There's a spy in your pocket!

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Hello, bizarre story friends.
You've tuned into the Bizarre

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AF, a place where we talk about
the strange, the unusual, the

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unknown, and all things bizarre
AF.

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I'm Kevin.
I'm going to be your host for

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today's episode.
And as always, we ask that you

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keep an open mind.
Keep a skeptical ear, but keep

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listening to those facts as we
take you on our newest journey,

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surveillance.
A spy is in your pocket.

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Well hello my bizarre story
friends please help me welcome

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my Co Hostess with the mostess
and my sister from another Mr.

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and my mother from another
Alicia.

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Hey, girl.
Hello.

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Hello.
It is I I've not heard the

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another mother.
Yeah, I've never heard that one.

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So it is so nice to be here.
Yeah, it I, I, I was looking

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forward to recording today.
Yes.

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You know, you just get in those
moods and you're like, God, I

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need, I need to cast.
We need a, we need.

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We need to cast.
Yes, we need to.

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We need to be here and and
connect on all the, you know, on

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all the weird shit.
Yes.

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Especially when we're like, OK,
there is so much weird shit in

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this world, let's talk about it
and let's not focus on the

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weirdos who are just trying to
confuse us right now, 'cause I

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feel like, I feel like that's
what it's been like.

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And I would much rather talk
about the spy in my pocket.

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Is that a spy in your pocket or
are you just happy?

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To see me, I know because some
of the news I go like, am I

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crazy?
Am I the one being crazy?

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And no, we're going to talk
about people.

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We're going to talk about crazy
stuff.

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Oh my God, I'm so excited.
It's way better than thinking

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you're crazy.
Yeah, yeah, we're actually

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actually, actually hearing crazy
shit.

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I am so stoked to hear about it.
So, Alish, yes, have you ever

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heard of a software called
Pegasus?

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No, I have not heard of a
software called Pegasus.

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I it's funny, I've actually
heard of of of a project called

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Pegasus which we will be
talking.

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About.
Yeah, soon, Yeah.

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We were talking about like what,
what, what podcasts have we

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written or wanting to talk
about.

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So it's funny that you say this
is the universe saying we need

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to talk about Project Pegasus,
but the software Pegasus.

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No, I I mean it seems like the
from the way you're talking

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about it, it's something I
should know because I probably

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interact with it.
You don't know, you do.

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So it's perhaps the most
notorious spyware known in the

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world.
Oh fuck.

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And I say known because, as we
all know, we only know a peep of

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what goes on in the world.
Exactly.

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If we knew more, we would shit
our pants.

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Not only that, but like if we
knew how nefarious we were

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talking about nefarious shit
earlier, but like if we knew how

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nefarious all this stuff was.
No, we.

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No.
We would not, we would be, we

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would never leave our homes.
I already I already kind of feel

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like I don't want to leave my
home.

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I know.
But there's more good in the

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world than there is bad.
That's right, right?

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That's right.
Did you say that 10 times?

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Yes.
All right, So what is Pegasus?

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Pegasus.
It allows law enforcement or

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government authorities to
ultimately secretly hack into

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Target's smartphones.
So what does that mean?

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That means absolutely
everything.

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Photos, videos, text messages,
emails, phone calls.

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Like if you do it on your phone,
they can see it, hear it,

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monitor it, all of it.
There are a lot of questions I

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have associated with that.
I'll save it because I'm.

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Feeling like you're gonna answer
some of them.

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Maybe we'll talk about them, I'm
sure.

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So absolutely all activity you
do on your mobile phone is

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accessible.
Even when you're using.

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It, but not just, not even.
And you don't have to be using

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it.
That's the other thing.

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This includes GPS.
Well, 'cause we all know, like

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you and I, we share our location
with you.

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They're constantly.
All the time, like all.

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The time, like whatever.
Like I could be on vacation,

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yes.
At all times.

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I actually do, like, peep you
out when you're on a cool on

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vacation, right?
Oh, my God, you're in Hawaii.

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Oh, look where he's at.
Oh, let me see.

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Has he dropped any photos?
See.

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That's fun.
I think that's fun.

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I think so too.
And by the way, it's a safety

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thing for me too.
Yes, 'cause like if something

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happens to me, I'm like, well,
Lady Alicia will know where I

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am.
Yeah, I I will know where the

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body is buried.
Exactly.

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We need to have it implanted
into your.

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In first, so, so, yeah, so they,
so GPS seems like an obvious

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one, right?
But and your phone's constantly

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connected to cellular or Wi-Fi.
So you're, they always, you

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always know where you are or
someone knows where you are,

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where you go, where you travel,
how often you go there, What are

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your frequent habits?
Where do you go?

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Went all of it right.
That's.

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Like targeted ads?
And by the way, there's a

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microphone and a camera on your
phone, so you don't have to have

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either one of those on for those
to be activated.

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Yeah.
OK, OK, that this, this is what

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freaks me out and I'm not
kidding.

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I have started to become one of
those people who covers their

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webcam.
Oh, I do that anytime I'm not

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using it 100%.
I was, I did have stickers on my

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phone, but they came off or
whatever.

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But I remember back in the day,
I was talking to hackers 'cause

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I worked in a technology, you
know, association years ago.

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And they're like someone had
actually hacked into my

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computer, took a picture of
themselves and then put it on my

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computer.
You.

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Yeah, no.
Yep.

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Uh huh.
Yeah.

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Yeah.
Just to prove that he could do

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it.
Yeah, that's.

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Scary as a.
But here's the thing, I where I

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worked, we were all on a similar
Wi-Fi.

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So he was like probably
accessing it through that.

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I mean, I don't, I don't really
know.

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But I remember talking to
someone years ago and he was

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like, I can hack into that phone
that you have.

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He's like, I've, I've done it
before just to prove that I can

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do it.
He's like, yeah, I can, I can

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hack.
And normally, you know, like

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sometimes I'll hack into
someone's phone and they're

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sitting on the toilet, you know,
scrawling.

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But sometimes you see things and
you hear about people having

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their like, stuff hacked into.
Yeah, this is, yes, this is

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nothing new.
It's so scary.

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It's really nothing new.
It's yes, it is scary.

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So we all so know, you know, the
rich and the powerful, they can

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control people and organizations
that run and manage law

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enforcement and government
authorities.

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And if they're the ones that are
able to do this, who's to say

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that they can't make them do it?
Oh.

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Yes, Yep.
But for some reason or another.

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So you're saying that Pegasus is
owned by the government or by

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law enforcement, so.
They own a license for it.

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This is a licensed piece of
software.

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They don't own the application,
they have purchased a license to

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use it.
So.

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We'll get there, OK.
You can see it all connected.

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Yeah.
Oh my fucking God.

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So, you know, you piss somebody
off who is rich and powerful,

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who has some law enforcement in
their back pocket.

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Well, now they've got this thing
at their disposal ultimately,

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even though they don't own it or
control it.

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That's that's what you know, and
who's to say this hasn't been

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used before to decide to silent
somebody, to discredit somebody,

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to blackmail somebody.
I, I mean, I feel confident to

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say that it's happened.
And people, if you get into the

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reporters in the community that
have really kind of tried to

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investigate the software,
everyone will tell you that this

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doesn't happen.
Come the fuck on, no.

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You can't.
But I just, I'm sorry, I just

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can't believe you because.
You can't, yeah, you can't like

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power.
What what is what is the saying

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the OR absolute power corrupts
absolutely.

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And so you're telling me that,
you know, people are not trying

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to find out, like, let's just
talk.

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We'll go from like, remember
when air tags had first come out

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and they were like pretty
inexpensive.

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And so people started putting
air tags or like GPS devices in,

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you know, people's cars that
they like were attracted to or

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whatever and started stalking,
stalking them.

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And so that's why Apple, now, if
there's an air tag that's

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following you because people
were women were killed, men were

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killed for this.
And if that's like a civilian

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who is maybe not just but like
looking for like sexual

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gratification, some kind of
gratification, Come on, If

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millions of dollars are on the
line or like, you know, a Senate

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seat is on the line, you cannot
tell me that they are not like

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they're.
Doing it.

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Yeah, no government secrets or
being able like spies are not

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using there's no way you.
Know, by the way, when you left

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on your vacation and you left
your car here and I got that

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because your you left your keys.
Yes.

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And that popped up on my phone.
Yeah.

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And so, like, couldn't they
couldn't Apple fucking figure

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out how to beep you?
If so, apparently the software

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you can't like detect it.
There's no detection and and is

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it?
Is it just like so in order for

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it to connect, it's always on
your phone or on your device?

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It git has to get installed.
OK.

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Various ways that can happen,
but once it's on there, it's on

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there.
Sure, you can't get rid of it.

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Yeah, I don't think without like
some factory reset or something.

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Some kind of know how?
Yeah.

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You'd have to even know that it
was on there to begin with.

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Well, exactly.
And then on top of that, let's

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say, let's say that you were up
in the mountains or something or

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on vacation and it was like in a
remote area, if you're connected

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to Wi-Fi, it can still.
So what if you're not connected

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to Wi-Fi?
Yeah, you have to be connected

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to the Internet.
Some there has.

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To be some kind of.
Yeah, if you haven't like no

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connection to the Internet, then
they can't get to you.

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That mean they can't see it.
This is where my conspiracy

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theory hat comes in and it's
like there's.

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Also, wrap it in a tenfold.
Wrap it in a piece of foil.

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I'm not.
Kidding.

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Yeah, I'm going to ask that
later.

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So.
So creating something as

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powerful as Pegasus can be
labeled and targeted to help the

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good guys.
But if you think that's all it

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is, then you're kind of naive.
It has to, you know that it

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can't have.
They could always say it's to

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help the good guys from the bad
guys, but then they could label

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anyone as a bad guy.
That's where it gets into this

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whole grade. 100%, yeah.
That's why you don't talk to

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you.
You have a lawyer present.

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Exactly.
Always have a lawyer.

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So this technology ultimately
turns your phone into a spy in

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your pocket.
And it doesn't matter if you use

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apps like WhatsApp that encrypts
and destroys messages, right?

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If you guys don't know what
WhatsApp is, is if you send

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messaging through there, what
happens is the app actually

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destroys, destroys the message.
So that if someone were to go in

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and kind of look at the history
like you can in chess today, it

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completely it destroys.
So it's a way it's gone.

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So that's what people use
WhatsApp for is kind of a way to

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chat without about fear of kind
of being caught.

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So cheaters use too, right?
Yeah, and international people.

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And yeah, exactly.
Criminals so, but it doesn't

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00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,600
matter because if you have
Pegasus, it's monitoring your

228
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,480
phone.
So it's not like it matters what

229
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,800
you use.
I can see whatever you're doing.

230
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:19,920
Doesn't matter what you're
doing.

231
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,880
If you can see it, I can see it.
Yeah, even signal like printed

232
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:32,960
it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter.

233
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,880
That's the other thing too.
Like people will buy the get

234
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,040
these apps and like, oh, it's
encrypted.

235
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,720
Yeah.
Well, if you had Pegasus on your

236
00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:43,360
phone, it doesn't matter if it's
encrypted.

237
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,520
You don't type encrypted.
No, no, exactly.

238
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,120
So it don't matter girl.
So you just you bottom line is

239
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,160
you can get this on your
software.

240
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,000
If you get this on your phone,
you're just forget it.

241
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,720
Now there are many private spy
Ware companies and tools and

242
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,120
they're selling their technology
mostly to governments.

243
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,280
This is a multi billion dollar
industry now.

244
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,440
I say mostly to governments
because, you know, you got the

245
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,760
money, girl.
Yeah, yes.

246
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,160
So the spy Ware, as it's called,
has to get on your phone

247
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:28,040
somehow.
They can just magically pick a

248
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:34,800
phone number and make it happen.
It is like placing a phone call.

249
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,640
Shut up.
So if you pick up the phone or

250
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,720
pick up the receiver, it
automatically is installed on

251
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,320
your phone.
I don't think it's quite that

252
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,240
easy but maybe it is like cuz I
don't know all the insurance and

253
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,520
outs.
I just know that it's very easy

254
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,600
to get it on your phone if they
want it on your phone.

255
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,480
Yeah, like they could send you
like some link or embed it.

256
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,720
Or of course, sure, sure.
Yeah, I've heard it embedded in

257
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,040
other apps.
Like you download an app, it's

258
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,240
in another app and like in a
very common app.

259
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,600
Yeah, like TikTok.
Sure.

260
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,200
OK girl, Can you imagine?
I'm sure it is.

261
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,160
Honestly, so the software gets
on your phone in many ways,

262
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,920
like, like you said, like
clicking a link in a text

263
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,840
message or an e-mail, opening a
document or a file, embedding in

264
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,360
another app as we were just
talking about it.

265
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,000
And in that regard, the
companies that manage these apps

266
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,480
are in their App Store, like
Apple.

267
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,240
They're in a constant, constant
battle to keep that stuff out of

268
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:46,240
their stores.
They have to.

269
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,320
That's why when you create an
ad, I don't know if you know

270
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,920
this, when you create an app,
you have to publish it to the

271
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,800
App Store.
They have people that review the

272
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,240
app, make sure everything's
cool, and then they put it into

273
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,560
their store to try to prevent
this kind of stuff from

274
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,280
happening.
But sometimes they are so smart

275
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,720
and they embed it so deep that
you know it can't get caught.

276
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,920
And This is why Apple won't let
you install anything that isn't

277
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,720
from their store.
I think Android either does or

278
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:17,120
did allow you to install stuff
from just like wherever and that

279
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,720
seems super, super dangerous.
But that's why Apple won't let

280
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,760
you do it.
This is one example.

281
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,960
In 2019, engineers at the
WhatsApp, they discovered

282
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,200
suspicious code hidden in their
instructions that was sending

283
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:47,600
information to somewhere else.
And at the time, a man by the

284
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,480
name of, I think it's Cloud
George, I I think he saw you

285
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,960
saying he's French, I believe
was the lead engineer

286
00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,920
responsible for the voice in the
video calling function of this

287
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,400
particular of the platform at
the time.

288
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,640
Right.
And once they fully discovered

289
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,240
it, it took WhatsApp just over a
week to develop and release an

290
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,720
update for the app that's
blocking these attacks.

291
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,359
And when they went public with
the information, letting people

292
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:21,440
know they were affected by this
attack from attack from spyware

293
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,640
made from an Israeli company
called NSO Group.

294
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,400
And what was the product that
they found in WhatsApp?

295
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:40,840
Pegasus embedded in WhatsApp.
And OK, so.

296
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,880
A very, very commonly downloaded
app.

297
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,160
Yeah, I actually have.
Well, I don't think I have it on

298
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,200
my phone right now, but if I'm
in a different country, I use

299
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,240
WhatsApp.
It was.

300
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,800
Just yeah, that's common.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's easier

301
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,840
because you can, you can connect
with anybody.

302
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,160
Yeah, it texts with anyone and
if if you're like doing Airbnb

303
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,280
like Dave and I were in Columbia
and that's how you would talk to

304
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,840
any hosts or anyone that you.
Were through WhatsApp.

305
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,920
WhatsApp, yeah, yeah, like
that's how.

306
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,000
I've had I was somewhere and
they asked me also asked me, do

307
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,680
you have WhatsApp on my?
No, I don't.

308
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,920
You know what it is, it is
really nice to use and it's

309
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,240
actually, it's, it's easier in
many countries.

310
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,320
So I, I had it and I have some
friends who live in Spain and so

311
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,880
we were staying with them.
They're like, we just

312
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,480
communicate through WhatsApp.
And so because the cell phones

313
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,200
like towers and stuff, they, you
know, was buggy.

314
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,040
So it's easier.
And this just goes through the

315
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,440
Internet.
Yeah, I don't worry about all

316
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,000
of.
That so I had it for a while,

317
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,200
but people use it, especially in
different countries, not just

318
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,720
for cheating, although you know,
look, pay attention and leave

319
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,000
the mofo if that's the case.
But but yeah, you would use it

320
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,560
and and it was almost like a
TikTok or like a you would share

321
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,680
like updates of your life in
these different countries.

322
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,880
So the amount of sheer amount of
data that they would have mined

323
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,720
out of that is.
Could have or that they could

324
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,080
have.
They could have connected to

325
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,000
anybody of those, any one of
those people.

326
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,560
That's the point.
And you know what?

327
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,480
They probably connected to a ton
of them.

328
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,320
Could have.
Yeah, like why not?

329
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,680
It's just 'cause once it's
installed it's just like click

330
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,320
that one with that phone boop
connected.

331
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,280
Done.
This is in the specific area

332
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,800
that we have targets in.
Oh, you just happen to be in

333
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,480
that neighborhood.
You're, you know, your GPS

334
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,840
pinged there and you're now all
of your.

335
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:28,800
Yeah, now we're going to track
you.

336
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,080
Yeah.
So there was a report that this

337
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:39,320
Pegasus has been used on human
rights activities, political

338
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:47,240
descendants, journalists, Ronan
Farrow, which I'm sure you.

339
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,040
Know Oh my God I love Ronan
Farrow.

340
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,840
Perfect example, he wrote some
articles about some very rich

341
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:59,960
and powerful men doing some very
very naughty little things and

342
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:04,000
they use this technology on him.
Oh, for blackmail.

343
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,800
Listen and watch him gather
pieces of information to try to

344
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,360
either harm him or shut him up
or figure out what he knew.

345
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,240
And yeah, he they figured out
that he had Pegasus on his

346
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,520
phone.
You're fucking.

347
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:24,680
I mean, honestly, I, I love,
love him, love him so much.

348
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,240
Also the love child I, I that's,
that's an episode we should

349
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:34,040
fucking do is the love child
between Frank Sinatra and Mia

350
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,280
Farah.
Like, I'm sorry, look at him.

351
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,360
He looks like fucking Frank
Sinatra, so handsome,

352
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,480
intelligent.
Like, I could go on about this

353
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,520
man, but this is an issue.
These journalists who are

354
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,800
investigative journalists have a
lot of sources that are either

355
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,160
whistleblowers or they have
sensitive information.

356
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,320
Yes, and.
Whose lives will be in danger if

357
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,960
found out who they are?
Yes, absolutely.

358
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,800
And and if you have any kind of
like dirt on these powerful

359
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,040
people, I mean, come on.
Hello, has the Epstein list been

360
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,920
released?
No wonder why exactly.

361
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,800
You know, conveniently enough,
people like, you know, die

362
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,120
around these powerful people.
There is a trail of bodies.

363
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:24,000
Like it's not it's not because
the people just automatically

364
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,360
have heart attacks.
Every single person, even though

365
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,280
they just had like, you know,
you know, doctors workups and

366
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,880
they're fine.
No, like, and and that's a

367
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,800
problem.
It's a problem if it's going

368
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,480
into these journalists because
we need whistleblowers.

369
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,240
We need honest people.
To well, this software is

370
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,200
supposed to be used for criminal
activity by governments.

371
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,840
It's not for political
descendants, journalists.

372
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,760
Whistleblowers.
It's not, it's not, it's not

373
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:55,280
meant to like to be used on
people who have not been proven

374
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,080
guilty or have created the.
Terrorist.

375
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,720
Yes, Yeah.
These are just normal human

376
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,240
beings.
Or fucking a journalist like

377
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,400
that's that's an issue.
No good.

378
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,840
Who's targeting these?
People.

379
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:08,920
Uh huh.
Yes.

380
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,320
Yeah, Well, the rich and the
powerful that have the

381
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:18,200
governments in their pocket.
It has also been reported that

382
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,160
Pegasus helped capture Mexican
drug Lord El Chapo.

383
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,440
Oh, I thought that was Sean
Penn, but the.

384
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,280
Nuts, but yeah, but, well, he,
yeah, he and him too.

385
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,120
I.
Think Chapo.

386
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,360
Yeah, they, I think they had
gotten this uninstalled on his

387
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,360
phone.
They say it was reported to be

388
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,560
used to track against Saudi
journalist Yamal.

389
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,520
What's the guy that got
murdered?

390
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,280
The Saudi reported the crowd,
the critical guy, the some Saudi

391
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:52,440
Jamal Khashoggi.
Remember the journalist who went

392
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,520
to the Saudi and they got
beheaded or killed?

393
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,360
Yeah.
So they used it to track him on

394
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,760
public record.
The NSO group vehemently denies

395
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:14,240
software being used to track him
specifically, but why would you

396
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,400
say that it was used to track
him?

397
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,600
Like why would you confirm that
it was?

398
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,400
It sounds like you're talking
out of both sides of your mouth.

399
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,800
And like, it's like, it's like
these people are hiding in plain

400
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,920
sight and they're like, hey,
look, we have this to the the

401
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,600
highest bidder, you can have
this.

402
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,120
We will help you.
We'll help you find whatever or

403
00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:38,000
whomever you want.
And we're going to get into the

404
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000
price in just a second because
that's the other real shitty

405
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,760
part about this whole software
they're.

406
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,080
Like it's $3.
For you, it's $3.00.

407
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,200
So finally, the Biden
administration places the NSO

408
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,480
Group on a Commerce Department
blacklist.

409
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,280
OK.
Thank you, Biden.

410
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,880
OK, so now what does that really
mean?

411
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,440
Well, probably not much, because
there's really no way on this

412
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,200
green earth that U.S.
government, who has already been

413
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,120
using this software, can
suddenly stop using it because

414
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:15,520
Joe Bryden said they're on a
black.

415
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:16,720
I mean, that's never going to
happen.

416
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,760
Joe Biden was a temporary
employee.

417
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,480
Exactly.
What the president says, what

418
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,680
we've learned from this podcast,
means absolutely nothing.

419
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,680
It means absolutely nothing.
So what it did do, though, was

420
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,560
making doing business with the
NSL Group A little bit more

421
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,600
difficult, right?
Because they're on this

422
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,920
blacklist.
Right, right.

423
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:45,080
And other firms would have to
think twice about using them in

424
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,280
fear of, you know, violating
this order.

425
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,240
Right, the US says no.
Right.

426
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,800
So you need to like follow suit.
Right, right.

427
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,280
Exactly.
Step in line.

428
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,160
So the day after this was put in
place, the CEO of the NSO Group

429
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,600
spokesperson called Ronan
Farrow, Farrow of the Wall

430
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,240
Street Journal and wanted to
meet.

431
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,280
And this particular spokesperson
would not let Ronan record the

432
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,360
meeting, which was 2 1/2 hours,
by the way.

433
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,320
They they are such a private
group.

434
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,560
They don't talk to anybody.
But now they're like, we want to

435
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,640
talk.
Ronan.

436
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:34,080
So Ronan reports that they are
absolutely a reeling from this

437
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,560
blacklist from Biden.
I mean, there are any fucking

438
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,080
panic?
Good.

439
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:45,800
Their philosophy is that this
technology is blooming all over

440
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:51,280
the world, and if they aren't
creating it, well then somebody

441
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,320
else says that's more nefarious.
Oh, so it's they're saying it's

442
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,880
not our.
No, it's them.

443
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,640
But if we're not?
But if we don't create it,

444
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,000
somebody else will.
It's.

445
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,640
And they won't control it like
we can control it.

446
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,880
Yeah, here's here's the thing.
It's blooming.

447
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,880
It's blooming like beautiful
flowers when we control it.

448
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,880
But if someone else controls it,
it's black mole.

449
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,160
It's evil.
It's.

450
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,760
Really bad.
Do not, don't trust anyone,

451
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,880
someone else, only trust us, the
keeper.

452
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,880
Exactly.
Exactly.

453
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,040
Sure.
Now they acknowledge there's

454
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:30,680
potential for abuse, but says
that they are most relative to

455
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,960
the competition, willing to
answer more questions in the

456
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,080
press and be regulated.
Like they're willing to do this,

457
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,040
so they're good.
Yeah.

458
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,400
But the other people that make
it, that aren't willing to do

459
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,840
this, the must They're bad.
That's why we're good.

460
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:55,240
Yes, yes, they're.
They're willing to have Ronan

461
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,640
fly to Tel Aviv and do an
interview, actually with

462
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,600
cameras.
Ronan.

463
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,480
'S, I mean, they're reeling.
They're reeling.

464
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,880
They're they're really freaked
out.

465
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,160
This is a huge problem.
Huge problem.

466
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:17,040
So we all may not realize this,
but Israel is at the very center

467
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,960
of surveillance innovations like
they are.

468
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,040
Lord God, King, wait.
Can you, can you say that again

469
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:31,760
for the people in the back?
I mean, honestly, the people who

470
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,160
know, know, but they are.
They are.

471
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,040
What are they again?
Lord God, King.

472
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:43,360
Yeah.
They they are, they absolutely

473
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:49,000
100% surveil everything and they
are the top.

474
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,400
They're good at it.
They're very freaking good at

475
00:27:52,400 --> 00:28:03,440
it.
Yeah, as I mentioned before,

476
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:11,080
they don't just use this
software weed out terrorists,

477
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,040
the bad guys I may are quoting.
In fact, in 2022 it was

478
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,080
discovered that Pegasus once was
installed on 6 Palestinians

479
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,800
human rights activists bones.
In 2022, yeah.

480
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,360
The defense manager minister
claims that they were part of a

481
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:36,200
terrorism investigation.
That's all you have to say, by

482
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,800
the way.
Yeah.

483
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Oh my God, Alicia is a complete
potential terrorist.

484
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,040
I'll be honest, some of the shit
we've talked about on this would

485
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,720
have us both be called that.
We're like, wait a second, like,

486
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,320
like this shit is real.
But but I mean, that's the

487
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,880
thing.
It's all in the name of Homeland

488
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,360
Security.
Exactly all.

489
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,880
That's all you have to say and.
Then people like oh.

490
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,840
Oh well, that's the red tape,
that's the, that's the the past,

491
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,080
that's the badge.
That yes, especially after 911,

492
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,560
right?
Like, we don't want terrorist

493
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,040
organizations.
Like we're as Americans, we gave

494
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,920
up so many of our privacy rights
in the name of, you know.

495
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,720
Protecting our freedom.
Yes, protecting our freedom.

496
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,160
From Yeah, it requires
surveillance.

497
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:34,360
Yes, exactly.
So they had these Palestinians

498
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,120
and they're like, yeah, I don't
know.

499
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,800
This is why we had them.
Because right, right.

500
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,760
And they use it for self-defense
and national security.

501
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:48,440
But like I said, it's easy to
claim at any time that no, yeah,

502
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,360
they may be human rights
activists, but we suspect them

503
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,520
to be terrorists.
So.

504
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,440
Oh, OK.
Well, then yes, absolutely.

505
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,880
You can use Pegasus.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

506
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,920
No, please, please do.
Please do You want to help out

507
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,200
terrorists?
Yeah, yeah.

508
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:09,680
These are criminals.
Now here's the thing.

509
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,800
Like I, I certainly do not have
any solution for this dilemma.

510
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,720
I I get, I get it like there is
a there's, it's like anything

511
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,320
we've talked many things we've
talked about on this podcast

512
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,520
before.
Yeah, right.

513
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,240
You can use it for good.
You can everything, everything.

514
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,720
There is a place and a purpose
for technology.

515
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,320
It can be used, be good.
It can be used.

516
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:41,200
I mean, it's, I get it.
There's like no real solution.

517
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,720
And I realized too that if you
have something so regulated that

518
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,520
some there's too much red tape
to actually then get it to use

519
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,400
it.
Right.

520
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,680
And that becomes a hindrance for
when you really need it.

521
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,600
Yes, yes, you don't want to.
So you don't want like in these

522
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,440
countries, you don't want to be
so like highly regulated and and

523
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,560
difficult to use.
So when something really bad

524
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,400
happens, right like now, you
have to go.

525
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,480
Through all this red tape and
all this stuff just to do and

526
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,600
then it's too late.
Yeah, then it's too late and you

527
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,320
can't collect any, any of the
information.

528
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,040
Like there's always a a decent
case or like a potential decent

529
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,360
case for utilizing this kind of
thing to to catch the bad guy.

530
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,200
Exactly.
Exactly.

531
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,800
People just abuse it.
That's the the problem.

532
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,400
Yeah.
You know, this is like an,

533
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,920
again, I mean, this is just one
other tool in the toolbox and

534
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,400
the arsenal, right?
Yeah.

535
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:55,600
So Ronan starts talking to the
NSO in 2019, and it wasn't until

536
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,240
2022 that they actually agreed
to let him, you know, go to

537
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,040
their headquarters and interview
them.

538
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,560
That's when they that's when
they called him and invited him.

539
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:11,480
Wow, they all said the same
thing that you wouldn't expect

540
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,920
them to say.
They also say that they could

541
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,240
not They could not provide
examples of them kicking

542
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:23,280
nefarious people off their
platform because of

543
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:29,120
confidentiality reasons.
They say they thoroughly vet

544
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,760
every customer but and that they
have kicked people off of their

545
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:42,800
platform but they can't tell you
who or why because of

546
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,360
confidentiality reasons.
Convenient.

547
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,800
Yeah, it's incredibly.
Convenient.

548
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,400
They also can't give examples of
all the good or the bad.

549
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,800
I'm air quoting things that
their software has prevented,

550
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,200
again for confidentiality
reasons.

551
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,680
I would say that's not a bad
position to be in for selling a

552
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,320
very expensive piece of
software.

553
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,320
Like, no, it's a great it's a
great fucking position to be in

554
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,000
one.
Like, OK, I'm not sympathizing

555
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,680
with these companies because
they are horrible, horrible,

556
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,200
honestly.
Like I, I, I can understand a

557
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,560
use and like there's always
like.

558
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,440
And someone's going to build it,
someone's going to need it.

559
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,560
Yes, yes, it's going to happen
regardless.

560
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,560
But you know, we're not talking
about good actors who are here.

561
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,760
We're not talking about like
people who are like, you know,

562
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,160
they're sitting there and are
actually like principled in

563
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,080
these things.
That's unfortunately the problem

564
00:33:54,080 --> 00:34:00,960
is that people suck.
We're in a capitalist society.

565
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,840
Like, you're like, whatever.
Oh, you want.

566
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,680
You want this?
Sure.

567
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,400
Like, we'll, we'll pay it.
Oh, you're gonna do it for

568
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,960
something nefarious.
It's gonna be a little bit more

569
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,159
expensive.
For you exactly.

570
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,960
But and and we're gonna need to
like make sure that you.

571
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:17,159
Don't know.
You're not.

572
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,560
You're not using it for
something nefarious, right?

573
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,120
No, no.
Well, you said that you're going

574
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,440
to use it for something
nefarious, so we can't really do

575
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,400
that.
You're right.

576
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,080
But you said now you're going to
do this other thing.

577
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,280
OK, cool.
Yeah, but if you see it in this

578
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,520
work phrase and then you also
give us like three times the

579
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,199
amount.
Right, right.

580
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,800
Yeah.
We're still haven't talked about

581
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,080
money.
So what also sets NSO apart from

582
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,600
other companies that probably
have this software and do the

583
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,520
exact same thing, Google and
Apple?

584
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,520
I didn't say that.
Yeah, yeah.

585
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,000
No, I didn't.
Hear you didn't hear anything,

586
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,719
right?
No, it was like gobbledygook.

587
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,920
I said gobbledygook.
OK, right, Right.

588
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,000
Is that NSO sells to other
countries.

589
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,240
They also charge extremely
different amounts for each of

590
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:15,320
their clients.
Extremely different for the same

591
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,360
piece of software.
If you've ever worked in sales,

592
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,720
you know exactly what that's
like.

593
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,920
Come on.
License A cost X and license B

594
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,920
cost Y.
That's what you would think it

595
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,200
would be.
Uh huh.

596
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,360
No Sir, No ma'am.
They would, for example, charge

597
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:43,520
a European country $10 million.
For a country in the Middle East

598
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:49,240
they would charge $250 million.
These are made-up numbers.

599
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:51,400
They're not made-up.
These are not made-up.

600
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,400
OK, I'm sorry, but it definitely
sounds a little racist.

601
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,280
To white people.
So no, you said, you said 200

602
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,800
million for.
Oh yeah, they got it cheaper.

603
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,600
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.

604
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:07,480
Yeah, no, the white people
desperately.

605
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,200
That's right, you guys sound a
little racist right now and.

606
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,200
But the Middle East are rats.
They got oil.

607
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,960
They have oil.
I no, I mean absolutely like

608
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,960
girl, I, I have, I have been to
London.

609
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,520
I have seen these like people
from, you know, the Middle East

610
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,880
and like bags and bags of things
from like these Harrods and

611
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,320
stuff in London.
It's like crazy, but you're

612
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,720
charging them way more.
Why?

613
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:35,920
Because.
Because they have money.

614
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,800
Because they have way more
money.

615
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,040
Because they have more money.
Same exact product.

616
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,600
Exactly.
It's the exact same product.

617
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,760
It's like God, I don't really
want to see this example but

618
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,600
because it's embarrassing but.
Is it embarrassing?

619
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,760
OK, OK.
Oh, I can, I can I can give an

620
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,440
example for this.
OK, so I have there are specific

621
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,520
bars that I can go to and like I
have like an understanding with

622
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:12,600
a Spartan.
They tend to be male and I get a

623
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,400
way better price.
Than a woman.

624
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,480
No, no, no.
Then like Dave, what?

625
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:18,880
Or you might.
Right.

626
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,720
Or that a woman bartender would
give you.

627
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:24,680
If I were friends with them,
like if you have like a good

628
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,720
relationship with them then.
You get a little nudge nudge.

629
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,200
Well, yeah, It's like, hey, you
know how much I mean, you know,

630
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,160
I'm gonna tip you well so.
I'm sure women and that's that's

631
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,120
a good example.
Women, I think in can really

632
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,200
work that yes scenario.
But I've, I've given people

633
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,280
discounts if I like them on
things like I've, I've done the

634
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,200
same thing.
I'm like like, hey, I can tell

635
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,720
that you're, you know, either
struggling or whatever.

636
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,720
Like pretty women?
So when you're trying to sign

637
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,920
thank, I mean, yes, it's it's
just pretty women all the time.

638
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,120
But I mean, yeah, so like.
That's a good example.

639
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,800
I mean pretty people will get
things that non pretty people

640
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,840
wouldn't.
Absolutely rich.

641
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,960
People gonna get people Not
yeah.

642
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,400
Yeah, like someone who's like,
really crusty and and awful,

643
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,360
like an awful person crusty.
And salty.

644
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,200
Yeah, crusty salty Karen might
have a higher price.

645
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:22,800
Mm.
Hmm.

646
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,040
And.
We hope.

647
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,400
One would help than someone
who's like nice.

648
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,320
I it's.
I know.

649
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,080
I'm definitely going to ask you
about your your example later

650
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,520
because.
So I understand software

651
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,440
companies will charge clients
different amounts for the same

652
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,560
thing.
Like I work.

653
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:49,520
I'm not going to say names.
I am affiliated with a company

654
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,040
who will charge different
amounts for different clients

655
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,320
now there, but there are certain
extenuating circumstances too,

656
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,680
like are they going to be a long
term client?

657
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,280
Do they have other pieces of my
software?

658
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:05,280
Have they referred?
Yes.

659
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,080
Have they used this before?
Like are they like all there's

660
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,960
all lots of different things
that factor.

661
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,040
So I mean that makes sense to
me.

662
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:21,480
So I'm not certainly not judging
there, but 25% times, sorry, not

663
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,760
percent times more or less for
the exact same thing.

664
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,160
No, no, no, no, absolutely not.
I mean, that tells me there's,

665
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,400
there's something else going on
beyond the skews and the

666
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,360
upsells.
I mean, that's way bigger.

667
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,520
Yeah, like what if, what if this
company is actually is actually

668
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:45,640
like created by one of the No,
it sounds to me like that's

669
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,880
yeah, they work hand in hand in.
Tan so none of this information

670
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,520
is speculation either.
So it has been confirmed by

671
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,080
current employees, former
employees, and even a current

672
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,840
customer whose identity is
unknown.

673
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,480
But Ronan interviewed him and
recorded him.

674
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,280
And it was set up by NSO, By the
way, this interview with the

675
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,120
customer has provided that it
was could stay anonymous.

676
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Now, Ronan knows who it is and
he knows what country and

677
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,760
organizations they are.
But of course, he would never

678
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,240
say who that is.
Ronan.

679
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,720
Is a principled.
Man, right.

680
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,920
So this client states that it
only uses uses it if they have a

681
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,760
warrant.
They're using it to intercept

682
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,640
comms with known or suspected
terrorists or nefarious people

683
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,200
and organizations.
Their warrants never mention

684
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:49,120
Pegasus, and in fact would
imagine that no countries using

685
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,720
this project product do.
Most citizens do not even know

686
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:57,640
about the software, much less
know if their country's using

687
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,040
it.
So they don't mention it in

688
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:06,600
these warrants because there's
probably other, I would say

689
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,320
offices or departments that
don't even know it exists.

690
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,800
So they don't want to mention
it, right?

691
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,080
They don't want to say they have
it.

692
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,760
Right.
So there is evidence that

693
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:25,800
Pegasus is being used at least
45 countries 4/5. 45. 45.

694
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,400
Oh my God, is the US one of
them?

695
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:39,080
Wait, don't tell me.
Reveal it so Western, Middle

696
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,720
Eastern, African, Asian,
everywhere, and it's almost

697
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,040
always happening under a veil of
secrecy.

698
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:52,520
Sure.
And in fact, no one may have

699
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,360
even known this software exists
because, again, because it's

700
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,560
100% undetectable.
And if it weren't for a group of

701
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,080
researchers in a University of
Toronto's Citizen Lab in Canada,

702
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,480
no one would even know this
software exists.

703
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:13,720
Shut up, the Canadians come.
Again they come.

704
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,240
Again, like to save.
Us so they have over a decade

705
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,920
been studying pieces of
malicious code things called but

706
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:26,480
they call they call it exploits
in the biz that target

707
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:30,080
vulnerabilities in an operating
system or an application in

708
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,520
order to install spy Ware.
That's what happened with

709
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,280
WhatsApp.
They're also able to find many

710
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:41,320
different vendors, spywares on
target targets phones that were

711
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,000
out in the wild, so to speak.
There was a case of a Saudi

712
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:51,960
woman's right rights activists
who they found Pegasus on her

713
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,480
phone again, human rights.
We talked about it before,

714
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:01,480
another example of why that
excuse the NSO group uses is so

715
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:08,120
suspicious.
You know, the whole no, no,

716
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,640
that's not what it's used for.
Don't worry, nothing to see

717
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,040
here.
Nothing to see here, Don't look

718
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,280
behind the curtain.
We only sell the governments

719
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,680
that use it for crime and and
terrorists.

720
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,040
Liza Minnelli OK, so they have
also determined that someone was

721
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,840
using Pegasus to spy on
politicians and activists on a

722
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,520
massive scale in Spain.
And upon further investigation,

723
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,200
it was determined that a vast
amount of different categories

724
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,160
of people were also being
targeted.

725
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:47,320
Parliament, the government
itself, lawyers, civil leaders,

726
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,280
cultural organizations.
Cultural organizations.

727
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:58,480
OK, Why?
OK, because it all ends.

728
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,600
It all ends up being this whole
political, it was all around

729
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:07,440
political battles had nothing to
do with terrorism.

730
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,560
So after Ronan runs his article
in The New Yorker, after his two

731
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,200
year investigation, the Citizen
Lab publishes their report under

732
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,280
undercover, uncovering the
spying in Spain.

733
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,760
Or it has this, it had this huge
impact.

734
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:32,320
People were panicking in Spain.
Oh my God, Because it had come

735
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,960
to light that this was
happening.

736
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,160
The trainers were using it for
this whole political business

737
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,120
and not terrorism.
It's OK.

738
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,440
So this is how you've seen Mean
Girls, right?

739
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:44,280
No.
Oh, what?

740
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,920
My.
You've got to be kidding me.

741
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:54,560
OK, So if you have lived under a
rock, you know, then then you

742
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,320
have not seen Mean Girls.
But there is there is this scene

743
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,000
at the end of the movie and
there it's called a burn book.

744
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,440
And so the popular girls in
class, they would like write

745
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,720
like mean shit in this book
about people in their school.

746
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,840
Like all seniors like these this
popular click at the end one

747
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,960
like the villain of the story,
takes like all photocopies of

748
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,120
all of the pages in the Burn
Book and just like makes it rain

749
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:25,720
in the hallways.
Of the high school.

750
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,320
To let people read it.
That is what is happening here.

751
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:40,520
So this like Ronan Farrow is
Regina George and just releasing

752
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,960
all of.
The Papers.

753
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,240
Papers and the Spanish
government.

754
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,720
Are shitting themselves.
You said I, I'm not gonna say it

755
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:52,960
'cause it's really disgusting,
but like, like all of these

756
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,920
rumors are coming out.
Oh my God, it's not.

757
00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:00,360
It's not for for the purpose of,
you know, like, you know.

758
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,280
Defending the country?
No.

759
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,280
It's it's because we are all
little like political bitches.

760
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,280
And we are.
Yes.

761
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,920
Like, like the cultural
disgusting.

762
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,360
It's so stupid, so ridiculous.
Matt, people were and people

763
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,640
were.
Pissed.

764
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:19,960
Good.
Pissed.

765
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:30,400
Good.
So people were so outraged that

766
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,640
it they made such a scene that
it had to be investigate.

767
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,400
They had to get to the root of
it.

768
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:44,720
Yeah, and they figured out it
was the offices in Madrid that

769
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:50,720
were doing this because this
little Catalonia they were

770
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:54,600
trying to super secede from.
Spain I was wondering 'cause I

771
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,800
was actually in in Spain around
this time and I remember when.

772
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,360
They were trying to secede and
see all this and then they're

773
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,080
still trying to to stay.
Cause Catalonia makes all the

774
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,000
money.
Yeah, that's why in Madrid was

775
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:07,680
doing this.
Madrid.

776
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:15,280
OK Madrid, I love you, I love
you, I love the people, but stop

777
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,800
it.
Stop it.

778
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,240
Stop.
Stop being little high school

779
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,600
bullies, OK?
We saw how it worked out.

780
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,320
And Mean Girls, it didn't work
out.

781
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,160
I'm not spoiler alert, but
stopping little bitches.

782
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,520
Enjoy your olive oil.
Enjoy tapas.

783
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,520
We all love it.
The seed there, it's amazing.

784
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,440
Come on.
I love, I've been to Madrid, I

785
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,240
love it.
But you.

786
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,640
Don't have to be stopping
little.

787
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,680
Bitches.
Yes, damn it.

788
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:48,520
Count your grapes at midnight.
So now NSO claims that it blocks

789
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,880
the you're gonna you're gonna
like this sentence.

790
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,160
The NSO claims that it blocks
spyware from being installed on

791
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:59,440
any American phone number.
Oh my God, that's so nice of

792
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,080
them.
I'm sure, I'm sure.

793
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Because we're Americans and the
world loves us, right?

794
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,480
Because we're so special.
We're so special.

795
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,560
And like, you know, there's no
like political like, gain or,

796
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,360
you know, or infighting.
Like we're just everyone's

797
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:17,720
favorite.
Exactly.

798
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:22,040
We're the best.
It was actually proven to be

799
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,560
true because Citizen Labs
investigators had an American

800
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:34,040
phone number.
Yeah, they Madrid had targeted

801
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,080
everyone in his family except
him.

802
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,120
They couldn't because he had an
American phone number.

803
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,640
OK, OK, I know why.
Here's my conspiracy theory.

804
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,120
The US government, the US
government for sure, was paying

805
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,520
Pegasus software to not give
foreign adversaries.

806
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,160
Well, remember, Biden had done
that block, yes.

807
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,240
So that was hurting them.
This is a negotiation.

808
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,160
Yeah, that's what this is.
This is a negotiation.

809
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,840
You cannot, you cannot believe
that they don't have the data.

810
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,200
You can't believe there's no,
there's no you.

811
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,320
Can't believe that an American
phone does not have this soft.

812
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:24,560
Not a single American phone
number has this software on it.

813
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,080
I don't believe you.
This is placating like Biden's

814
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,000
like ruling, hey, we don't trust
you, we're not going to use you.

815
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:38,680
You cannot give foreign foreign
governments are people like

816
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,800
anyone who has an American phone
number, their information.

817
00:49:43,240 --> 00:49:44,480
Fine, that's cool.
We'll do it.

818
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,600
And they did, They did.
They've proved that.

819
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,680
They did.
Unless Saudi Arabia pays them $5

820
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,680
billion and then they're like,
here you go.

821
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,160
But see, the problem is many
U.S. government officials have

822
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,840
foreign phone numbers.
Yeah, of course.

823
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:01,480
So.
It doesn't matter.

824
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,920
Doesn't matter, so that who
cares?

825
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,280
So then that doesn't matter.
Don't believe a goddamn word

826
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,480
they're saying, and I'm sure
Ronan didn't.

827
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:12,280
So Apple confirmed that there
have been US diplomats who are

828
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,320
who have been hacked by Pegasus,
and probably because they had a

829
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,120
a foreign phone number.
SIM number, yeah.

830
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:25,360
SIM card, yeah.
But is the US government also a

831
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:30,640
purchaser of Pegasus?
I think the answer is yes.

832
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,520
I think, I think the answer is
hell yes.

833
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,680
And they probably were one of
the first fucking companies to

834
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,000
or first countries to do it once
it was proven.

835
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,720
And they probably like gave
money to this software company.

836
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,560
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, come on.

837
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:54,000
So the FBI administrator says,
well, we bought a trial license.

838
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,640
We did.
We we, we did a trial.

839
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,720
Back in the day when they were
just a start up.

840
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,600
I'm going to test it out, want
to see what it's about.

841
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,600
Yeah.
But I mean, that was the end of

842
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,240
it.
We just have to know what the

843
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:07,000
kids are doing.
They just.

844
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,760
Have to know yeah, I know what
it's about.

845
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:17,520
So that's all so like I said
before, it would be absolutely

846
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,880
dumb not to have her use this
product.

847
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,560
I mean it's.
You have to use it.

848
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,560
Just how you have to.
Dirty, dirty games.

849
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:29,160
Dirty games?
Exactly.

850
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,920
Other countries, terrorists,
other naughty boys and girls

851
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,760
would have a tremendous
advantage if we did not.

852
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,800
But do you really want the FBI
to be able to hack your phone

853
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:49,520
for any reason they see fit?
It's not hard to say we suspect

854
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:55,160
you of XYZ, therefore you are
applicable.

855
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,000
You fall in the rules of Pegasus
hacking.

856
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,080
And by the way, if we're not
sure at that time, we are going

857
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,640
to find any kind of information
we can and use it against jail

858
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,360
of course in a court of law
it's.

859
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:14,200
A court of law, even if someone
with power and money, once you

860
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,800
tracked, they will find a
reason.

861
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:17,680
I will.
They'll find.

862
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,440
Like you said, they will find my
reason and it's so it's this

863
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,200
catch 22.
It's like this rock and hard

864
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,520
place sort of thing.
Like like I said before, there's

865
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:27,320
no answer.
I have no answer.

866
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,400
There is no OK, well I have a
question for your no answer.

867
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,640
OK, Faraday bags.
Have you heard of those?

868
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,920
Yes.
Yeah, it's like, it's kind of

869
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,760
like tinfoil.
Like a mesh tinfoil bag.

870
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,200
So you like you put your phone
in there and.

871
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,640
Those totally work.
They actually work.

872
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,360
They actually work.
I've been, yeah.

873
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,480
They work.
You hear it, You hear it here.

874
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,640
First friends probably last, but
still get a Faraday bag.

875
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,680
They work.
They're like, you know, I don't

876
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,800
know how expensive on Amazon.
Until you're actually using it,

877
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,480
and then you can't use it in a
Faraday bag.

878
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:02,840
That's right.
That's right.

879
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,560
So the really thing you're only
saving yourself from is them

880
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:10,440
turning on your mic and your
camera when you're not using it.

881
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,760
That's the that's what all you'd
be saving yourself from.

882
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,960
Which let me be honest, I really
don't need If for any reason I

883
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,640
don't need advertisers like when
I'm looking up granny panties

884
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,440
like best place to get granny.
Panties.

885
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,160
Or when you're talking to your
friend about granny panties and

886
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,160
then you open Google and there's
granny panties.

887
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,720
Yeah.
You're like, come on, it's it.

888
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,280
We all need a granny panty
moment.

889
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,280
We all need a good cotton
underwear.

890
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,800
I don't need these
advertisements all over the

891
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,880
place for them because it makes
me sad.

892
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,680
OK, so get a Faraday bag if you
don't want keep your

893
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,240
conversation.
Yeah, Yeah, if you don't want

894
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:52,880
Amazon ad ads for granny
panties.

895
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:01,080
So on March 27th, 2023, Biden
issues executive order to

896
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:06,720
prohibit government use of
commercial spyware that has been

897
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:10,240
misused by foreign actors to
enable human rights abuses

898
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:12,960
overseas.
Oh interesting.

899
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:21,200
So if your spyware impacted
Americans, impacted other civil

900
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:27,520
rights people, or is a threat to
national security, then you're

901
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,200
banned.
Huh.

902
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:35,840
I mean.
But that's not a ban on all spy

903
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,960
Ware.
I mean it's kind of it's, it

904
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:44,000
doesn't ban all spy Ware.
And if there's one thing that we

905
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,840
have learned, it's like I said
before, the president is a

906
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:50,760
temporary employee.
Sure.

907
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,920
And.
Yeah, what he says is temporary.

908
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,680
Temporary we've.
Seen that?

909
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,680
Yes, temporary.
And it's not these like like the

910
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:06,640
people who work in these like
tenured positions, they don't,

911
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,040
they'll follow the rules or
whatever, but they play by their

912
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:10,640
own rules.
They create their own rules.

913
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,560
And they don't they're they're
they're not up for

914
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,040
congressional, you know, exactly
like subpoenas and shit.

915
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,520
Exactly.
Doesn't fucking matter.

916
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,200
Exactly.
It's a it's a nice thought.

917
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,520
So.
Here's So here's what really

918
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:31,000
actually frightens me.
Authoritarian practices are

919
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:42,080
really starting to spread
rampant in IMHO in my honest.

920
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:42,920
Opinion.
Yeah.

921
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,440
Yeah.
And it's all kind of under this

922
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,120
guise of safety.
And we're looking out for you.

923
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,560
And it's what's best for the
United States of America.

924
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:02,000
It's what our founding fathers
would want, all that kind of

925
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,440
stuff.
National Defense.

926
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:14,280
And as we move more and more
into AI technology, it keeps

927
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:20,000
getting better and better and
quicker and quicker, and this

928
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,840
activity is just going to get
more and more intrusive and

929
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:25,920
prolific.
Yes.

930
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,320
And it's still largely
unregulated category of

931
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:33,680
technology.
Absolutely, Absolutely.

932
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,680
There's no regulations on this
stuff.

933
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,200
There's the regulations that
happen on technology in general

934
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,520
are typically.
Like in general.

935
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,040
Years behind where the current
technology is.

936
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,640
And that will always be very
desirable for law enforcement to

937
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,280
impose a threat on human rights.
As long as we have phones like

938
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,680
it's an easy.
It's a great target.

939
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,920
Target, we will always, always
have phones.

940
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:01,440
And if we don't have phones,
we're going to have something

941
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,560
else.
We will have some other

942
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:06,920
connective piece of technology.
That makes it easy to be

943
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,760
surveilled.
That makes it easy to to be

944
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,280
watched.
I would Speaking of watched, I

945
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,040
stopped wearing my apples.
Because of this.

946
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,600
I like I'm I am not messing
around.

947
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:26,360
I don't trust anything and like
this Faraday, like I, I've been

948
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,920
thinking about getting one
because I like if, if

949
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,840
advertisers are able to read
like or listen to what it is

950
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,680
that I am saying in my private
conversations, then and I'm

951
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:44,440
being like targeted ads.
Like why, why would someone else

952
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,640
not like hack into my system or
whatever.

953
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:53,120
Like right now TikTok is being,
it was just like purchased by an

954
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:56,120
American company that's working
with the government, right?

955
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,840
Like I don't trust any of this,
this authoritarian like, you

956
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,680
know, cool, you know, the thing
that's happening right now, all

957
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:09,640
sarcasm.
It is is is not something I

958
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,040
trust and I've stopped wearing
tech.

959
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,200
I will not have a Google like I
have like a Google dot system.

960
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,960
I'm switching out of Google Home
and having something that is

961
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,520
monitored in my house.
Yeah, kind of.

962
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,200
Like home?
Assistant on home assistant?

963
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:28,960
Yes, I, I've, I've been building
on that.

964
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,040
Yeah, I like that.
So it's like and like these are

965
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,000
things friends, if you can start
thinking about what you're

966
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,880
using, the technology that
you're using and being

967
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,800
intelligent about it like this
is important.

968
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,840
It like if you are talking out
or speaking out against you know

969
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,040
something that you.
Believe, just expect that you're

970
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,800
listened to.
That's that's the thing.

971
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:52,920
You just, you have to be just
believe that you everything you

972
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,560
say is not private.
Yeah, and it hasn't been for

973
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,680
advertisers, let's be honest.
Like it's not like what you're

974
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:00,880
saying is private anyways.
That's why we have fucking

975
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,040
granny panties constantly.
So does.

976
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,760
But but yeah, this is a very
important thing.

977
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,120
It's a very important topic, and
I think that we should really

978
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,800
start looking at how we're
utilizing technology.

979
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,720
Do we really need to have it all
the time?

980
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,640
Can I leave my phone
occasionally when I go to the

981
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,360
grocery store?
I think I probably can.

982
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:21,400
I think you.
Probably can live.

983
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,720
I think you could probably wear
an analog watch.

984
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,480
They're great.
By the way, boys and girls,

985
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,720
there was a time when we didn't
have it and we all survived just

986
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,360
fine.
Yes, just fine.

987
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,200
You know what, I'm kind of
curious to see if there are any

988
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,040
people who are using, you know,
more analogue technology.

989
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,600
Maps like paper maps and
analogue watches.

990
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,920
Yeah, like a watch.
Have you guys made the switch?

991
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,680
Like that's what I'm very
curious about.

992
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,880
Yeah, I would be curious to hear
about people that are doing that

993
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,640
too.
Yeah, I I will be the first to

994
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:55,120
admit that would be very
difficult for me.

995
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:59,040
You are a technophile.
I am a technophile like.

996
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,960
Deep.
You have no idea.

997
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:06,840
Kevin's like whole house.
Is is like just pimped out.

998
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,960
Pimped tape.
Tape.

999
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:10,960
But you know what?
Here's the thing.

1000
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:13,320
But you know what?
Here's the thing too.

1001
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,640
Let me say this.
Remember your thought?

1002
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,520
I would feel like I'd be happy
living in a cabin in the

1003
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,120
mountains.
That's what I was just going to,

1004
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,280
I was going to actually kind of
allude to that, Like, do we

1005
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,240
really need all of this
information at our fingertips?

1006
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,640
Is it kind of adding to a
distraction, like rather than

1007
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,320
living in the moment, like, hey,
it's really nice to not have a

1008
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,720
notification on my.
It really is.

1009
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,920
My wrist and I kind of like the
look of like a little blinged

1010
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,920
out launch, like it's solar
powered.

1011
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,360
I can see the date, I can see
the the like.

1012
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,680
It's a little, it's a citizen.
It's a literal watch.

1013
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,360
It's a normal watch.
I'm not as stressed out day by

1014
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,560
day, you know?
It's not reminding you that

1015
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,520
you're not meeting goals.
Not meeting goals.

1016
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,480
I haven't stood it up enough.
You know, I have not gotten off

1017
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,600
my fucking ass like all day.
But but that's what's the thing.

1018
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:05,160
Like maybe, maybe there's going
to be a change or a turn on,

1019
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,520
like utilizing technology not
just because we can, but maybe

1020
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,840
because we want to and we're
being more thoughtful about it.

1021
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:14,720
I feel like it.
I feel like that'll happen.

1022
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,520
I hope so.
This is a great episode and I

1023
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,200
have so many questions to ask
you after this.

1024
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,320
Great.
And I feel like there are so

1025
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,280
many questions I have to ask all
these people.

1026
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,000
Yeah, maybe we'll do it on
TikTok.

1027
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,000
OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can ask
more questions, yeah.

1028
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,400
So make sure and visit us on on
our website, yes, on the

1029
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,880
dasariif.com, we're on TikTok,
yes, So yeah.

1030
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:38,840
And we're asking questions,
yeah.

1031
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,280
And post to us.
Let us know what you want to ask

1032
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,000
us and.
Yeah, like, how are you

1033
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:46,360
utilizing technology?
I'm, I'm like, fucking so

1034
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,160
curious, especially in these
days and age, this day and age.

1035
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,840
This was such a great episode.
Cool.

1036
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,560
And it's so like so pertinent
right now.

1037
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,480
Yeah.
So thank you for doing.

1038
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:56,720
That.
Yeah.

1039
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:57,920
You're welcome.
You're welcome.

1040
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,080
All right, well, we'll we'll
chat soon.

1041
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,000
Yes.
OK.

1042
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:01,960
We'll see you later.
See ya.

1043
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:02,680
Bye.