw deliberate tantrums to get attention or to get out of school.

54:25 So he also said that he just mimicked Latin words that he had heard. Now, ultimately, during the investigation, this guy was like going through He found that the exorcism did not take place at 3210 Bunker Hill Rd. And Mount Rainier MD. Like the the writings had suggested. He said that the boy never had even lived in Mount Rainier. So like, once again, it's like okay. Well, the story's off, the story's off. Period. OK, the boys home was in Cottage City, MD. Much of A commonly accepted information about those stories actually based on hearsay. It's not documented and it was never really fact checked. OK, there is no evidence that Father E Albert Hughes visited the boys home and admitted him to Georgetown Hospital. There's no evidence that he had requested the boy be restrained like they say that he was, that there was ever even an exorcism that occurred at Georgetown Hospital or that that he was injured by a boy during an exorcism or even at anytime on his arm.

55:41 So there is a lot of evidence refuting the claims that, like after the exorcism was done or during that time, that Father Hughes had suffered an emotional breakdown, which is like one of the things that they believed had happened and disappeared from from that community. A lot of this is just speculation, right? Psychiatrists look at a lot of the symptoms that they talk about. Roland Dough like experiencing, and they're like he has mental illness. To priests, it's a case of demonic possession. Right to to like people like directors and producers like, oh, we can make a movie out of this and make a lot of money, but in reality, you know the people who are who are doing this, they are seeing what they were trained to see. You want to believe that possessions occurring, it's going to occur, right?

56:38 Is that necessarily the case? I mean, I don't know. I I think so. Like he also spoke to kids who knew the kid, the person who this happened. To the person that's researching it, spoke to people that knew the guy that got possessed. And neighbors and childhood friends of the boy he actually has spoken to and they. And he concluded that the boy had been a very clever trickster who had pulled pranks to frighten his mother and to fool children in the neighborhood. OK, now I am having so many mixed I know thoughts. I think like and they talk about tantrums and like trances and moved furniture, hold objects, automatic writing, superficial scratches.

57:26 They're just the kinds of things that someone at Roland's age would do because he's hormonal and frustrating. So then, so then the question that I keeps coming back to my head is what about the hell, the word on his body? What was the word? Hell. Yep. Hell yeah. So. Then you go was So is that just like sensationalized by someone? Was that like, well, it? Probably just happened in front of my face, but I saw it on his chest. Or you know what I mean? Like, right. Yeah. Like, is this actually for real? Is this something or is it? I mean, here's the thing. You have skeptics who are going to refute it. Of course you have like religious people who are going to say this is proof that you know God exists and devil the devil exists and like we there's spiritual warfare actually happening.

58:19 Of course I think he could probably take it, like there's the answer is probably somewhere in between. But right. I didn't realize that there are quite a few people who actually knew who this kid was and was like, yeah, yeah, no, he's an asshole of a kid. So he knew who he was, that he ever talked to him. I don't think he, I mean it doesn't say that he spoke to him. That would be a great answer. And like what they say is like this. At least what I've seen is like this person doesn't necessarily want to talk about it. They keep going with their lives. Fair enough. But I'm sorry if he had, OK, I think from both sides, like if you were a Dick when you were a 14 year old, like you wouldn't want to talk about it. But if you weren't fair enough, like and that was actually a legitimate thing that happened to you, you're like, that was like 3 weeks of my life.

59:05 I've done a lot more. I'm more. Than that. More than that, I don't want to talk about it anymore, you know, which I so I could kind of see how that goes. I I don't know. Well, I guess the jury's out on that. Yeah, jury's out, so jury's out. There's another exorcism that happened a little bit more recently that I had never heard of, and it was. It's called the Tan Tanaku exorcism. So ultimately 1989 Romania, that's where it takes place. What you need to know is that Romania used to be a socialist country and go figure you know socialist country fell. That's kind of what happens.

59:47 It was also atheist and since the fall, the fall of of the of socialism, there was no longer persecution against Catholics and Christians which. In Romania? And what happens when people are told that they can't do something, they do it. They want to do it even more like, oh, you're telling me I can't be a Christian, I can't be a Catholic? Yeah, I know. I want to be anymore. That's what I want to be. Yeah, exactly like, OK, mom and dad. So religion becomes incredibly popular after the the fall of socialist Romania and there's a huge surge of Christian monasticism. Christian monasticism is like think like nuns and like people who devote their life to Christ and stuff like the Catholic version of of convents and monasteries, so in the countryside.

1:00:42 So the hot thing was to do was to grab your friend and join a convent or a monastery. Fast forward to January 20, 2523. Year old Marcisia moves to the Tanaku monastery at at the the urging of her of her friend. So at that young age she'd actually seen some real shit. She was only 23 years old and her family was actually pretty dysfunctional. She actually found her father after he had committed suicide. She and her brother had grown up in an orphanage because of that, and when she was 19, she worked as a nanny in Germany and then for another family in Romania.

1:01:27 A friend of hers from this orphanage was like, yeah, come to this monastery and be a nun with me. Like, what else are you going to do right now? There's some speculation Word on the street or like in the stories that I've read about her, her father had sexually abused her. She did not want to be seen as a sexual object. She would always wear very baggy clothes. So being a nun, A cloistered nun, not having to have sexual, you know, intimacy with a man or with anyone with something, that was very appealing to her. So of course she would seek out and become a nun. So soon after becoming a nun, she actually starts giggling during mass okay. And by April her mental state deteriorates and doctors at the local psychiatric hospital in Romania diagnosed her as having schizophrenia.

1:02:24 Which is a very common thing that happens to people who have been, who have one gone through trauma like children who have gone through a ton of trauma and who have had sexual like you know, sexual trauma. It's very very common unfortunately. So after two week treatment they released her into the care of the monastery. So her friends also say that she never exhibited any other signs of mental illness. When she came back her brother said that he was with her. When he he said that, he saw once again Satan go into her after the fact and said she suffered demonic possession. So we're going to talk about this dude. I'm not even going to call him Father anything because he was never an ordained fucking, you know, priest. We're going to call him Daniel, Daniel the fucking Dick. Okay.

1:03:15 He's a 29 year old priest of this monastery. Before becoming a man of the cloth, he was a football player in a local like town, his own hometown. And he began following religious studies at the at the university. And after he could not secure admission to another university, the University of Bucharest, he which is where he wanted to study sports or law which is, yeah exactly what you want your fucking priest to be studying. He he's like, OK, what am I going to do? Well, a year later a businessman from his hometown reaches out to him and recruits him and says, hey, look, there's this monastery. Let's try building it near the hills of the city. There's like money to be made.

1:04:05 So he was ordained by the local Bishop who expected that he would continue his studies. So that's the only reason he was even ordained to begin with. He was like, yeah, I'm not going to continue my studies actually. And he gave up his university and education to devote himself to running this monastery. This is not common practice and it's not okay. The dude was like really ignoring the normal steps that you would take to become a priest, like or like actually ordained that you'd have to. You have to finish school, You have to do all these things. The guy has 0 credentials and he's starting this monastery okay and he has a beard as bright as lava. I'm not kidding you like, you see pictures of this dude, It's like fucking.

1:04:48 He wears all black, bright red beard, bright red hair. You're like, that cannot be natural. But it is. Yeah, like he's he's a fucking yeah, totally. So the archdiocese hears about him and they're like, you cannot start this community, you cannot start this monastery. This is not kosher. You do not have our blessing. And he's like it's like already dead already did it. Look at these devout lady nuns who all love me because they love my fucking red beard and shit. They will do whatever I want them to do. So go figure. Daniel Redbeard sees our girl who's having these mental decision like issues and says easy, easy prank, right?

1:05:32 Possession. She's possessed by the devil. And not not just like any possession. Possession by the devil himself. Lucifer, right? He'd say. Like later on, like after the fact, he would say that you can't take the devil out of people with pills. Take the devil out of people with pills. Oh, got it. I understand. Yeah. So in other words, I can do it because I'm a man of the cloth, but you can't do it with your shrinkness and your medication. Yeah. It's not schizophrenia. Yeah, it's the devil. You shouldn't be taking these fucking. Yeah.

1:06:13 You can't take the devil out of people with a pill. Yeah, it's like extreme. It's. And it's he's an extremist, right. And so our girl was, rightly so. He's like, you know, she needs an exorcism. They come in, grab her like you need an exorcism. And rightly so. She's like, no, I don't want an exorcism. I'm not going to have an exorcism. So she starts, like, throwing up like herself about and starts hurting herself because they're trying to, you know, restrain her. So like, oh, she's gonna be a harm for herself. She is possessed. She is possessed. Yeah, this is like crazy. This is crazy. A crazy reactions. Like, no, you guys are coming, literally cornering her and saying you shouldn't be taking like she's been diagnosed just schizophrenic. OK, God.

1:07:00 So the nuns bound her feet and hands and locked her in her room while they made some like she did. They did some like lame church things, but they left her alone a few days later. A few days later, they straight up chained her to a cross and carried her into the church so that they could anoint her. OK. Gross. Let's just like say this has not this was not okayed by an Archbishop. She's not exhibiting all of those, you know, just continues that fucking boils my blood. She's been diagnosed as schizophrenic and yet they're still doing this, right?

1:07:43 So according. To He's still doing it, He's still doing it well. And the nuns, they're all doing it. They'll do whatever they want, whatever he wants them to. Do them to do. Yeah, sure. So according to one of the sisters, they said that if she hadn't, if our girl hadn't been restrained, that she could have either killed herself or killed someone else. That's why they had to train her to a fucking cross. So she said that that our girl arena actually knew that she was possessed by evil spirits because she was begging us to tie her up. So she knew she wanted us to tie her up.

1:08:26 Her wrists and her forehead were then anointed with holy oil, and then she was kept in it in the church for three days. They put a towel to her mouth to stop her from cursing. So they put one inside of her mouth and they prayed to cast out the devil as they wet their her lips with holy water. Yeah. So she was then moved from her room and united. And when she was, according to that fucking Daniel, the Dick, she was cured. She was cured. Everything was good. Yeah. So we gave her bread and tea, and then she fainted. After eating.

1:09:07 The nuns were unable to wake her up and they checked her pulse and she she was feeling weak. Oh, I don't know. Maybe because she had been like, like, left alone and unable to move or do anything for fucking a week or so. So they called an ambulance. And while in the ambulance, she was administered 6 doses of adrenaline. 6 doses. By the time she reached the hospital, she was dead. Yeah. So the police were actually notified by the doctors at the hospital and they actually noted like, she had marks on her wrist. This is not normal. She's 23 years old and the 2005 autopsy actually claimed that she had died of dehydration, exhaustion and lack of oxygen. No, Satan took it out of her.

1:09:51 Yeah. Yeah. No, no, it was definitely Satan. Satan. So Daniel, that fucking fake priest, and those four nuns who helped him were actually charged with murder, thank God, in Romania. Yeah, and depriving a person of of liberty, so. Yeah, that's called kidnapping. They actually tried getting the priest with a life sentence, but he was sentenced in 2007 with 14 years in prison, while those four nuns were sentenced between 5:00 and eight years each. So many of the people in that courtroom, you know, that Daniel fucking Red Beard, like he had a huge following.

1:10:38 So they were there to support him. Exactly. Exactly. And the Quarter of Appeals did reduce his sentence to seven years. And he was freed from parole and November 2011, after serving just 2/3 of his punishment. Yeah. Has he started another cult? That's a great question. I wonder where he is. I mean, no matter what, we should just, like, ostracize him and yell shame every fucking time you see him. Like, fuck you, motherfucker. But our girl, they say that she was lowered into her grave during her funeral. Claps of Thunder were heard and fucking Daniel was like, Oh yeah, the will of God has been done.

1:11:22 This is like proof. Thanking me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is we did the right thing. So ultimately the Romanian Orthodox Church closed down the monastery and they had Daniel defrocked. So he was, he's no longer allowed to serve as an ordained priest. So there was the coroner who eventually says I was part of the team who handled the they exhumed her body and it was concluded that the woman died, actually, of overdose, of adrenaline, he said. I don't know why the judges did not take that into account, that it wasn't just dehydration and stuff. And he said that my biggest mistake was that I called the, excuse me, the father fucking Daniel, the Deck said.

1:12:08 My biggest mistake was that I called the ambulance when I saw that she was not moving. I think she died because the medics who came with the ambulance tried to resuscitate her by giving her too much adrenaline. The medics killed her. It wasn't me. No, I had nothing to do with it. No, she would be totally fine if it weren't for the. The medics in their adrenaline, yeah. So in that town, Tanaka, like they a lot of people still think that she was possessed instead of mentally ill, although she had been diagnosed as schizophrenic and that that Daniel had actually helped her at that point. I think that they like people are like, Oh well, they took her to the hospital alive.

1:12:52 The medics were the ones who, you know, she was still alive when she left here. They killed her and there was actually a movie in 2012 exactly the called Beyond the Hills that was based on on this story. And the Crucifixion also in 2017 was also based on on the story. I mean look like I think there are genuine cases. Potentially of exorcism. I do think that unfortunately often times people, especially back in like in the medieval ages, like they do confuse mental illness with. Or sure, yeah.

1:13:36 And like you said, sometimes they can be together. Yeah, absolutely. But they can be together. I I think that one taking into account persons, free will and the fact that every single one of us have the ability to rise above and to choose to seek out mental help like there are other. There are other cases that I could have taken, like exorcism cases, but like the case of like Annalise, like that the exorcism Emily Rose was based off of, like that was clearly she was very mentally unwell, she was very mentally ill And I think oftentimes people take advantage of mentally ill folks and women mainly, mainly women, right?

1:14:19 And these women die at the because they're poor at the hands of people who want to do sadistic shit in the name of religion. It's unfortunate. I know. Wow. So insanity. Yeah. You know, like like you said, like, I think there's some legit. Things and whether those two have some legit in stuff in them, I mean who know who's to say. But yeah, I think there, I think there's some, there's something there, there's something there. But like, does it have to? Is it always the answer to try to like? Right. I think the answers now right. So I would agree, mental mental health is a very important thing, exactly that we need to keep and we know more about. So we need to keep that at the forefront of our minds. Yes, it's not all about Satan.

1:15:09 No, it's not. It's not all those Satan's fucking. Punk rock? Not today. Satan. Yeah, not today, Satan. Period. Thanks for the episode. Yeah, thank you. And it's been great looking at you this entire time because you look so cute. So we both look so cute. OK all. Right. We'll talk to you soon. See you later.