Paranormal Investigators

0:01 Hello, Bizarre Story friends, you've tuned into the Bizarre AF, a place where we talk about the strange, the unusual, the unknown, and all things bizarre AF. I'm Kevin. I'm going to be your host for today's episode. As always, we ask that you keep an open mind, keep a skeptical ear, but keep listening to the facts as we take you on our newest journey hunting the already dead paranormal investigators.

0:58 Well hello hello hello my Co host S with the most S Alicia. Hey, girl. How? Are you? I'm good. I'm loving this new setup. It's very different. Digging it, yeah. Yeah, I think it's good. It's it's, it's a very different like feel, different vibe, different vibe, but still like in the same family, which is good. Yeah, I think, you know, it's time if you're not watching. It's just we we moved into a different room. It's less like studio ish and a little bit more like intimate, yes, but I think it'll grow.

1:38 I'll look over time like we'll make it. For sure, yeah, you know, yeah, I mean, the last studio was built over like how much time Yeah, exactly. And yeah. So yeah, it's it definitely feels a little bit different, but I I like the brighter vibes. I think it's really fun. You too. And I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying a different space like. Exactly. Something different and interesting. Cool. We're like butterfly, we're like caterpillars, you know? Going into butterfly loving, Yeah. Cool. So what do you know about P is or paranormal Investigators? Do you ever watch any of those shows? Yes, they used to be like, like back before years ago, it used to just be like one shows like Ghost Hunters or something, right.

2:26 And then Ghost Adventures came out and can I, can I like tell you something when I like, hate admitting, Yeah. And like, this is like, honestly, shame on me, but I kind of have like a weird thing for Zach Bagans, who's in Ghost Ghost Adventures. Yeah, I think I know who that. Is yeah, he's like the total bro, like douchey dude, the douchey, Yeah, but I'm like, oh, I kind of like it. I kind of like it. I used. I used to have like dreams about him. Like when the show was first, I was like, Oh my God. OK, Zach, like it, It was like it was like a very yeah, it was a though there were there were different vibes for sure.

3:07 But do I recognize? Yeah, he's an idiot. I mean, is a lot of that shit fake? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But yeah, kind of love it, Yeah. Yeah, that. And that's just it too. Like, a lot of that stuff can be very made for TV, but some of it is truly legit. And so ghost hunting, or as you know, we'll refer to it here, paranormal investigating, which is a bit more fancy of a word. And for short, I might say Pi, right, I thought. You were going to say like private investigator? Yeah, right. This is paranormal investigators, what I'm going to mean. And so really it's the practice of investigating locations that are, you know, purported to be haunted by apparitions or or spirits.

4:05 But generally it's done by things that are can't be explained typically is why you bring them in in this field. It mixes a lot of folklore with ancient techniques, but also new technology, which, you know, I'm a total nerd. Right. Yeah. So when the the technology stuff comes in, I'm like hails, yes. You're all about it. All about it, yeah. But you know, when you mix these together, like take Voodoo, for example, where we talked about that, we talked about the origin of that and how it's kind of a blend of the Catholic symbols and the rituals with more of the West African beliefs and the techniques and things like that. And you know, that's what made all the rich white people suckers.

5:01 Right. For it, right? So I think that's what happens, like kind of with this too. Like you start mixing all of that folklore stuff and then those ancient techniques with the new technology. It just makes people, you know, fascinated by it. Right. It's unexplained and often times people are looking for answers, right? Well, that's the bottom line. Yeah, yeah. So, so you let's say there's some kind of unexplained thing or they're you're trying to reach out to like a a loved one who tragically died. Like you're going to try to seek any kind of person who says that they know what the fuck they're talking about about this because no one does. And you start getting into the world of pseudoscience. Yes, yes, and scammers. Scammers, yeah.

5:46 Unfortunately, yeah. That's a huge piece of it. So in this episode, we're going to talk about the different methods that the P is employ in their work. And it's going to be ranging from old traditional practices to this, you know, all this new modern technological approaches. Now, as I mentioned before, investigators will generally focus on events and experiences that really lack a conventional explanation. It's generally why they're also why they're brought in. And this includes the sightings of apparitions, unexplained noises or objects moving without apparent cause. Yeah, have you ever seen an apparition, Alicia? OK I I've seen some shit I cannot explain. I used to work at the Denver Art Museum and it was probably my favorite job if I could actually get paid real money to do what I would do.

6:45 But because I love art anyway, it was, there was this point in time where there was a lot of weird shit happening in the in the museum. And it's well known to all of the the security guards that there's like some weird shit. So people were seeing things at that point in time. One woman saw like a Victorian, like a woman with like really high neckline inside the bathroom and she thought it was a front like one of the managers and no one would go down. There was like at the end of the night. So everyone was kicked out dressed up in like Victorian, like a Victorian outfit. So crazy sounds. Like Ghostbusters? Yeah. And so I had like around that time was like within like a two week span, a lot of weird shit was happening at the museum and I had something follow me home and Dave and I were.

7:32 Wait, how do you know? You know, OK, so first, like a, you know, when you OK, like when you were a teenager, you'd like, I would fall asleep during class would, had you done that before, 'cause you know, you'd stay up late or something and like, or you fall asleep in some kind of public space and you can feel people looking at you. Like for me it was like during class like you could feel people like looking at me and. Judging you? Or just like it's just like, yes, judging you. Like, why are you falling asleep? It's like, well, let me tell you, But you know, you fall asleep like, you know, and you can feel people, like, staring at you. And so it causes you to wake up. It's like a different sense.

8:13 So I had that sense that someone was staring at me. And Dave and I had just moved into this new place and we had literally moved like our bed in and like a couple of boxes and like a couch. So there's like not much in it. And it's straight shot into two windows that like our our bedroom, like you could see right into the living room straight ahead. There were like 2 windows right below a a street light. And so like the street light illuminated like those windows and there were just a couple of boxes that were like stacked, but I saw, I felt like something was looking at me and I just like woke up and I looked like out to the living room. And because I couldn't, I didn't shake off when I when I woke up, I looked out to the living room and I saw like this, like it looks like a child with like a white floppy bow on the side of her head staring at me.

9:13 And it was. It wasn't. Like could you? How far away was she? It was probably like 20 feet away, 25 feet away, 2025. So close. Pretty close. Yeah, it was pretty close. It was it was a one bedroom apartment and literally it was like kind of like a hallway. So like it went, you know, living room. The kitchen was right over and then, you know, bathroom and bedroom were like right like down kind of like a little little hallway, but. She wasn't like shimmery, transparent. Not shimmery, you know, You know when you wake up and you're it's like black and white and like you can't like because it's dark like you, your eyes can't really see color. So it felt like that, but I knew no one was there. I knew that we did not have children. There was no one short, and I knew a lot of weird shit was going on.

10:06 It freaked me the fuck out. And I tried waking up Dave. I was like, David, David, wake up. There's something. He's like, you're fine, just go back to sleep. And I'm like, how the fuck am I going to go back to sleep after seeing that? You're like, oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, since you're saying so. But I'm like, fuck it, what do I do? Classic thing. Throw the fucking covers over your head. And I just like, kind of curled into Dave and like, I was like, whatever. Like there's like literally nothing. Yeah, I'm like, just fucking fall asleep. Chill out. Like it's fine. You can't do anything about it. And the next night I felt like it was staring right next to me. Like like I was. It was right next to my bed this time. Oh fuck.

10:46 That yeah. And so I talked to one of my friends. I was like, what the fuck do I do? And she's like, oh, I have stuff like this happen all the time. She was like kind of psychic and I was like, whatever. She was fucking kind of weird too. But like, and now she's a she. She does like undertaking and stuff like like. Like an undertaker. Yeah, like does like. Mortuary like stuff. Yeah. Which, like, totally fucking figures because that's exactly the type of person she has. Anyways, she told me, you know, you have to say like you're not allowed to come home with me, like I'm sure. Oh yeah, intentions, right? Yeah. And so I did. I was like, you're not allowed. You need to stay at the Art Museum. It's not. You're not welcome here. And after that second night, I didn't have anything happen to me.

11:26 Really. Yeah. Yeah, they say it's tied to like the Victorian, the kids Victorian house on and like in the if you're at in Denver, the Denver Art Museum, there's a a Victorian child's like Playhouse and it's in the European section of in the old building. But that's what. Full on reconstructed dollhouse. It's a dollhouse. It's a dollhouse, like. You could walk in. No, you can't walk into it. It's like a child. Oh, it's like. You could play with your dolls. Gotcha. Yes, from the Victorian era, Gotcha. And so a lot of people, there's a lot of activity on that floor and a lot of people think that that's where it's. Coming. It's attached. Yes, whatever it is is attached to that dollhouse.

12:08 So yeah, you can go and see it. Yeah, but people say that fucking thing is haunted, and I can say that like something fucking happened. Wow. Yeah. Have you had anything like that happen? No, but I want to do you know so. So for you, for the listeners, we God, I called you Roy, Alicia and I went to Grant. What's Glenwood Springs stayed in the Hotel Colorado. Nothing happened. No, we were like. Determined to catch. Yeah, we were determined to catch like a ghost and or like. Not even a bump in the night. Nothing. Well shit, going down the fucking. Down the sewer drain.

12:50 The sewer drain right next to my head, which I was telling you. Remember that? So we had a room and like it was 2 queen beds and mine is like near I don't like to sleep near the door so I made Kevin see text to the door. Fuck like so that if someone comes in and I get killed first. Exactly. But you did it, so I told you that you're fine with it. So I But I'm I'm laying down next to the shit tube which in the corner. Mind you, these rooms are not like. Oh my God. Cheap no. Yeah, yeah. We were like, we walked in and we were like, we had a million. We still haven't even created that like. We still need to do, yeah.

13:37 The review but anyways, I like woke up I'm like, oh, I said actually it wasn't that bad like sleeping last night. I said I, I, I like, I like falling asleep to like running water, like, like, you know, like, like, like, you know, rain and stuff. And you're like, and I was like, and there was like something. And he's like Kevins, like, yeah, you mean the shit that's going by right next to your fucking head? I looked him like, well, thanks. Fuck. Oh my God it's like BIG4 inch diameter too that run down the side of the wall. Massive. It's. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. And you're paying. We're paying. Oh my. God, it was so preposterous and we didn't even get a ghost. We didn't even get a ghost.

14:20 That's really the fucking point. That was the point, yeah, nothing. So to answer your question, no to. Answer your question. I was attempting that, but no, no. Yeah, OK. So they so also PIS a good Pi kernel investigator and they will start their investigation by researching, you know, the history of the location. They want to understand like what's happened and cover the past events in it, in the at the location, different energies. That could potentially be there. Sure, of course.

15:02 Which exactly? It can explain things, helps explain the phenomena. They'll study old records, interview witnesses, all of that, just to get the background before they do all of that flashy shenanigans. Right, right, Evps. And like, oh, Gimme a start. But it would make sense that they need to have like some kind of like base, base knowledge of the area that they're. In a good one would right? Sure, yes. So they try to be a good Again, I'm talking about good, valid paranormal investigators, not the ones that are just doing it to be famous. A la Zac Bay.

15:51 A la yeah, a la D bag. So they try to be systematic, methodical, analyze their findings, be very critical. And then while searching for paranormal causes, credible investigators will also consider an attempt to rule in natural explanations. I mean, you don't want to just go it's of whatever, yes. Right, right. If it's a shit tube right next to you, how do you want to be like a shit? Literally a shit tube. So a critical aspect of paranormal investigation.

16:31 They again have to be very systematic and they're going to use again, the, the, the knowledge of the historical past plus now, and every time it gets a little bit better, more technology. And we're going to talk about each of the types of tools that a investigator can use in their investigation. So we're going to talk about first the tradition, kind of the traditional stuff. So have you ever? Do you know what a divination rod is? OK, yes, and, and this is where our 4th wall once again breaks because we did a little bit of this when we were in Glenwood Springs.

17:30 And if you go on to our, if you go on to our TikTok, you'll see Kevin using it. So there's a woman on TikTok and I think she also has a YouTube like, I don't know, some kind of crazy name. It's like soul Shine, you know, spiritualist or something, I don't know. Like like. She she has these dousing rods, or what did you call them, divination rods? Divination rods, Yeah. Or divining rods. Spirit rods, Yeah. Dousing rods. Lots of. Names. Yeah, yeah. But like, she holds them and she'll ask, like, questions. And it might be like, who's gonna win the election? Like, or, or is Kamala here?

18:13 Yeah, so. So it's always yes or no questions. And you're holding on to these rods and they move back and forth. And so we did our own little spoof of. Yeah, we sure did. But see, she's so very serious. She's incredibly serious, incredibly. Submit questions to her yes, and she will answer them using the dousing rods. Or the dousing rods. Yes or no or like undecided or something or like no answer. No answer. Yeah, no. Answer, they don't move right. So like it goes anywhere between like, you know, practical, like question like will, you know, will the you know, who's going to win the the 2024 election or you know, to something crazy like did was Jesus an alien in like this? You know, whatever any yes, no question you can imagine. It's it's insane.

19:04 It's crazy. So like that's, that's one of the ways that I know about divination was and like, didn't they used to like discover water? Yeah, yeah. That's. Why? I think that's what they were. That's how I used. That's how I always knew them until, I mean, not recently, but I knew that after. Later I realized, oh, they're using those to connect to spirits. Right, right. So it's just. Fascinating. It's like a communication. Which I guess that makes sense. Like if you if you can use physical objects to somehow communicate with another dimension or spirits, then why not rods? I mean, like, you know what I mean? And the idea is that it's easier to move. I think I've told you the story about trying to move the crystal in the in the glass, right?

19:52 It's the same thing, like the idea that's free form. So it's easier to move than, you know, a boulder. Right, right. It's a little bit easier. You can concentrate on it, yeah. And it does, yeah. It doesn't take as much energy, Right, Right. So if you're, you know, communicating with spirits, they're dead. They don't have as much energy to like put forth. Right, yes, I guess this is the the the idea. Yes, trigger objects. So trigger object is an item placed in a location with the intention of attracting a spirit. Oh yeah. Ghost hunters choose objects that may have significance to the spirit, such as a personal belonging or a toy or something like that.

20:37 Then this object is monitored for movement or other signs of interaction with which are considered evidence of a ghostly presence. Now, if you remember, we talked about something similar on Flight 401 that episode and how the planes that were used, they used parts of the plane from Flight 4 O one in other planes. And then for those planes, people reported apparitions and sightings because the energy was attached to those pieces. Yes, yes. So same kind of I guess concept with the trigger objects. It helps especially like mediums. If if Pis use mediums then they can bring a medium and they would also help them. You can use trigger trigger objects. Right.

21:21 Even Tyler Henry, who does like love the second. Love the yeah. I love him too. He's not only he just. Freaking adorable. He's so adorable and he's so sweet, so sweet. But he he often times will have trigger items just to like connect to an energy or something. Exactly. Or, or like places like, you know, you might have like toys where kids used to be to like potentially, yeah. Right, right. Exactly. OK then of course there are things that we all or know about and we see them on TV. Seances and seances are gatherings where participants attempt to communicate with spirits, often with the help of of a medium. And this practice involves a group of people sitting in a circle, sometimes with their hands joined. They create this connection to the spirit world and then seances have been used.

22:26 This is the 19th century. I mean, like very ancient, you know, old practice. Now we did an episode a long while ago and we also talked about, I can't remember what the episode was, something ghost specific, but we talked about how they would use these seances and these boards, chalkboards and stuff. Yes, but it was a scam. Yes, it was a total scam. It was. It wasn't communicating with the Spirit. Yes, that was the episode. Yeah, yes, Yeah. Well, they would use complete trickery to get people out of it was money it? Was really just manipulation of people like that was that like, and it was during the Victorian era, which like people were all, yes, super gullible and like, spiritualism was a huge thing. But yeah, seances aren't necessarily like a bad or like, you know, you, they can be used like a like a medium, like maybe someone like Tyler Henry who is, would that technically be a seance?

23:28 Like let's say Tyler Henry was in a group reading. No, because I think a seance involves, you know, that's a good question though, because. Yeah, what's like the difference? But what is the difference? Because this says the practice involves a group of people sitting in a circle, sometimes hands join to create a connection to the spirit world, where as what Tyler does, I guess he typically, well, he's not always, but he does sometimes do the group where he tries to get lots of spirits in. But yeah, I mean, that's a good question. Like what defines a seance versus, you know, a medium being at the group of people? That's interesting question. I don't know. I don't. I mean, I think when it comes to like a medium, a medium is like someone who can talk directly with, you know, a group of people. Maybe a seance is where everyone's energy is being used in order to allow that like, conversation happening. I don't fucking know, sorry.

24:26 OK, then there's spirit writing. Yes. Now spirit writing also, this is known as automatic writing or psychography, which you've also talked about before. And this is a psychic ability that allows people to write words without being conscious of it. And practitioners believe that spirits are manipulating their hand while holding a writing instrument like a pen or a pencil. Now, typically, a paranormal investigator typically wouldn't have this ability. So this is when they would. Paranormal investigators will generally get the help of a psychic or a medium, and then the medium or the psychic would use this particular skill.

25:11 I've tried this before with my mom when I was young. Yeah. You did this like when you were like 7 or something, you and your mom would do it. We'd actually do it. Yeah. And this was like something we had talked about quite a few times that you guys had been doing it and you would get answers. I would actually do it. Yeah. My dad actually remembers me doing it. And I, I think my dad remembers his, what we call you call your guide or your spirit guide's name. I would ask his name. I think it was Alan, because. And then, yes, we tried to do spirit writing and then it felt like an Allen.

25:53 It was an Allen that came through. But it wasn't spirit writing, was it? I think that it was. Was it the Ouija board that we used? Oh, it was the Ouija board. Yeah. Which is another one. That was the next one. So Speaking of a Ouija board, if you don't know, is this is flat board. It's marked with letters and numbers, and it's used to communicate with the spirits by spelling out a message. So the participants will hold, but then we'll touch a a planchette. It's a little triangular device, has a window in it, and all the participants will lightly touch it. And the idea is that you ask questions and the spirits would spell out the response, hovering the window over a letter. There's also a yes and a no.

26:42 Now, despite the tremendous skepticism, this is actually one of the most common tools with ghost hunting when they pull in a medium. Oh, it's a Ouija board. Really. Yes. I don't know why I did not think that I would have thought that. Yeah, that I guess like, but I guess it's. Almost like yeah, exactly. Spirit world texting. Yeah, yeah, which is a lot easier than like trying to have someone like interpret data or information, or trying to read someone's shitty handwriting. Yes, yes, other and yeah, I guess unless you can't do like what? What was his name? The blonde cute blonde guy. Oh, Tyler Henry. Yeah, who actually gets, I guess, pictures and images and can kind of, rather than having to, you know, be spelled out the words, he can actually see them.

27:30 And yes, yeah. Yeah, and he has to interpret. Interpret like the interpret. It. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what divination is? I always get divination confused. Is is divination where? That doesn't have to do with numbers, does it? That's the, you know, with a divination mat and a divination pendulum and crystal. Yes, I do know that, yeah. This one I don't fully understand. I guess it's the same concept as like I was talking about before, when you can start moving things with your mind and a crystal on a chain is easier than, you know, a heavy object or some object. But I'm not fully sure what's supposed to happen if you hold it.

28:24 Is the crystal literally supposed to RIP RIP RIP or you know what I mean? So I've done, I had a friend who was really into it for a while and for years. So she would do it. We'd ask it questions and stuff like. That. But, and she would use it and like, here's the, here's the thing. So the idea behind it is that like the properties within the crystal or the what is it fucking called? Like like whatever, like type of rock or stone, it is like they're able to manipulate or like utilize the, the energy within that. Like it's just easier for it to move through. Like the energy to move through almost like maybe acting as if it's a battery that can be moved like a battery like so it can hold energy and then move it. So when you're holding onto the pendulum, you're, you're balancing it and it's hanging off of a chain. But here's the problem with that. It's those involuntary movements that you have. That make yes that it's the crystal moving. Yes, yes, yes.

29:24 So it's like like just a little slight like, you know, shake of your hand or let's say you're holding it up against like your knee or something and your legs slightly moving or your heart's beating fast like I'm assuming that's going to move it. And So what it what the pendulum will do is it'll like go around in a circle. It will arc like from one side to the next go like maybe it'll go left and right or like forwards and backwards like, you know, those are like the different ways that it can go. And then people will find out what their yeses and their nose are. So you're still asking like the dowsing rods like the same yes or nose questions. It's not like texting. Yeah, and those divination mats, I think they just have more options. They do so like that swings over to a yes or to a no or to maybe or sure or like ask, you know, like a magic 8 ball. Yeah Magic 8 ball.

30:14 That's next time I let I'm just. Kidding. How did you know this is another definition tool? OK so but now let's talk about more modern technological methods. OK so one of them is an EMF or electromagnetic field meter. And now this one measures electromagnetic fields which ghost hunters believe can indicate presidents presence of a spirit. Now, the theory is that spirits disrupt the natural electromagnetic field, and that's what causes the fluctuations and the spikes, and they can be detected by this meter. And I don't know if you've ever pardon me, I don't know if you've ever probably not done electrical work. No.

31:12 Not recently. Kevin, I don't work with my hands, not like that. So there's this thing where you can use it to detect if a wire is hot or not, and all you have to do is just kind of hold it up and it will go off. If there's like something passing through it, whether it be electricity or data, you can use it for data cable like. OK. Or what about like Christmas lights? You can tell if something. That's and that's a good example. Yes, they have that too, like the Christmas light bulb fixer and you can go is this 1 burnt? Is this 1 burnt? Yeah, same find the one that's burnt. Same concept. Yeah, same concept. Well, this is the same thing. Like it detects electromagnetic fields. They're just in a much better range. But those you have to hold, like hold, literally hold up to the cable with these.

31:57 Like, you know, it's much broader, right? We played with one and like, it can detect some weird shit. Like at one point we thought the kids acting weird. Yeah, we could not we. It was like going really fucking high, like the. The brand like for no reason. No reason we didn't move it or anything. But then we're like, OK, well, was was something like we had a Cam or I don't know, it was the microphone, wireless microphone or something. We like, we chalked it up to that, yes, but that's see that's the problem with these things like there's too many things in our air, right that can affect that and that, you know, microwaves and radio signals and cellular. Signals.

32:46 And satellites that are like too much. Well, yeah, I think that like that could, could have been a great tool had we been, you know, even like 30 years ago. Exactly. But today I've like, I don't know, I have fucking, I have an Apple Watch. I have, you know, Bluetooth. I have an iPad. Bluetooth, that's a great example that radiates like 30 feet, right, right. So. So it's so if you're, yeah, if you're trying to like good luck, go out into Podunk, wherever and hope. Exactly. But like, yeah, I don't know how reliable they are. Have you tried using that the EMF detector? Not beyond when we were at the hotel, no again, 'cause I'm like, there's, there's too many variables. I couldn't trust it like to be, oh, what's going off? It's a spirit.

33:40 No, there's too much shit in my house, especially my house. I know your house. It's my house is crazy. Yeah, in a good way. OK, then there's EVPS which is electronic voice phenomenon. Yes, your favorite. My favorite thing ever. They're so great. You are obsessed with Evps, Yes. Like Kevin sends me Evps like multiple times a week and I'm like Kevin Layoff. This is not saying anything. Oh my God. So Evps refer to sounds found on electronic recording devices that are interpreted as spirit voices.

34:23 Ghost hunters use digital recorders to capture ambient sounds, later analyzing recordings for voices or noises that were not heard during the recording session. Now, some ghost hunters believe that spirits can communicate through these recordings. What do you think about EV? PS Alicia. I don't. Know OK, so do I think that like EV PS are something that like people that, you know, spirits could potentially like, you know communicate through like I think that there are like, you know potentially radio signals like things that like they can potentially manipulate. I think that there's also the idea of suggestion, which we've talked about in our Mandela Effect podcast. We talk about how suggestibility is pretty strong and like, how easy even for, like, lip readers and stuff to misinterpret what's being said or to make something out of nothing. Right?

35:23 Like, it's so easy for us. Like, if someone says, hey, what does this say? You're like, OK, well, it says something. If someone's telling me it says something, then I have to figure out, oh. Yeah, yeah. That that could be it. Yeah, it says Auntie Am, I want to come home. You know, like you're like, oh, yeah, Actually, I do hear that. I do. Hear Auntie AM. Yeah, what the heck. But in reality, like I, I think that I would love to believe it. It's one of those things that I would love to believe. But in reality it I just don't think it's I, I don't, I don't buy it. I don't buy it. Like, I've seen some television or some, you know, like ghost hunter shows where the, you know, all this obviously has to be recorded for television and they'll play back and you can literally hear something say, you know, like, get out. Yeah, Like, it's pretty clear.

36:16 Yes. So I, I think that kind of exists. But like 99.999% of the time, I think this is exactly what you said. It's just suggestion. Yeah, it's incredibly rare. Yeah, I think incredibly rare. And and again, Flight 4 O1, we talked about this and I kind of go off on a tangent about this, a hole that tries to convince you about something that's not real. And I think it's just just it, it's just trying to convince you. Yeah, just. Have you seen the thing on TikTok? Bad lip reading. Yes, yeah, yeah. It's the best. It's so good. And you?

36:56 See the one about like where they do like Senate hearings and stuff. Oh yeah, they'll do it on everything, right? It looks real. You're like, Oh my God, they literally said my I have a tack in my flip flop. Yeah, yeah. You're like, why would they say that? They're wearing like flip flops. That just goes to your point like. Suggestibility, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we all know it's fake, right? It's intended. But my point being is that it looks, it looks exactly like what they're saying. Yeah, but it goes to show like, like, OK, so you have all these tools in a toolbox, right? Like some of them are going to be useful at sometimes and some of them just won't be right. Like you don't need a fucking soccer wrench for everything. Like you sometimes you need a fucking hammer.

37:39 And, you know, all of these things like coexisting together like could, could they, you know, make sense for API like I think I think it could. Point. That's the point. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So then we have infrared thermometers and thermal imaging cameras, and these detect heat or sometimes the opposite cold, allowing ghost centers to see temperature variations that could indicate the presence of a spirit. Cold spots or unexplained heat signatures are considered potential evidence of paranormal activity. If you. So this one, I kind of get torn with this one because if you if you believe that a spirit can be hot or cold, then that means there's somehow physically in this plane.

38:34 Yeah, yeah. Because they manipulate it. Maybe that's what it is. They're manipulating it just like they would could move things I guess. Same concept maybe? Could it also just be an aspect of the phenomena that like, you know, you're like you, you are OK, let's say like it's an energy and like the energy just like like OK, like heat, like heat, you know, you have different energy and like it can create heat. Like it'll get warmer if things are like interacting with each other. So, so perhaps it can do the same thing like this phenomena causes this cold spot like this energy is like that's like a by product of the energy being there. So I'm with you like I think there could be a lot like could it once again, is it a, is it a fucking Flathead screwdriver in the toolbox?

39:31 Like potentially like, but is there is it necessary? Like isn't there like? What do these things do? It adds like what scientific credence or validity right I. Guess that's just it too. Like when you Add all of these things like, well, not one thing is the answer. It's like a combination of things in context of. Their views or whatever, right? Mm hmm. That's true then they have night vision cameras. Yes, that's for documenting paranormal activity in low light conditions. These cameras use infrared light. To illuminate things, allowing ghost hunters to capture evidence in complete darkness.

40:15 You know, we've all seen TV shows where it's complete. Silence of the Lambs is a great one. That one freaks me out so much, that scene. But then, so this is just me being Mr. Skepticism. Why do Why do they have to be at night? Well, we know the answer because it's dramatic. Dramatic for sure, but also if someone's going to like a public area, like let's say it's like a a mansion or something or you know, a government building, like nobody's going to be there after right after like work hours. So if you're going to try to do an investigation in some of these or there it's a museum like Molly Brown house.

41:00 So it's going. To be a night you. You can only do it at night because there's no like people are using it during the day. It's being, you know, there's too much interference with the public. Yeah, I I guess I get that, yeah. It but is it does it also add to the dramatics like on a television show like a television show could definitely buy out the space, right? Like if they really wanted to go to go to somewhere like they could do it during the. Day, but that's not as creepy. It's it's never as creepy or dramatic. No. Yeah, yeah. Motion detectors is another one. We all kind of know what those are the same kind of concept.

41:41 Then we have spirit boxes. We will this. Have you ever heard of the Estes method? OK, Yeah, actually I had never, I did not know what you were talking about when we had talked about this before. But please tell me, tell me again because I remember it but I don't think a lot of people know about the Estes method. OK, so a spirit box is a device that go rapidly scans radio, the radio frequency. So imagine if you had a an AM FM radio and you started at 88 and you're scrolling up through the stations really fast to the top one, and then you go back to the bottom. You just keep doing this repeatedly. OK, That's that's what an actual, that's ultimately what a spirit box is.

42:33 It's non-stop. It's like you you turn on. And it's just constantly, it just keeps. Doing that exactly and it so this basically creates this noise bed that spirits are believed that they can manipulate to form words or phrases these these sounds that are generated through scanning through these radio frequencies rapidly. Now ghost hunters use spirit boxes to facilitate real time communication with spirits interpreting any coherent sounds as messages from the beyond. Now here's a fun fact, the Estes method. It was developed by a guy named Carl Pfeiffer during an investigation at the famous Stanley Hotel. Which is where? Estes Park Co.

43:16 There you go. So we played with this a little bit. We did, yeah. And Alicia put on the headphones. So here's the s s method. So let me explain the s s method. So you have one person who has there's supposed to be noise cancelling headphones and they put them on. And so when you turn on the spirit box and start scanning through the sounds, all they the person with the headphones hears is the scanning of the radio frequency. They can't hear the other person in the room. And the other person in the room asks questions of the spirit. And what the responsibility of the person wearing the headphones is, is they're supposed to say out when they hear something, a word or phrase, they're supposed to just say it, right?

44:18 They can't hear the person asking the question. So if I'm listening and I'm going celebrity, they're hearing all this noise like, I don't know, green wall. Yeah, yeah. So. So the other person's asking the question and you're also, you're supposed to be like sensory depth. It's like sensory deprivation. So you have masks, so you can't look at the person who's, you know, asking a question. So you're not, you're not reading their lips or like interpreting what they're saying. All you're doing is listening to the radio for and honestly, like as we were scanning through it, I couldn't hear anything but the radio because it's so loud and it's, and I was, I had no noise cancelling headphones. So it was like just constantly going through and cycling through and you're asking questions the whole time. And you had tight blindfolds on so you could had no light. Yep.

45:10 Yes. And the whole time she's doing this, I'm asking questions like, are there any spirits? What is your name? How did you die? You know the questions like that And then letting Alicia you know. The idea is that then the spirit is communicating ultimately through hearing my questions and then manipulating the sound waves so that Alicia would say the word and or the words in response to the question. Yeah. It was a bust it. Was a bust. There were a couple. Of there was a couple of times when she would say things that kind of made sense to what I was asking. What you think about is kind of weird because you don't know what I'm asking. For it to fit is kind of odd.

45:57 But for the most part, it didn't really work. There are videos out there where you see people doing this, where it's supposedly real. That seems like crazy. You're like, whoa. And so this is, this is kind of what I will say about it. I, I think like, is there actually something to this? I think that there could potentially be something to this. But also I don't think I knew what I was doing or what I was listening for. So it was really hard because it's scanning through so quickly. It's really hard to pick out words. So I'd hear something like there was something that you had said and the thing laughed like I heard.

46:40 Oh yeah, because one time you went. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. And it was fucking creepy on the receiving end because I didn't know what he was saying. And all of a sudden I heard ha ha ha, like in there. And so I just repeated it and I'm like, Oh my God, this is so scary. Like, what is he asking? Is it, is it ha, I'm going to, are you going to kill us? Ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh God, yeah. But I think that, I think part of it is, you know, you have to get to know how to use the technology. So I, I will say maybe like I the cool thing about the s s method is you can get answers pretty quickly. Like you don't have to wait around. You don't have to use someone else. You know, it's you and your friend. You can like be asking questions and if you get to know how like what to listen for or in your headset, then it's easier to interpret what's being said.

47:31 It just sounds like static like cycling through. So it's a little overwhelming to be honest when you're. Doing yeah, yeah. It's not silence and then just one you. Know constant noise. It's constant noise. So it's like it's, it's, it's a lot to do. So like a lot of these like paranormal investigators, if they're doing this, they've been doing it for a while. So that's why they have such great results is like, maybe they know how to use it a little bit better or they're also doing it over hours and hours of time. I think we maybe did it for like 10-15 minutes. Yeah, it wasn't very. Long. Not very long, but if we had like two hours, maybe footage, we probably would have several answers that made sense.

48:11 But. Do you think you could listen to it for that long? I don't think I could. I don't. Think I could like it's complete like you said, sensory deprivation, yes, with nothing but crazy radio static. Yes, in your ear, I think. That would kind of drive you insane. It does. And like, it was kind of scary. I was telling Kevin, yeah, I was telling Kevin that like, because we, we recorded it and it kind of freaked me out while we were like going through like the stations at like there was a point in time I'm like, Oh my God, I don't know what's going on. Like I have no like I I'm a control freak and have to relinquish some control. Toe what? 100%, yeah. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, you, you still need to do it. I mean, you might just be better. I need to try it, Yeah.

48:57 I just because I want to experience it. You, yes, you have to. We have to do it. Yeah, we'll do that. And then yeah, we can maybe post it on our one of our socials. I do think that's like one of the more legitimate ones, at least from my perspective. Yeah, I was going to ask you like out of all of these. Yeah, like. I think the well and we, we kind of made fun of it like the dowsing. OK, so here's the thing. If you are honest about it, the problem is a lot of people are not. If you're honest about it and you know how to use a tool really well, you can do a lot of things with it. So perhaps like things like dowsing rods, like people actually can get some kind of communication through.

49:38 Like, I'm not going to say it's all bullshit, right? Like I think 99% of it is bullshit. Like, but is there still 1% for sure? Yeah, I totally believe that. But the dowsing rods are so easy to manipulate like I don't. So easy. Well in our spoof even like I did everything I could not to move my hands and like some of like you can't see my hands moving but I've controlling the answers. He yes, like we we were shooting it. We knew how we wanted it to. Yes, we knew how we wanted it to work. And so you would slightly shift. Just it takes nothing. Nothing, it takes nothing. You were way better at it than I was. I mine were just like moving around the whole time.

50:22 But I think that one's bullshit like, you know, then again, like I do like the Estes method. I think you're right with the E or the electrical. Though is it the EMPS? The EMF. EMF detector, I think. I just feel like, like the idea is really cool, but we just have so much technology in our world. Agreed. I mean, it's just it's so hard. Unless you were like, in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, like in a cabin. Dead zone? Yeah, nothing. And you didn't? Have your phone on you, right? You know, like that's the only way that I could like, buy it right in like a ghost. Like I can't buy it any other way. Agreed.

51:02 And even then, I would doubt it. So I think that like a lot of these things could be used, but like, they have to be incredibly specific. But there's a lot of charlatans out there. That's the thing too. So if you're like, if, if someone's coming to you and is like, hey, I'm having like, you know, I want to talk to my daughter and she died and like, you know, can you help me or like there's like some weird stuff happening in my house. Like what are you going to do? Like are you going to take $1000 from them? And and fix the plumbing issue or are you going to like and like do a like an overnight investigation, AKA fixing their plumbing and charge overcharging them? Like, it's so easy to do that kind of shit and to take advantage of people. Totally. And I think that's the rub on a lot of these things. I.

51:45 Know and it also it makes the good ones not but I mean go into the pool of bad. Right, right. Unfortunately, Well, every, yeah, everyone just doubts them the validity of them. Exactly so. Yeah, I mean, what about you? I'm with you. I'm with you. I think some of it is, some of it is legit. I think some of it can be legit. Yeah, a lot of it is shenanigans, people taking care advantage of people I don't know. Yeah, I, I I'll leave it at that. I I there's plausibility to all of it possible majority of the time I'd say. It's bullshit, Yes.

52:31 Yeah, totally agree. Unfortunately, I know we always like wish that these things were real. When we went, we went to Glenwood where like, we're going to find a ghost. We know we're going. To we'll see. And that's the other thing we always talk about. It's like as as and let me just say this, if you're going to try this stuff like it's always about intention, like make sure you don't have any effed up intentions because you're just asking for trouble. Absolutely. So just go in with a very peaceful intention behind it and you'll be OK.

53:14 But if you go in there going, Oh yeah, like I'm going to let Satan out of the hell hole and then, yeah, that kind of craziness. I mean, you're just asking for trouble. Yeah, it's like leaving your door open, open up wide. Like your house door. You leave your house door open up wide. Who's going to come in? Not like the per the good House guest who like exactly who like who you know. People aren't going to come in your house. No, no, it's always going to be the riff raff, so just be careful when you're opening up these doors. Good analogy, yeah. And Evps, by the way, top of my list about shenanigans, I just have to say that. That's why I'm like teasing him. He absolutely hates.

53:56 Him So now with with all of these tools put together, you can imagine, right? They all paint a picture. Right. And not it's not just one thing that's going to answer the question, but all of these like we said before can add validity or support another thing under the circumstances and attention that it was done. Yes, yeah. So all can be useful and that's it. I mean, so just I guess I would like to leave people with are saying, like we say in the top of every show is keep an open mind, keep a skeptical ear, yes, don't be gullible. People are gonna try to take advantage. We're gonna try to take advantage. Just just use your own common sense. Yes, yes, and be safe.

54:55 Yes, and be safe. Yeah, do do the Ouija stuff and just be safe. Please, yeah, be safe about it, yeah. Well, thanks for joining me today. Oh my God, thank you so much all. Right, we'll talk to you soon. Very soon. OK, see ya, see ya. Bye.