Betty and Barney Hill - The Alien Abduction

0:00 If you're tuned in now, you are listening to The Bizarre, a FA little place where we talk about the strange, the unusual, the unknown in all things bizarre. A F I'm Alicia, your Hostess for today's episode. As always, we ask that you keep an open mind, keep a skeptical ear, but keep on listening to those facts as we take you on our newest journey, the Betty and Barney Hill Incident. Well, hello my cohost with the most Kevin. How are you darling?

1:00 I'm doing. Great, babe. How are you? I'm good. You know, you look good in green. Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank you. I was actually, I was a little nervous about wearing this green. I'm like, this can be too much. There's no such thing. No. Such thing as you look very dapper. Do I? Yes. I look like, what's the guy from that TV show? Tam Jon Hamm. What's that movie? Oh, my gosh. From Mad Men. Yes. Yes, you do. You are. You could be in that advertisement business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'd be there making the Manhattan and talking to a person. Yeah. So when we must be talking about 50 Sixties stuff, We are. Yeah, we are talking about something that occurred in, you know, the way back when.

1:49 Machine. Not way back. But since we have to go back in time, I thought we might as well dress the part right? Like if we're gonna fit in. Yeah, we can't be. We can't have cell phones, we can't have joggers on. Exactly curl. Necklace, Mrs. Cleaver? Yes, exactly what I was going for. Yeah, so when was like the first time that you heard about alien abduction like or what do you think of when you hear alien abduction like basics? Basics, yeah. What happens? The alien ship with the beam of light lifting the person up into the. Spaceship, You know, they're all kind of like, sprawled out, like, just letting it, like, pick you up. And then necessarily, anal probing. Exactly.

2:45 You're like a lip doll or something. Oh, I think of anal probing. Probing of some sort? No, of course you think of that. That's like it's a violation, right? Right. You think of a violation. Totally violation. Yeah, yeah. It's not like they're asking you questions or saying trying to get to know you. No, they are like. Poking your ass. Yeah, literally. Quite literally. OK, so we're actually going to talk today about now they call it the Betty and Barney Hill or the Hill incident.

3:27 Yeah. And. And it's also called, like, the Zeta Reticuli incident. It has multiple names, all the same thing that we're going to talk about today. And this is like a classic, a literal classic of alien abduction. Well, this. Story connects to many other stories, which is why it is so completely plausible, yes. When we talked about Area 51 and the area underneath there where they were storing all the shenanigans, yes, Betty and Barney Hill came up because it can. It all connected with. J Rod and everything.

4:09 Yeah, it's all connected. There's. All connected. Well, this, yeah, this story is really the story that framed the alien abduction scenario that you just spoke of. That's that is exactly what we're going to get down to. And this this had happened before the stories came out right before we had Unsolved Mysteries and gosh, like podcasts and and and we knew about J Rod. This this happened before all of that and these people were normal people. They weren't like. Yeah, they weren't. Pain grabbers or social media influencers, Yes. Or weirdos standing on the side of the road.

4:49 Like like I married my cousin and I also, I also got picked up by an alien. It's like, OK, Jethro, you did not get picked up by an alien. No alien would want you unless it were to like like a curiosity like experiment. You're weird. Let. Me look at you like you're really inbred. What? But these people were really normal. So, Okay, in order for us to actually, like, really go back, I already spoke of it. But we we do need to go back in time. Thank God we're wearing what we are wearing. We're going to go back to September 19th, 1961, the early 60s. Now we have, it's a couple Betty and Barney Hill or Barney and Betty Hill.

5:35 And they had just gotten married, but this was in the early 60s, so I can't even believe that this was a thing. But it was a thing. Interracial couples were rare, right? I mean, gosh, if you were Italian and Irish families would have issues with you getting being married or whatever. Betty and Barney Hill were an interracial couple. Betty was white, Barney was black, and they were also incredibly involved. Barney was a postal worker and he was incredibly involved in the civil rights movement. Of course, you know, he had, you know, he was. So Betty was a social worker and they were both members of the Unitarian Church, Okay, very active in the NW, AA, CP and actually Barney even sat on the local board of the US Commission on Civil Rights.

6:28 So he was incredibly, incredibly active in the civil rights movement. They both were very strange to be an interracial couple, but they were really paving the way. And they believed, you know, love has a way. They loved each other. Want to get together. Love was love. Yeah. Love. Love is love is. Love is. Love is. Love is love is love. Yes, absolutely. So back to September 19th, 1961, the Hills. Betty and Barney are newly the hills, OK. They are on their honeymoon and they're actually driving back from Portsmouth to just in the, you know, wilderness or like in the sticks. What state is is Portsmouth.

7:12 They were in. They actually had a it was a vacation in Niagara Falls. Oh, and Montreal. So they were. Up in Canada, yes, they're coming back. OK, OK. And they actually, you know, this is, this is what their story is, OK, of events. So Betty looks up in the sky. They're in the middle of nowhere, Podunk, dark. It's like 10:00 PM, 10:30 PM ish. They look up in the sky and Betty sees what she thought was a shooting star. She's like, OK, that's a shooting star, But it's moving erratically.

7:53 It's not like descending or going straight. It's moving in different directions. OK. So she she's like, OK, that's kind of weird. But, you know, maybe you just don't think about it. So Barney's driving and she's saying this, and what would you do if we were in a car together? And I'm like, that's weird. Like, this is happening. Like, you're probably seeing things, right? Like, right. You wouldn't necessarily think. No, I, yeah. You'd kind of blow it off a little bit, be like, OK, yeah. Sure. What happened? I mean, I probably kind of look and go, yeah, yeah, so it's moving. It's moving around. And she thought, OK, falling star, but it's moving up OK. That doesn't really work.

8:38 And it kept on growing bigger and brighter and small. So it was like changing in size. And she's like, Barney, we need to stop the car. There's something up. We need to take a closer look. He's like, well, come on, I'm on them in the middle of nowhere. Where the hell am I going to pull over? So he finds an area to actually pull over, and they have this dog and we'll have it in the show notes. It's like a Wiener dog, a longhaired Wiener dog called Delsy. So, like, OK, fine, we have to walk the dog anyway, so we'll stop in this, like, picnic area. So they stop. Pitch black. They in the middle of nowhere Must be pitch black. It's pitch black. It's like 10. Yeah, it's in the it's 1961. We don't have probably the lights that we have today, right? It's really dark.

9:21 You know, you're not just going to stop on the side of the road, you have to wait for a certain area. So he pulls over. They end up being at a Picnic point, scenic point just South of Twin Mountain. Betty has her binoculars because they they were on their little honey on. Niagara Falls, yeah, Yeah. So she looks and she's like this is definitely not which she already thought. This is not a shooting star, it's oddly shaped and it has multi colored lights on it so and it's traveling across the face of the moon. So like it's going past the face of the moon and she's like maybe this is a flying saucer because in the in in her past she's like she and her sister claim to have seen a flying saucer.

10:14 Were there comic books about some flying saucers and stuff? Yes, definitely sure. So maybe that was part of it. But this had multi color lights. Nothing like that was flying in the air erratically like that at that time in 1961. Do you have any idea? Do you know when she saw, when she was, when she was looking at this thing? Do you? Did it look like it was close or did it look like it was like moon distance, like or could she like a plane Like do you know, she was getting closer, so she saw it like getting bigger. And I'm assuming if it's getting bigger, it's getting closer to you.

10:57 Like if you're seeing a a plane in the air, it's bigger. If it's closer to where you're standing, right. It's like the vantage point. Yeah. I don't think that, you know, I think that she just saw it like as a passenger and was just looking up, like, what the heck is this? It was. Moving so weird. She's like some. This does not compute. Yeah. And she didn't have the opportunity because they were moving in a car to actually inspect it. Right. Which is why they needed to stop at the scenic point. Yeah. Barney's like, yeah, right, This is a commercial flight, like airliner. Like, you're crazy. You need to go to bed, okay. Chillax Betty. Yeah, Betty, like chill. Maybe, maybe had a couple too many, like Manhattans or whatever.

11:41 But he looks through the binoculars and he's like, oh, I'm wrong, This is not a plane. So they continue driving down this road and and so here's the thing, if you see something like this, are you gonna try following it? No, no, me neither. No, no way. Especially. Yeah. No. No way. No. Yeah. I mean why you're asking for trouble at this point. Well, especially if you don't know what it is, absolutely. I was like, like, OK, best case scenario, it's maybe like, you know, someone's fucking around with like a weather balloon or something, I don't know. But like, or it's a government plane. That's like, you know, they're doing testing on either in the world, nowhere.

12:35 No, bueno like you should not be part of that. Absolutely not. Well, they do. They they're like, what is this? Let's go and continue on this isolated road, right. They're not on the highway anymore. Let's go on this isolated Rd. They're trying to follow this thing. You're trying to file it and it's coming closer to them. OK? God, I would be like, what is wrong? Yeah. No. OK, Yeah. What's wrong with them? Oh, well, I think, I think they were trying to get their jollies by no seeing this. So if they see as they're getting closer to this aircraft, it's getting closer to them and it's starting to descend in the air, Okay, it's descending towards their, their car.

13:20 There's nothing else around. They're on this like, you know, dirt road and it's silent. You can't hear anything. There's no motor, there's no, there's like there's no fan, nothing like no propellers. They can't hear an engine. It's completely silent and completely pitch black. Oh, my God. Yeah. And so it's hovering about 80 to 100 feet above their car. OK, It's a 1957 Chevy Bel Air. I know you weren't wondering. Yeah. Because I'm such a gear head, yeah. So it like they're looking at this and if they can't see anything but this aircraft, right, so. Barney.

14:07 Meaning it's that big. It's so huge, there's nothing else they can see. And like in the horizon, yeah, it's like right in front of their car. And Barney says later he's like, it kind of looks like a it looks like a pancake. So once again, like that flying saucer look. So he has a gun in his pocket. Barney. Barney, what are you gonna do? Yeah, right. You just start. Silent hovering monstrosity. You're gonna shoot it with your pistol? What the fuck, Barney? Barney. No, no, that's an act of aggression. Yes, exactly.

14:50 They're gonna do something to you. So he's like, he gets closer to it and of course, you know that, like macho, like, think I'm going to take care of this, but. Especially just got married with his wife. So he's like, let me show you I'm a real man. I'm going to for sure show you I can take care of my lady. You know, like Betty. Just just you stay like a little lady in the car. We're progressive. We're progressive. But I'll take care of this. I'll be your Prince Charming, Barney. So Barney goes towards the fucking thing. Which the amount of balls it takes. I mean, no way. No way.

15:31 Yeah, no way. Yeah. So he's going towards that grat, like has his pistol and he sees in the craft that there are multiple humanoid figures in there and he's like, well, OK, that's kind. That's kind of weird. It's like one of the windows he looks and like there's humanoid figures, like it looks like a human doesn't look like a BLOB or whatever, and they're walking around, he said. One of them starts looking straight at at Barney and just stares at him and he has his, his gun or whatever, and it's talking to him telepathically, OK? It looks straight at him and it's like, stay where you are and keep on looking like at us.

16:25 Like he's hearing this in his head. Yeah. What the actual F? Can you imagine if you could just like you see, like you could just hear that in your head. Do you mind how weird that would be? And there are so many like when it comes to when it comes to this, what I found a lot of times like with weird phenomenon, people will hear ESP. Or like, they won't question things as much when you're in the thick of a situation like, Oh yeah, they just communicated with me. Like they innately somehow know that that's what's happening instead of being like, well, wait, how the fuck are you talking to me like?

17:11 Right, because it probably seems just so. I don't know, real is probably the wrong word, but natural or? Yeah. Like intentional. Like, I'm not going to question it because yeah, it's just like you're so in tune with it or something, right? Yeah, I think, I I think that that's part of it. I also think that it's like that the idea of like a phenomenon that's so like your head. You can't really wrap your head around this shit. No, you've never seen anything like this in your. Entire life? No. And it's like, well, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. But it does. It does make me think like why did he not question? Like what is the intention behind this being that's telling me this and why am I listening to it? OK, I'll tell you why.

17:53 Tell me. Those bitches went and followed that thing, not even knowing what it was. So he's like, I'm into this, clearly. Like, you didn't tell me to stand here. Look at you. Fine. Yeah, you're right. He was looking for it. He was looking for it, but like, I would just be like terrified. I probably peeing my pants. Like there's I would be so scared. Like just keep on looking and stay where you are. Maybe I'd faint. I don't know. I I I just, I think that I wouldn't. I think this. Probably just hit like I would be like, just shot in shock.

18:37 You're right. You're like, paralyzed with like what? I do. What is happening? Yeah, paralyzed in that shock. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. You can't really be fearful of it because you don't really know what the fuck it is that you're looking at. And remember, this is 1961. We don't have all these stories that have happened, like around like Skinwalker Ranch and stuff like that. We don't have like a history of these stories that are widely told. Right. So exactly a lot of these things that I'm talking about today, you this is the first time they've been said like people like, oh I've, I was abducted. Oh, they telepathically communicated with me like they didn't say bleep blop blop. You know, like exactly.

19:19 You know, there were like a lot of this. It set the stage for future abductions. Yeah, so they're they look at it. He sees as he's looking at these people like, OK, just keep on looking. He sees that they're wearing like these glossy black uniforms, red or black caps on. And then there are red lights on what he says, like our like bat wing fins. I don't know. And. And there's that started to like come out. Oh yeah, of the actual craft. So like these there are lights that like kind of retract count.

20:00 And you know, he said that. Oh, and okay. So here's another thing this had happened to them. And he actually did. This whole story you can find on the National Investigations Committee on aerial phenomenon. Which is NICAP. So when he was telling the stories, like, I don't know exactly what they were, but they weren't human. Whatever they were, they looked human. Yeah, head, maybe shoulders. But yeah, maybe oddly shapes or something of that, Something like that. And like, this is where their story kind of gets a little fuzzy.

20:45 OKOK, so it's almost like they remember, like a fuzzy image of what they saw it like it was almost as if it were more of a dream rather than reality, where they could sit there and like recall every single thing. So that had happened. That's all they remember. They are arriving, they're coming back home. They're arriving home at dawn. OK. Wait. So suddenly? Wait, Hold us back up? Yeah, so we we have them. Him getting this, this transmission of voices, Yes, he's staring at them.

21:26 Staring at them things you see some kind of like. Humanoid shape, yeah. Things just now starting to get a little fuzzy and the next thing he knows he is a driving home at at dawn. Yep. Yeah. Or dusk. No. Done. Done at done. Yeah. So this so this was like 10:30. So now it's suddenly like, what, at 6:00 in the morning? Something? Yes. Yeah, he's about 6, just driving 7. He's just driving and arriving home. Yep, like nothing happened. Oh my God. OK, OK, right. Wow, so that's the thing. They're arriving home and they both are like, huh, We have like some.

22:13 They both like, feel like some weird sensations and things that they can't really explain. For instance, Betty, they had luggage because they were just on their. Honeymoon. Honeymoon. Yeah, so Betty insisted that they keep their luggage near the back door rather than like in the main part of the house. So they didn't. She did not want them to be put in the main part of the house, which was kind of weird. Wait, wait, wait. So you said when they got home, Yeah, they're like unpacking. Uh. Huh. And she wants her luggage to stay at the front door. Yeah, at the like at like at the back door of the house rather than inside, like the living room. She didn't want the the luggage, which she didn't was strange. Inside the house, like in the main part of the house, Yeah, the house.

23:00 Or in there, you know when you to the. Same Barney. Just leave it. Leave it. Yeah, leave it here. It's like okay. That's kind of weird. Like normally we would unpack it or whatever, but that was a little strange off okay? That's off their watches that they both are wearing watches because nobody had cell phones in the 1960s, right? So everyone were wristwatch, which, you know, a lot of those watches you would, you know, wind up or whatever, And maybe they'd have like a battery. They'd have a battery in them stopped working. Both of their watches stopped working. They were dead. Completely dead. What did they say? The same time? Another thing. They look at the binoculars that they remember. Betty was staring at that.

23:43 Yeah, yeah. The leather strap on the binoculars was torn. Like it? It broken half, broken half. And he's like, I can't even remember it tearing at all. Like, I don't recall because Betty had, it had the binoculars. It was intact that point. They don't remember it tearing. So, OK, this list of like, weird shit is growing. He was wearing his best dress shoes once again. You know, back in the day you typically would have, like, we all have a nice pair of shoes, but like, then like having a really nice pair of dress shoes, you'd take good care of them. Well made. They are expensive.

24:25 His best dress shoes were scraped. Now this is important because he was impeccable about his dress shoes. These dress shoes were not scraped, he remembers. They had just gotten back from the honeymoon, right? Sure, they had just gotten married. These things were shined up into the 9:00. Driving home, why would they be scraped? Yeah, why were they, why would they be scraped? Like, you know, it's not like he was doing anything physical like they were. They were just driving back home. Another thing that Barney said was happening to him, he got home and he was like, he had this, like, impulse that he needed to go to the bathroom and he needed to look at his private parts at his genitals. And he did not know why, but he had to inspect them and, like, make sure everything was OK and he didn't find anything unusual. And like, that's a very strange thing if you have to go to the bathroom.

25:19 Like why would you be like I need to? Make sure nothing's wrong. Like, what would make you think that? Exactly. Exactly. He's like, this is another impulse that I don't understand why, but it's like this really strong, you know, impulse or I I need to look and make sure everything's OK. They both took really long showers when they got home to remove any contamination that they had from seeing that aircraft. And then another thing that they did as soon as they got home was they drew pictures after the showers. They both took really long showers, you know, washed up. They drew what they had seen, images of what they had seen, what they remember seeing. So they're back.

26:07 They took a shower, they're driving, and they know something weird had happened. And they're So what? What do you do if something strange happens? You're like, like, you and I have had some weird encounters, whether it's, like with people or, like situations. And you're like, did this really happen? Or like, am I remembering this correctly? Am I crazy? Exactly. Yeah. So they're having that conversation. What happened? They're trying to recall, OK, we're we were driving home. We had our, you know, our honeymoon. We're driving home. We're in the middle of nowhere. We see this air, this craft. Then what happened?

26:49 She doesn't remember. They can't remember anything, anything after they saw that UFO. And like between then and when they were, they both remember the same thing when that they're arriving home, but they can't remember what happened to those. Kind of come to consciousness at the same point, seemingly. Seemingly, but they're trying to like retrace all their steps. Did they? Do we know what they drew? We do. They're so they're drawing those pictures and we have it. Have them in the show notes all the pictures that they have, Betty, after this incident, you know, because both of them thought they were going crazy. So they're trying to recall everything. They knew something weird had happened. So they start like trying to draw things, trying to like, you know, write down like, OK, this is what this is what I remember happening.

27:43 They both separately did so, like, wrote their own thing. Then they got together and like, OK, this is what I remember. What do you remember? And like, so they're trying to, like, match up stories and like, the stories are matching up up until the point where they kind of, like, lose consciousness. Things get a little bit fuzzy. Like, we can't really recall exactly what happened, but what they do remember, like when they see the UFO as as they're on the way home, they remember like around the time of seeing the UFO itself and like getting closer. They remember buzzing sounds in their heads. They recall like a in their head and then that's when everything goes blank. So they both recall the sound too interesting.

28:26 But once that buzzing sound happened, their memories are, like, fragmented, piecemeal. So both of them are exhausted. You would think they'd be like, what the fuck happened? Like, let's have a conversation, Let's talk about it. Right now they're exhausted. They need to go to sleep. So they sleep for a few hours. And Betty wakes up and placed the clothes that she was actually wearing during the drive into her closet. And then she had recalled that the dress that she was wearing was torn at the hem into the zipper and the and the lining was also torn. OK. So when she's taking it off, this is what she's realizing? You mean, OK, this same dress she like, goes back to to grab them because she's like, oh, maybe I was recalling that incorrectly.

29:16 And she like, looks and it's like, no, that's definitely fucking torn. She sees, like, this pinkish powder that's on the dress that she didn't see before. And so she just, like, took the dress, hung it outside on her clothesline, and the powder, like, eventually blew away. The dress was damaged. It was incredibly damaged. She actually looks at it and she's like, well, I'm never going to be able to wear this again. So I'm just going to throw it away. And she's like, wait a second, no, I shouldn't. Something's telling me I should not throw this away. There's something up with this fucking dress. But like the that initial impulse that she had, like, I'm never going to be able to wear this again. I just need to throw away this piece of shit dress like I loved this dress. But I'm never gonna be able to wear it again because it's so damaged.

30:09 They seem like they're just like, out of it. She's like, I might as well throw it away instead of thinking, oh maybe this is like tied to the, yeah, UFO shit that we went through. Like super out of it. Yeah, like kind of just like going through the motions. So Betty, that dress which? Clearly they were, by the way, because when they were driving home and we suddenly they wake up and they're arriving at home, so clearly. They were driving at some point when they weren't even, for lack of a better word, conscious. Exactly. That's exactly. I mean it's it's almost like, you know, when you're driving like from a place that you typically drive from. Just on autopilot, yes. Yeah, it seems like they were on autopilot, like, for a while.

30:52 Wow. So she throws away the dress. She's like, no, I have to grab it. So she gets it out of the trash and holds on to it and she hangs back up up in her closet. And actually I have an image of the dress. So here's the dress itself that she was wearing. Wait, what? Is that the front of the dress? That's the front of the dress. Is that a hole? Yeah, it's a total hole. Is that the lining? Yeah, you can see through the lining, which does this dress. Now, of course, a talent. A lot of the vintage dresses, all kind of a lot of vintage dresses have lining on the inside of them.

31:33 So it's like the top layer has a big hole. A huge hole. I don't know, 6 inches, maybe 7 inches? And in the center of the chest, underneath is perfectly intact, like silk lining and what? I mean, it's like a blast hole. It looks like it's like a blast, but. It didn't go all the way through, no, it only like. The top layer, yeah. And if you look like towards like below the arm of the dress, it looks like there's like a little. Kind of jagged, yeah. It's like a jagged edge, which you know, could be the edge that they were talking about in the back, the like the back, like near the zipper.

32:20 I wonder if that's where that is. But this is the best picture. It's actually, and we have it in our show notes, but the best picture of Betty's dress now, back in the day in the 1960s, nineteen 50s, people would have entire outfits planned after their wedding. So they'd have a wedding like, you'd have your wedding dress and then you'd have you're going like on your honeymoon afterwards dress and you would have like all these, like, special occasion outfits, right. So that was probably, I know, I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that was one of her nicer dresses that she was wearing, right. And like what? You're gonna just tear tear an entire hole in the center of the chest, which is just that first like layer of printed fabric. It may mean zero makes.

33:08 Zeros. Especially if. I mean, if it was all the way through, you'd go, OK, whatever, but that bottom layer looked completely intact. It was just the strangest looking thing. So weird. Weird. And thank God she kept it, kept that dress. Absolutely, yeah. She almost threw it away. Just not thinking cuz she was like in, I don't know, zombie mode. Dresses room and throw away. Yeah yeah go do next thing eat something. So it felt like so like throughout the years multiple laboratories actually, you know, took samples and stuff from the from the dress and did forensic analysis is on them, which we'll talk about later. But another thing that they found was that they were there were shiny circles on the car's trunk, like circles that were like connecting on the car's trunk okay that were not there the previous day, right, because why would they be there? There's like no reason for them to have been there. So they saw these like circles and you know, Betty and Barney knew that something was up.

34:20 They knew they saw like a an alien or a UFO. They still recall that much. So they grabbed a compass and they're trying to go through a scientific method to to really describe like what did we see? How can we like you know be as precise and scientifically like minded when when trying to almost debunk ourselves. So they grabbed this compass and they're like, OK, anytime we move the compass close to those like, circle spots on the trunk, it starts moving erratically and it's like whirling around like going insane, like which a compass should not be doing that, right?

35:05 But when they moved some inches away from the shiny spots, like move the compass away, it would drop down. It wouldn't, wouldn't continue to like move, it would just like, drop. Like I said, they decide to say OK, fuck, like we've written all this stuff down. We've done our drawings, We need to tell someone something happened. We have been missing time. We don't even recall what the fuck happened for like, a total like what? 7-8 hours, Something like that. Yeah, at least seven or eight hours. What do we do? This could be a threat to like, you know, human beings, because clearly something happened.

35:45 And clearly it wasn't great because I have, like, skiff marks on my shoes. Betty's dress is torn it. Was clearly wasn't pleasant Yeah it was not a pleasant like we can't we can't remember but it's yeah all everything's. Clearly something aggressive and yeah, yes, yeah, so they actually report to the US Air Force and the NIACP and Barney said that he okay. So this was October 21st, 1961. So they there's like a month later, right. They were coming back on the 18th of September and 18th, 19th and then the Air Force comes and is like okay, let's have let's have an interview, Let's like do like a six hour interview.

36:31 We're going to get as many details as we possibly can. They're doing this like interview and they are relating everything that they can kind of remember. But as time passes that their memories become more foggy and Barney saying like, I have a mental block and he's like, I feel like it's to the point where I like something bad happened. Like we're talking about I must have a mental block because it was so extreme, so traumatic that I I'm not remembering it because I don't want to remember it. So they're describing in detail about the aircraft. He's describing those, you know, exactly what we had just talked about.

37:14 And the guy and he's like, you know, I've seen these things, like, I don't know, they look humanoid, but they're not human. I can tell you that much. I can't tell you anything more. But the guy who's interviewing hit them, Walter and Webb, who was the Boston astronomer and an IACP member, he's like, yeah, they're definitely telling the truth. And the incident probably occurred exactly. I'm quoting him exactly. The incident probably occurred as reported, except for some minor uncertainties and technicalities that must be tolerated in any such observations where human judgment is involved, like the exact time and length of the visibility, the apparent sizes of object and occupants in the distance and height of the object, etc. They're like, these people are not bullshitting me. They're they clearly saw something. Of course, it seems like things are off a little bit, but that's because it was a traumatic situation. Yeah, Not gonna remember every single exact detail of everything.

38:13 Yeah, and things might get jumbled, you know? Yeah, blah blah. It's like natural. But these people are not bullshitting. Yeah, so they do that. Sometime goes by, Betty starts having dreams. Oh, shit. And this is like, you know, 10 days after the actual, like, encounter that they had, she starts having these really vivid dreams. And it they're happening night after night after night after night for five nights. So she said when she experienced them, like, the detail was so extremely, like, accurate that she's never had a dream so intense before. There's never been anything like, so vivid, so clear as these dreams.

38:58 But after that fifth night, they just totally stopped. And when she was, like, mentioning it to her husband, Barney, he's like, oh, you know, it sounds pretty scary, you know, But he was trying to be sympathetic, but he didn't really care that much or didn't seem like he cared that much. So she's like, OK, I guess it's just really not that big of a deal. So she stopped mentioning these dreams to Barney in November, though, after they had this interview with that dude with the astronomer. Betty starts writing down the details of her dreams. And in one of the dreams, she and Barney are at a roadblock.

39:39 And men. There are men that surround her car, and she loses consciousness and then is like, struggling to like wake back up and like, you know, regain her consciousness. And then she realized that she was being forced by two small men to walk into a forest at night and saw that Barney was walking behind her. And when she called to him, it seemed like he was like in a trance or something. It's like he didn't even hear her, like he was like sleepwalking. And the men stood about 5 or 4 feet tall. They wore matching blue uniforms with caps similar to those like the a cadet, like a military cadet would wear. And they appeared to be nearly human, with black hair, dark eyes, really prominent noses and bluish lips and that their skin was like grayish okay.

40:32 So they were taken to the car and the leader said that they need to watch the crafts departures, they need to watch that it leaves. So this is like, it's almost like, OK, maybe I'm she's starting to piece together what had actually happened, OK during that time, Like she's almost like her memories are coming in through. Her They needed to do some hypnosis. That's because it sounds like it was like deep in her subconscious and mere dreams were pulling it out. Maybe I think you're right. I think you're on to something. We might be talking about it. OK. So they've had so many different interviews, right? One of the huge questions they're constantly asked were, what's up with this missing time?

41:15 They're trying, like these interviewers are trying to get a timeline together. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, they have the timeline up until like 7 or 8 hours. Yeah. And then everything comes back. So they can't, they can't really define a timeline. Right. Which is a huge problem. Yeah. Because ultimately, like they arrived home way later than than they anticipated, it should have actually taken them four hours to get home, and it had actually been 7 hours since they're like the time that they thought they would be there 7 hours late. And this has become an actual phenomenon in the UFO world called Missing Time. You hear about it a lot.

42:03 Yeah. And back then, they're just trying to, these investigators are trying to piece together like these people are legit. You know, where the heck did this hat? Like, did do they have, like some brain issues, like what's going on? Sure. But what we find later is that this is just a piece of the puzzle of these, of this phenomenon, this UFO phenomenon where people miss time and they were like one of the first people to talk about it. So as far as, like, this happened to them and it really changed their perspective on life. Now you have these people who are newlyweds stoked about the world and like, excited to be together and hopeful, and then this really traumatic thing happened, and there's no answers. They don't have any answers.

42:48 They feel like they were violated. You know, that their bodies were violated. They can't recall a lot of time. It looks like they were violated because, you know, their clothing looks like they got into a fucking fight. Exactly. But they can't remember anything. So it's like there's a lot of trauma that they're going through. Well, there I said before, they're devout, like are really active members in their Unitarian church. So they start talking about it in their church with other parishioners. They're like, we don't know. Yeah, we went through something. We don't know what happened, but something happened. And so they're they're talking to to their, you know, different people. And one of the the members of the church is Captain Ben H Sweat of the US Air Force.

43:40 He was a guest speaker at their church at that time. When they're talking about this stuff. And he's like, hey, there's hypnosis. What you're saying? So he goes up to them privately was like, hey, so hypnosis potentially, like you guys should look into it. It seems like something's up. And and he really wanted to figure out what the fuck was up with the the missing time. That was really what he was like trying to get after Betty's having these dreams. She's not really talking about them, but like, he's like, there's something up with this missing time and let's see if we can get into your, like, your unconsciousness.

44:22 So he asked if he could hypnotize them to recover them. But you know, he's like, you know, I am an amateur. I probably shouldn't be doing this. So he talks to another. They talk to another dude, Simon. So he starts putting his hip, hip, hypnosis or hypnotist, whatever, you know what I'm talking about. So they start doing these sessions and Barney has these sessions and he starts, he starts talking about like, what do they do? Like when you're, you know, look at this okay, Let's try to remember some of the things that they actually have. What was one of the things that they had binoculars that strap.

45:03 Right. What happened to the straps they're trying to, like, figure out in his. Yeah. So he's like, what happened, Barney? Barney's like, it broke when I was running from the UFO back to the car. Oh. My God. And he he remembers like driving away from the UFO, but then felt like he was like compelled to pull off the road and drive into the woods OK And he says that he have he eventually exceed 6 men standing on a dirt road and the cars was stalled. I can't. I can't move it. This is like a total scary story.

45:45 Totally. So the car stalls and the three men approached the car and they told Barney through like, ESP. Oh my God, don't be scared of us. Oh my God. Oh, I'm so sure. Yeah, OK. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, don't be scared of you, dude. I'm driving in the middle of the fucking forest and all of a sudden my car stops and you guys are all just like, don't be scared. We mean no harm. You're like, fuck yeah, hilarious. Are you kidding me? OK so Barney is recalling this one part of his abduction. He it's very piecemeal.

46:33 What they're finding like through these this hypnosis is he's very piecemeal about his information. But one thing he remembers and he can't stop talking about are the eyes. And I'll, I'll, I'm going to quote him Okay. So he says they told Okay. So they told Barney not to fear them when they're in the forest. So of course he's anxious. He's like mom. Fuck that. But the leader, what Barney perceives to be the leader told told Barney, close your eyes. And Barney, while he was hypnotized, says. I felt like the eyes had pushed into my own eyes, which what a weird. Yeah, I mean that makes zero sense. Let's just say he's making it up. Who would think of that?

47:24 I felt like the eyes were being pushed into my own eyes. I don't know. Very vivid. Like that is a feeling that just you and that is a that is, it's a surreal, yeah, weird ass thing. My God, So OK, so he's saying that and he can't. He really like, as he's recalling things, he's kind of saying, you know, they kept on staring at me in the eyes. Now this is something both him and Betty kept on saying. They kept on staring at me in the eyes. And he said it was like this mesmerizing, terrifying effect that they had, that like, they're almost like, you know, in this like, weird, dreamlike state because of this, the staring into their eyes. And Barney kept on talking about these fucking eyes, saying, like, oh, those eyes, they're there in my brain. And that was from the first hypnosis session. Then, he says, I was told to close my eyes, because I saw two eyes coming into mine, coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes. All I see are eyes.

48:29 I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just here. They're up just up close to me, pressing against my eyes. Oh my God, like he can't get over these eyes. And Betty, like, when she was having these, this hypnosis, she kept on remembering that, like conversations that were happening with the leader in English. And Barney says, you know, I didn't hear English. I just heard a mumbling language that I can't understand. So she also says, I do remember hearing, you know, some language that I didn't understand. But I also heard him speaking in English. So the few times that they actually did communicate with Barney, he's like, it was like it was a thought transference, like ESP and he didn't really know what the fuck telepathy was. He didn't know that there was a term for telepathy. Now these people, we were talking about it before like these folks are salt of the earth folks. Like they don't.

49:30 It's not like they're in theater or they're artists or like, you know, they have like these at like they're writers that have like these active imaginations. I'm sure they did have active imaginations, but they were more like down to earth people. Yeah, like coming up with this didn't really seem like it was something in their vocabulary, right? You know, right? I mean, you even know what telepathy meant. He couldn't put it a word into. He's like they're communicating like through thought transference instead of like, oh, ESP, telepathy like you and I know these these words. He didn't know these fucking words. He just knew what he was experiencing. Betty, her session. It was very similar to her dreams about her five dreams about the UFO, like abductions that she had written down.

50:16 There were some differences and mainly it was like pertaining to the weight there, the capture and then their release, like how they left the the UFO's. And she recalls through hypnosis that the technology was different and the short men you know were slightly different in physical appearance and and then the sequences of how the abduction occurred. It was all broken up. It was different from her dreams. OK. So let me just say, yes, let's say they made this up. Sure. And I said to you, I said, hey, Alicia, we're going to make up this story.

50:58 And so we need to get our shit together, Yeah. And so here's how we were abducted. Here's where we went, here's what they look like. We would have that together, yeah, down pat. Down pat. So when they asked us, our stories would fucking match, yeah? Theirs don't. They don't necessarily. So that tells me that this wasn't. They weren't. I'm sorry. Nobody's that smart. You know nobody. Can go. Hey, we're gonna come up a story, but we're gonna make it different so that this is plausible. I mean, no. Yeah. No, no, you can't. You can't look at it that way. Like.

51:38 I think that when you look at it that way that like, OK, because because why would we even do that? Why would you even do that? Maybe you wanted attention. Maybe you wanted whatever, like, you know, they weren't searching for neuriety. They were in fact that's the exact. I mean, I guess neurie does happen to you if you're if you say that you're an alien, like you had an alien abduction. But once again this was in the early stages of alien abduction. We heard a lot of them in like the 80s, the 70s, the 90s, not in the early 60s. There wasn't like a slew of people who have been proven to be like total kooks, right? Yeah, These people are normal people. They have things they care about. Civil rights movement, you know, doing that. Yeah, saying it like.

52:24 Exactly. They have, Yeah, exactly. You you you have a background or you have a. Your your your personality doesn't lend itself to any of shenanigans. No. Your your history has never proven that this would lead to this. No. That's why it seems so plausible. I think so too. I I think now there there are some like issues like one if they had the same Exp. Well, why are they recalling specific like different things but don't? Like why? Like, let's say we were in a bank robbery. Yes, like you might experience look at things very differently than I did. And so when I described the bank robber, I might go, Oh my God, it was this big beefy, scary looking guy. And you might go, Oh my God, it was just this little wimpy dude. Yes.

53:09 You know, I mean, it's just like different perspective. Yeah. So that's why I think it's very plausible that they saw, just saw things differently. They saw things differently. They experienced things differently. Maybe they recall different details. Like, yeah, you say I saw this big old beefy guy. I'm like, I just remember the mask that he was wearing. That's exactly. You're like, oh, I don't even remember a mask. And like, yeah, how could you not remember the mask? It was so scary, you know? But for me it was scary. Right, precise. And same thing with, like, you know, Betty, so she, so she she was saying, you know, they're different, OK, basically what Simon does, he he looks at their entire, like both Betty and Barney's stories. And they're like, he's like, you know, but he writes an article for the Journal of this of Psychiatric Opinion, and he says that his conclusion was that the case was a singular psychological aberration. What does that mean?

54:02 He basically was saying that. They hallucinated together. Yeah. Yeah. Like why we couldn't? Explain it. He couldn't explain it. He's like this is making no sense. I don't know. I don't have enough answers. And not really explaining everything that happened and those like that missing time. This missing time is weird. Anyways, what if they both, just, I don't know, ate something weird and like, had some kind of hallucinogenic effects and then this is what had happened. This was the experience they both experienced, which I don't know if you've ever done a hallucinogen. Not that I would ever know, because I don't know that you don't have the same experience as other people, right? Right.

54:43 Like, the experience that you have is very, very personal to you. Yeah, Versus another person, you could be staring out at a, you know, a sky and see something completely different than someone else does. So if that were the case, how do they have something that aligns so specifically together? Right, exactly. It makes zero sense to me. I would be asking those questions. So you know, this happened, nothing happened to both of them. You know, they there was, you know, they were, they were willing to talk about their experience, but they really went back to their regular lives. Occasionally UFO researcher would talk to them or a family member or friend would talk to them, but really they stopped trying to talk about it publicly. They're like nobody cares.

55:32 Nobody's taking us seriously. It's not worth it. Like let's just get back to our normal lives. So you know in October 25th 1965, there was a a front page story about them that said like you have to chiller did they seize couple like you know people were talking about an audio tape Because I guess that reporter, the the reporter who wrote this John H Luttrell of the Traveler had actually been given an audio tape recording of the lecture that the Hills made in a in Quincy Center in late 1963 when they were still trying to get, you know, their story out. And Latrell learned that they had actually gone through the hypnosis with Simon. So he was obtaining, you know, confidential, like those notes from these interviews that the Hill had, Hill had given or Hills had given UFO investigators. And this story is picked up by the United Press International. So people are like, Oh my God, we've never heard this story before.

56:41 Of course, the Hills had been telling it years before. They just gave up on it. Yeah. And the Hills. OK, so John G Fuller, who was another writer, he worked with the Hills and Simon, who was the the hypnosis dude, and they wrote a book called The Interrupted Journey, which you can still buy today. And it was about that case and it it actually included a Betty sketch of a star map that we hear about now. Yeah. Do you know when, when she create that star map? Do you know under what circumstances? I Let's see.

57:22 I don't know exactly when she drew it, but I mean, she was writing notes and recalling all of these things, you know, the same year that she was abducted. OK, so you think back. And that's when she was writing all of this stuff down her dreams and this infamous star map. Yeah, cuz not a lot of the information from the hypnosis sessions was really released or publicized. Because that dude Simon was like, it was just like this fucking thing that happened to them. And like, it wasn't real. Like it was all in their heads or whatever. Yeah. So I'm sure that some of that was also discussed during that time, but it doesn't come out until the public is actually interested in it. And they're like, Oh my God, this actually happened. And these people seem legit.

58:12 They're like, yeah, we've been saying it for. Four years later, exactly. We've been saying it for four years and now you guys are finally listening. And then Simon's like, oh, I couldn't make some money off of this. Sure, I'll show you everything. Like, even though he basically was like, yeah, no, they didn't fucking, you know, it was just some kind of thing. So. So she has that star map. There was the Betty's star map that was included in that book, and the book was a fucking overnight success and it went through several printings. You can still get copies today. You know, Barney actually had passed away of a cerebral hemorrhage on February 25th, 1969. So he was. He was 46. And then Betty became a celebrity, Like, really in her own regard in the UFO community because Barney had passed away.

59:02 She actually died of cancer October 17th, 2004. She had never remarried. Barney was her, the love of her life, but going back to that star map. OK, so that Interrupted journey book was picked up by this woman who was an elementary school teacher. Her name was Marjorie Fish and she was also an amateur astronomer. And she was like, what the hell is this star map like? This is cool. I wonder if I could figure out where the hell it is. So she's like, if I can decipher this, I can find out where the hell this is. I could potentially find out where this UFO came from. So she like does all these things She you know puts the the earth stars like all all this shit together and wanted to try to find like stars that could potentially have life as we know it and and looks at different star catalogs and stuff like that and comes up with the map potentially being the double star system of Zeta Reticuli that's 39. Light years from Earth.

1:00:18 OK, so she sent her analysis to that dude Web who had written the book, and he agrees with her. And he was like, OK, I'm going to send this to the editor of Astronomy, which was a magazine back in the day, and Dick, whose name was Dickinson, Terence Dickinson. And he's like, I don't, I am a scientist. I do not endorse this. Like, you know, there's like, well, maybe it could be. It's like, I don't know. I'm not going to say it, but astronomy did invite comments and, you know, debate on the UFO report.

1:00:59 And they start publishing little articles in December 1974 in an issue that becomes, you know, popular. This is 1 Carl Sagan. We all know him and Steven Soder are arguing that the star map was just a little bit more than random alignment of chance points. Like like this. There's not. She just just so happens to write some or to Draw Something out that actually does exist. But like, that's just, it's just a coincidence and like, you know. So they're saying that she just made it up and just so happens to match up with this? Is Zeta ridiculous?

1:01:43 Zeta ridiculous. Yeah. And he even and you know that show Cosmos that he did so in 1980 he actually demonstrate demonstrated that without lines drawn in in the maps the hill map bore no resemblance to the real life you know map of the Zeta Reticuli system. Other people were like, no, it actually there's sixteen stars of of that specific type of like spectral type among thousands of stars nearest the sun. That's at least 1000 against one. So like 1000 to one odds that like you would get all sixteen of these correct in the right spot. So ultimately in the early 90s, you know, there was a mission called the European Hip Hippocrose, which was a satellite that is looking at, you know, the fucking solar system.

1:02:45 So it measures distances to more than 100,000 stars around the sun and is more the most accurate that we've had up until that point. And it showed some of the stars in fish's interpretation. That woman's Marjorie Fish. The interpretation of the map were actually much farther away than previously thought, but other research revealed that some of the stars counted by Fish as likely to host life would have been excluded through her own criteria. She was a she was a fucking elementary school teacher. Give her a break, but ultimately Fish ends up rejecting that hypothesis that she had that this was in Zeta Reticuli. She's like, yeah, actually, I think I was wrong about this.

1:03:26 They didn't map it out correctly. Really. Yeah. So she says that in a public statement. OK, I'm gonna put on my conspiracy hat. Put it on. I'm putting in my hand, yes, someone said. Yo, you need to calm your tits, yes, OK. And you need to go retract everything that you just said, yeah. Because we can't have any part of that, we can't. We can't let people know yet. Right. Disclosures not happening yet. It's gonna happen, but people are not ready for. It exactly I mean seems pretty plausible. I mean, why not?

1:04:14 Why? We just talked about Mr. I mean why? Why couldn't you like if this seems like OK Zeta? Because where do we know Zeta reticuli from? J Rod. Yes, J Rod. In one of our past episodes, that's where Mr. J Rod was from, the Zeta Reticuli star system. So I mean some interesting coincidence. Right. How would she know about that? She couldn't have. Oh, she she would not have known about that. That wasn't until when was he picked up in like the mid 60s? Yeah, this was after when she had started, when the the star map was already out, that this that conversation with J Rod had even started because J Rod had not been. But that's even none of that was like it wasn't known. Known.

1:05:08 Nope, It's an awfully like interesting. Yeah, that. Yeah. I don't know if I can call that a coincidence, but it's. I mean people will rebut will rebut like anything, right? We've talked about this before, like, I can make anything fit anything if I want it to fit something, yes, that's the other thing. If you put it on the other hat, right? Like I can make this fit there if you put you know this and that and blah blah blah yes. So I don't know, I just. I just think it's too coincidental. I think it's coincidental. I think that the fact that Betty's story never changed. Betty and Barney never were like Psych, you know, they never said Psych that, you know, Betty was a both them wanted to be taken seriously at a time that that was very important.

1:06:00 You know, they had to be, they had to be good citizens because, look, they were interracial couple, yeah. So it's almost like they had to be better. It's like, why would I want, even want this attention anyway? They already have the spotlight on them. No, already hard for us. So why am I gonna sit here and talk about aliens and like, this missing time, unless it was something so traumatic that they're, like, trying to heal through it? I don't know. I mean, I could see that being is so extreme and, like, also feeling like a duty to other humans, to humankind to be like, there's something else out there.

1:06:41 This is what happened to us. We don't know exactly what happened, but it wasn't pretty. And like, if you've had something like that happen, you know, you're not alone, right? Just knowing that. I mean, you know, people will even say, like, there was an Outer Limits episode. They're like, this is very close. Maybe they saw this. OK, yeah, maybe they did. But you know, it didn't seem like they had, like nobody was like, oh look, they have like this massive store of like, scifi books. Like these people were really trying to make some real change in the world in the civil rights movement, so. Yeah, I'm still not seeing anything to gain. There's there was 0 to gain, there was 0 to gain. Maybe they made some money off of a book, but I don't even think that, you know, it's not like, you know, Barney still, you know, died when he was in his 40s, right? Like Betty had nothing to gain.

1:07:30 She never remarried. She, you know, told her stories and maybe she made some money, like in the UFO like community. But aside from that, her story didn't change. Her story never changed. She did not. She never said I was only kidding or like, you know, we came up with this ruse. This was like and all of these things that had happened, right? Like missing time, you know, things being like broken or or like torn or whatever, where you don't remember what the heck happened, right? Those circles on their car, the fact that the car stopped totally OK before they approached these you know these aliens or you know UFO's, the UFO descended and was completely quiet like these. All of these things are are things that they're like tropes in the in the UFO community, right. They were not tropes at that point exactly. This was the first time that these tropes were played. Oops, excuse me, were played out. That's the the first time.

1:08:35 So, like, this is the first very well documented abduction story. All of the documents, like these drawings, Betty's dress, the letters that that Betty had like written about her experience, They're her dreams. Barney's dreams. Like even like their NAACP like certificates and stuff. The University of I think it's the university. Let me just double check of New Hampshire holds has an entire archive for the the Betty and Barney Hill incident so or the Zeta Reticuli incident. They have an entire area so you can have and it's LinkedIn the show notes you can look at at the imagery. They even made, like, a bust of it, like they were. They drew the aliens, they drew the spacecraft. You can see all of that.

1:09:32 And she thought it was so important. And her dress like she gave everything. Yeah, to her alma mater saying this is important stuff. You need to hold on to it for posterity's sake. And maybe, you know, in 50 years, maybe, I hear disclosure supposed to happen soon. Maybe we're we'll find out that, like, this fucking was real and like, these are real aliens. What do you mean you hear disclosure is coming soon? What do you mean? Well, word on the street is like, right? We have like a new if you're asking me honestly okay so we have the US government is now taking UAP's or UFO's unidentified aerial phenomena or it used to be unidentified flying object.

1:10:22 Now they're called UAP's because it's like different. It's the same shit. Anyways we have, we're taking those like calls seriously. the US is now talking about footage that has been released by Air Force like those Tic Tac videos which I think we should talk about in the future there. The NASA just like, you know this year had an overview or an oversight like committee. They're like yeah we're trying to find biological signatures, right. And like that's bonkers. They would never like NASA and and the US would be like these are Cokes.

1:11:02 We're just trying to like eventually we would love that would be great, but we don't think that there's anything any other life but us. You know they would never even admit that that was a thing. Now they're saying, yeah, actually we have the committees. So it's like I think that we're slowly moving towards an area where UAP's and like UFO's and disclosure disclosing like the fact that we know that there is something out there, it's going to happen, yeah. Alright, gonna just start, gonna. They're going to start communicating it more than they have. Yeah. Yeah, yes. I mean, they already have. It would just look at the last like three years. Right. That's right. It's changed dramatically. And guess what? Nobody seems to care, right? Nobody's like, Oh my God, NASA just had, like, this committee, like, hearing about how they're looking for biometric signatures in space.

1:11:54 Like, that's insane. That's insane. Like, these things are crazy, right? Anyway, I think that it's going to happen. And I think that, you know, having thank God Betty kept that dress and that that she kept such, yeah, you know, detailed notes. Yeah. Because, you know, we might look back in 50 years and be like, Oh my gosh, this was the Betty and Barney Hill incident or Barney and Betty Hill incident. And and they were telling the truth the whole time. Everyone just were assholes and didn't believe him. So So what did? Did she ever say that she went to Zeda? Or why did she draw that star map?

1:12:37 Cuz they showed her where they were from and she saw like a map or something of it. So in this event that she and her husband were at. So let me see. You're saying that? In some way, form or fashion, they showed her where they were from and so as a result when she was documenting her dreams and things like that, she was just drawing out the map that they told her about I believe. So I'm looking at my notes right now and I don't recall. I I think it was from one of the interviews that they that she had. She was like. But she didn't go there. She didn't. I don't think that she went there.

1:13:17 She could have what? I really wonder, because it's so hard to find all of the information. I really wish I had more notes on the actual interviews that they did. I don't. I didn't. I'm sure. I'm sure we get there. Yeah. Yeah. And I. So I think that would be interesting. It would be cool to know whether or not she went out there, but I don't recall the The Hills talking much about that. I if if I'm going to be honest, maybe the more extreme the conversation became, they kind of stepped away from it because look, it's a a black and a black man and a white woman who already are getting attention. Like you were saying like do we really need to be like, Oh yeah, then they probed me and then they did this and then this. It's like, OK, let's just we're already like, we have a base level of like a lot of people are not going to tolerate this. Yeah, but then on top of that, you know, they're dealing with all this like crazy ass shit, this crazy story. So I would be interested to know that I maybe, maybe I don't have an answer to it.

1:14:21 Wow. That's why, that's why it's fascinating, because it just, it's not like some random place. Like it connects to other things that other people have said. Like I said when we started talking about J. Rod and element and the element, yes on that 115. It connects, yeah. So I mean it's just that's the thing this phenomena, you know, we're talking about disclosure, we're talking about, you know, Ufo's or Uap's or whatever. They all have similarities. Is it because now these stories are so well known? Well, potentially, But what is that saying? If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

1:15:09 Like maybe they're the this phenomena should be taken seriously and we should say this is aliens, or this is another dimension or like this is. Whatever the case, is there something here and the same thing's happening to other people and we need to start taking it seriously and saying call a spade a spade. This is exactly what's happening. Let's start studying it instead of, you know, ridiculing these poor people for coming out and telling the truth of something that's incredibly traumatic for themselves. Exactly like God. It'd be awful. Could you imagine that? No be. It would be awful, yeah. So I'm not sure I could do it. I don't know if I could do it either. I'm not sure if I would be like honest. I know I'd be like.

1:15:52 No, not Kevin. Yeah, we had we had a guest who said this happened to them and they wrote into us about it. Oh God. But so that's that's my story about the Zeta Reticuli incident or the Betty and Barney Hill incident. Fascinating. Oh, one thing I wanted to to talk about is, hey, if you're listening right now, please, you know, review us on iTunes. Wherever you're listening, hit thumbs up, Give us five stars, 10 stars, 10 stars, whatever the highest is and the we'll take it the highest number. But yeah, this has been really fun. And thanks. It was a great episode. It was fun.

1:16:32 I love how our episodes connect to each other too. I know. It's so cool. Cool. Thank you so much. Thank you, Okay. Talk to you later. Talk to you later. Bye.