Communicating with the Sprits

0:35 Ahoy and a spirited. Hello. Welcome to our kooky town. The bizarre AF, I am your host Alicia and I am with here with here here with my host. My co-host at the most Kevin, how are you? Boo hoo hoo Honey. Hi girl, you're looking awfully spooky today, X. Okay. So, so who is this? Who is this guy that you are? He I don't know his name but he is Dead. Oh yes. He's very dead kind of demonic to its yeah, he's not real. Super happy like about us live or not. A pleasant person is wearing Rags. He has really long hair.

1:24 I don't know how he manages that. Yeah, it just it just never gray hair fell out and never fell out. Ever fell out. Lips are a little dry. Yes, slightly dry, huh? Look a little tired. It's like yeah. You have bags? Bags and really dark circles, dark slacks. Yeah, Chuckles. Uh-huh. And just kind of like haunting the world. I'm not wanting necessarily, but just exploring and trying to engage. Yeah, some people, but mostly just, you know, observing? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Checking out the world. Gotcha. Okay, just I'm just, I'm just a world traveler.

2:08 Well, I, what do you? You look great, too. What are you up to? What are you, what? What are you doing? You know what? I am Madam Alicia and I'm here to read your cards and the Ouija board. I thought that since we're talking about spirited communication today, I thought, hey, why not be a medium, you know, it's so Perfection. And let me just tell you that right now, I love it. I'm kind of digging this. And actually, all of this is from my normal wardrobe. Oh my God, isn't that funny? Like, I've worn this. Like, you have that in your closet. I have this in my closet and I've worn it out multiple times. Same thing with the jewelry and stuff. So I guess I'm not too far off and we have a special guest. What we do we do, we have our special guest over here. His name is a mr.

3:03 It alive, mr. Berry it alive. Hey Barry. How you doing? Barry, Barry. Can you speak up? Okay, sure. I think you put too much stuff in this cocktail. I mean, I know we had to chain him down because he was a little out of control was a little bit out of control. I did give him some absinthe and you know what? That can do to your brain. Great. So now he's just going to be a zombie. This whole show, I'll bury. I'm sorry. I'm going to kind of really sorry, not sorry, because you're kind of a dick earlier. I was well maybe we'll come back to him. Definitely. We'll see how you come so long. Later, I think you look great. Thanks, I love it and I'm super excited to do. Today's episode.

3:48 And before we start, yes, okay, just like any other episode? I ask that you guys keep an open mind, a skeptical ear, but keep on listening to the facts. As we take you on our newest Journey. Yes, which is spirit communication or spirited communication are talking with the spirits. That's what we're Talking about today, this is actually one a topic that we both decided would be really fun to talk about during this spooky season. So I so we're both going to take turns in discussing different types of of spirit communication that we've actually had past experiences with. So the types that we're discussing our the Ouija board tarot cards automatic writing and let's see mediums. Yeah.

4:41 The ways that mediums communicate, lots of ways to communicate with. Now when their energy is exactly. Totally. And there's more than what we're discussing. Yeah, sure. So yeah, ultimately, you know, this world that we live in, has more questions than it has answers. And though that's typical for many of the topics that we do discuss here. I think that this is a topic that we can confidently, say we have less explanations than usual. Exactly. And I'm gonna start off by By saying that. I am five fully believe in all of this. Yes, I don't think any of it is fixed unlike. So if you guys listen to our previous episode of Dia conspiracies, there was things in there that I'm like, be us totally.

5:31 Yeah, it's funny to me, actually that you're like, okay, I'm so on board, I mean, it's good it's a good thing because you were like this conspiracy theories ball bullshit but this Like, oh yeah. - so that wasn't, that wasn't percent into it and I'll say, you know, as well, I do believe that there is something more. I can't put my finger on it, but all I'm I'm gonna, you know, try to play a little bit more Devil's Advocate. So we have supposed that is our job, right? Yeah, that's in the bazaar. If that's what you have to do. So, you know, ultimately, we we've all heard of, you know, these different forms of ghostly climate communication. I have one here which is the we Aboard. I actually have the Ouija board here. Let's see what's try this?

6:16 We can kind of, we got, yeah, you can see it here. So, it's a form of communication that I wanted to share with you. Now, the board in front of me, has a brand name, which is the Ouija board and what these were originally called were Spirit boards, or talking boards. And the boards were originally thought of as your run-of-the-mill board game, you know, like Chutes and Ladders or The Game of Life gaming would Go with your family after church on Sunday and play, which is kind of hard to believe, right. Let's go talk to Spirit, so it don't interrupt, but you know, is we G is a weijia or however you say that is that a brand? Is that what does that word, your? And it's a brand named.

6:56 So it's a brand of and, and, you know, you can look and people have a gazillion different ways or reasons that it's called. Weijia a Spirit came in and told the person, this is what it should be or it stands every single letter. Stands for a different. You know, it's an acronym for something. Ultimately, it's just, it's a brand name. So we have other, we do have other Spirit or talking boards. We Cho was really the one that kind of took off and I'll talk a little bit more about the okay. So okay. So like I said, it was basically a board game and it was just a fun Pastime, people didn't really take it seriously. It's kind of like, you know, the cootie catchers were you'd ask like, you know, pick a color, you know, whatever that kind of Stuff.

7:42 It didn't catch on my God. I haven't heard that word. And everybody know what that is. That's when you do that choose a color. Then you spell the color out Souza choose a number. It did. Yeah, exactly. When you open it up and then yeah we got Magic 8-Ball that's like that's kind of like the idea of the Ouija board like people just did it for fun so it didn't have those spooky connotations that I had straight was just a fun thing. So there have been some I'm of talking boards since 1100 ad and China. So like it was called actually Fuji which meant planchette writing, it's the same idea so it was used to speak with the dead necromancy really? So I'm talking with the dead using planchette and it had incredibly specific rules.

8:36 You had to be rituals regulations, you had to be trained in it. Not everyone could do. Do it and it was really actually outlawed in China under the Qing Qing Dynasty. So ultimately it has a history, the Ouija board, or some form of the Ouija board. So let's just get back to the talking board that we know of today. This guy they were really very popular began to gain momentum with the spiritualist movement and practitioners in the 1890s were using these talking boards as a means of Haitian. Have you heard of spiritualism? Kevin? Spiritualism yeah. It was like a movement. Have you heard of it spiritualism? I don't know.

9:20 Maybe. I feel like I have heard the word but maybe I don't know exactly where it originated or what its main true meaning is maybe. Yeah, it was totally a. It I'm gonna be honest I think that we're going to discuss it and deep dive into spiritualism on a on a future podcast K of the bizarre EF really, it's strange and I could talk about It we could talk about it for hours, but that's not this episode so quickly. I feel like when people say, what do you believe in? Yes, I go. I normally would say Spiritualism, as opposed to God, or what are true. I'm spiritual. Yeah.

10:01 Is that kind of what that comes from kind of? I think that, if you ask someone who was into spiritualism back in the 1890s, I think that you would have these folks would say yes, I am a spiritual person, they're not they're not prescribing necessarily to specific brand of Christianity or Catholicism or you know you name Protestant whatever the whatever the topic is. It's more of a, there's more here, right? Huh? And they had like specific things that they it was I'll tell you, okay. So ultimately the movement was very popular on the time that these board games came out and it was really a religious or belief system that put a lot of importance in the direct communication with Spirits, like, in spirits of the dead. So it was like, okay, we can talk to the, let's talk to the dead and ask them questions, so that I must have rapidly become very like Satanism, which, which critten bad, you would think so, right, because that's how we know it not necessarily. Okay.

11:07 Yeah. So it was like, it was almost like, you know, how we had pseudo-sciences and stuff. Like, okay, we have pendulums, we have these ways or means of communicating with the dead people always kind of believed in them. Anyway, the thought really was that the dead could help those living and that the living could also help the dead of Olives. But in order To do that, they needed. A means to talk. So how are we going to communicate with each other? Right q, and these talking boards, huh? Our spirit boards, the movement, you know, takes a shining to these boards, the Ouija board and and like all American Dreams, you know, a business person sees a gap in the market and it really means dollar sign. So he sees their people.

11:49 It's really, really popular movement. People are really into talking with the dead. Yeah, I can make a couple bucks off of it so I'm going to do it. That's where this Ouija board came from. So, okay between the religious movement and the distribution of the board's again to ton of popularity even featuring in a Norman Rockwell realist, raishin. And then in May of 1920, there is an edition of the Saturday evening post, and it has a man and a woman playing a Ouija board and we'll have the pictures and actually an article that I had read on the Saturday evening post, which actually is still around and it's a website now. But you know, Norman Rockwell Americana. Yeah 1920 had a picture of indigo Ouija board, which aboard people playing the Ouija board. Wow.

12:34 So which is pretty crazy. One of my favorite actually bad move 1980s. Movies was movie series called the witchboard? Have you heard of that one? I haven't know it. I have 80s. You're an 80s expert. Yes. So I can't believe I haven't heard that. Well, I do. And then show notes I have A link to the trailer and I know awful and good. Yeah. So you can, we can watch the trailer. Okay. Check it out. Have you? So you know, we're talking a little bit about the history of the Ouija board. Have you ever had an experience? So I have Here's the problem. So yes, I've used a Ouija board.

13:17 Yes. I never knew or know if it's legit. Like, I know that, I don't move it right, but I never know if someone else is like, literally, like effing with me, right? You know what I mean? Because you're typically touching the board with other people, right? Yes, exactly. We're all kind of lightly touching the planchette and chat. Thank U. Planchette planchette. Okay? Yes. And so everyone will slightly Touch this board, the planchette for those that don't know, which I'm demonstrating on the video and by the nature of everyone's energy, right? Touching this.

14:05 Planchette it will your spirit the spirits that you're speaking with can communicate? Yes. And so, as I mentioned, I never know. If somebody I've never been convinced that somebody else that I've been doing that with isn't literally Pushing the board pushing it, huh? So so to answer your question. Yes I've used it. I don't know for certain if I've actually communicated with a spirit that way. Okay. Do you want to use it? Now, I'm kidding. We're just sitting here. The rest of us would be like so bored. They be so bored. I mean, I'm going to get into a little bit more of the psychology behind potentially the psychology behind it. Aboard.

14:50 But yeah, I've had multiple experiences as well and I don't really know what to think of it. I've had some things that have come up, that I can't explain, okay, which I'll briefly touch on little bit later, but this board in front of me. It's actually, you know, It's was bought at a big box store. Uh-huh. It's really a piece of cardboard with a sticker on it and there isn't that just it that this has nothing to do with anything. It's just it's emits a tool, the tool or a means for communication. Yes, the idea, right? Right. I mean ultimately this planchette, you know, has that little the little window in front of it.

15:32 So you can kind of see the letters that are that it's pointing to. So there's no question about You know what the letter is that you're doing and, you know, like you were saying, the idea is that you can concentrate communicate with those from the great beyond. And if you were like me at a sleepover party, you would ask about, oh, what is my grade gonna be at the end? Yeah, right. Because Bobby, like me, which am I ever going to meet in sync? My true love's. That's so, if we go Gregg, have a bigger penis. Does Greg have a big penis does Greg like me? Well, Greg never mind. If we go by the idea of the spiritualist movement, we would be speaking with the dead by maybe helping them or God forbid, them, helping us to understand what happened life and like what happens afterwards. This is something I really don't have any issues with, but it's the scary stories and the tales of boards coming back after they've been fucking burned or whatever that scares the shit out of me, you know?

16:36 Oh, okay. Yeah, because that's a whole nother really different one. Yeah, yeah, that's something else. So, and that's, and that's, that's the thing. It's like, you know, if you just look at it as a piece of cardboard with sticker, it's not a big deal, whatever. Like it's a, could be a fun game. But it when you hear these scary stories, that's the thing that scares the shit out of me, there's, there's actually a scary and Infamous Spirit named Zozo that people talk about and we're talking about on the internet forums for years stairs, like saying, hey, this is You've all have you guys had any issues, it's caused harm to people. People have died. It's had all of these, you know, it's basically like an omen and maybe potentially a demon that's going to be following you.

17:18 But can I sell now and I'm, it's do I have some yeah. Mmm, so I think with any thing like this that it's your intention is everything. Absolutely. And unfortunately, you know people associate with Easy boards with devils and evil people. Because I guess that's the exciting thing and that people that do it. That's their intention, right. Whereas if you I want to engage with something like this. And I've read this repeatedly, you know, there's a little preparation involved. Yes, and setting.

18:01 Your anticipate, your perk your, what's the word? I just said the word before engine tension. Thank you. If you're setting your intention and your energy in a certain way, then The chances of that crazy shit happening are nearly nil. Yeah, right, yes. I think. I also think like when you're using anything you can't know what other people's intentions are right. Like unless you're super clear cut, you have specific roles. Like if I even though I'm like, I don't know what's up with the Ouija board. Do I believe in it? I'm still trying to figure that out but I have specific rules if anyone touches a Ouija board with me, like and it's like, hey, one person Control. That's that's what they say is like if you're using it, one person's asking questions.

18:51 You have to end the session and start the session in a specific way. Also don't be a dick, you know, right. Because especially, if there is something that you're communicating with killer, you don't want something to be aggressive, killer God fucking with the unknown, right? Exacerbate, sponsibility. Yeah, I have some kind of responsibility. So this Zozo character, that is Has been Infamous. I've not which I've never heard of never heard of. No. I haven't have had an experience with it. What. Uh-huh. Okay. I've so many questions. Including why? But we you know we I didn't even. So it's funny because yeah like I was touching the ball with other people and I don't move it.

19:36 I barely put my fingers on it and it did Zozo as the name. I don't know what to say. I didn't really even know of the of this Infamous Spirit until I had actually listened to Cast people like have you heard of Zozo? I'm like, actually, yes I have. And the only two times I did come up where, with two people who had kind of dark and I didn't really know but they had with the best intentions were not of the purest or had issues right? Like like maybe not the purest of intentions or maybe we're easy to, I don't know maybe comes very late. Yeah, I might be late, huh? So and I didn't know that which is why. Now, if I ever use something like that I know No, the people are doing well.

20:17 Yeah. So this bad luck Zozo character was such a phenomenon that actually Hollywood Hollywood made a movie called I am Zozo. Wow, yeah, yeah. So it was like a huge thing and ultimately, you know, it's about the a demon and, you know, you can check it out online. It doesn't have great reviews. I haven't seen it, but it was so popular and so well-known that they actually made a fucking movie in 2012 about it. Heard No. So ultimately you know, really the question is like how the heck does the planchette move and spell out things that end up making sense? And how is it that, you know, ever all these people have had a similar experience and with an entity of the same name and this was, this was, you know, pre pre internet and then people started posting on forums, like what is this? What is this?

21:08 How is everyone having this like collective experience with the same entity that ends up doing bad things, or people get sick or whatever? Ever the case may be. Yeah, do you have any ideas Kevin? Like I'm like how is it that everyone is? Is experience experiencing the same shit. So I'm the, this is where I get my skepticism is like, you know, when you start posting it, people are aware of it and then it just kind of propagates like, oh, did you hear Zoe's? Oh, oh yeah, we're gonna the stamms oh no, you know, I mean like I get very skeptical about again with the with this thing. I'm very I'm not convinced I think that this is a true tool. Yes, I think that it can be used to truly communicate with energy. I have zero.

21:56 Question about that. I am skeptical. Of. The people doing it real? Yes. Yeah. I never know when in fact you are communicating with Zozo or when in fact, you are was someone who was just trying to F with you, right? You know I'm saying, yeah, it's like, what are the intentions? What are people actually? What are they trying to get out of bed? I want, I want to do this by wanted to be real, but I really want to do this and I want it to happen. Yeah. And I want it to be like Real yes, like like totally real and you know, so but also like here's the thing. Another thing I was thinking about is like, potentially we could eat, you know, if you're touching the Ouija board on Halloween, you could, you just want to kind of get scared and get freaked out or there's that too? Sure.

22:54 I mean that's just his the season right. Right. Like like sometimes I don't want to open some door to some not good shit either. Oh, I completely agree with that and So I go back and forth Just Like You Do, ultimately the quick fun answer to, you know, how is everyone having this experience? How is it, how is it actually moving? What's going on the quick fun answer, is that ghosts are, you know, moving it and it's a spirit world and we don't communicate with them. Great, which is great but the complicated one is the ideomotor effect. Have you heard of that? No, so essentially it's a phenomenon where the sensory stimulus can unconsciously Justly initiate physical action. So even if you feel like you don't have conscious control over the planchette, really The Not. So Glam and spooky ideas that we have these involuntary movements and making people do it.

23:52 That's not really a ghost, it's not really a ghost and we're actually moving. It's like when you have the planchette moving in your hand and rotating around the board you think that you have no control but you're doing it but you're still moving it via and you don't know what the plan chat is. Going to be pointing to but you have an experience on how it is going to move and can unintentionally are seemingly unconsciously spell out words. Yeah. To cause it to say something like it that I I think that is very very valid. Yeah and I think even I think that like we try to make sense of things right like that we cannot. And so if we're trying to make sense of this and we're moving this around, oh, well, a okay. It says, be, you know, even if you're a fucked up or whatever your Trying to make it move around. You're going to kind of move it slightly to a letter that might make more sense.

24:43 Yes. Right and say, buddy instead of Buzz little that, yeah, whatever. Sure, yeah. I guess that makes no sense. Yes. So, yeah, you'd be spelling out words to cause it to say whatever it is that you think that it might be. And that's kind of an interesting phenomenon, because you're typically touching the board with another person. Ultimately. I think that the Ouija board. It's a freaky looking thing and and though, The science. If you choose to take that route says that you're just moving your hands around. I don't see harm and getting a little spooky or scary. But that's just it too. Yeah. Yeah. What is yeah, exactly. I don't see. I mean honestly and that either there's no harm and like unless you're legitimately like unbeknown SLI opening some portal.

25:25 Sure. Sure. But like if you're just wanting to get a little spooked with your friend, at a sleepover or like at a party or have fun. Yeah, have fun. And, you know, I think that it can cause you to potentially learn a lot about yourself or learn a lot about and create a fun story with friends totally. So I don't know. I just like, you're saying, aye. It's rough because I want to believe, I really want to believe, but I'm just not, I'm not convinced that it's as spooky as witchboard, the movie in the 1980s. Had me had me. Believe are the crafts. You ever see the crowd? I love to cry. So good. If you've not seen it, it is so worth checking. Going out.

26:09 So that, you know, I thought that that's a pretty brief overview on the Ouija board. It's good. We can most certainly like have an entire episode of any of these podcasts, any of these subjects, all these any of these subjects for a specific podcast. But but yeah, I just thought a brief overview would be good. So, what is great. Yeah, thanks. What are you going to talk to us about next? Well, the thing that I have was so I have kind of working Experience is the wrong word. I've interacted with mediums and I've interacted with Spirit writing. Oh, okay.

26:50 Also known as automatic writing. Yes. And automatic writing is also called the Cog Rafi. Yeah that is really fun. I like that and I think let me get my notes. Yeah. So psycho graffiti is a physical ability for allowing a person to produce written words without consciously writing. And so the idea is that you holding a pin and on a piece of paper and you're not consciously writing any words, but similar to the Ouija board. You are allowing something else to communicate with. Yeah.

27:41 This is a pen and paper, like just a pen and paper, Okay? So scientists and Skeptics consider automatic writing to be the result of the ideomotor effect, which is exactly what you were talking about with this. The Ouija board. Yeah. Would you Bart where were unconsciously unconsciously exactly making sub. Just makes motions unconsciously. That's right. So although purported communication with the dead is ancient modern, spiritualism proposal, we began they're saying in like 1848 of from what I was reading in New York when so the reportedly to screw two schoolgirls, hmm, one named Maggie and one named Katie, they Katie, they pretended to communicate with a ghost who identified himself as a murdered Peddler murdered Peddler. So for decades Ed's later, the sisters then confessed that they were completely tricking people.

28:45 And they were demonstrating how they were doing this whole Spirit writing and how they were creating these like wrapping effects, which is, which we'll talk about in a second, which is how the spirits would indicate that they were done writing, which is slightly different. So there's there's different forms of spirit writing which I get no, we'll talk about in just a second Harry. Houdini was Infamous for exposing the flesh charlatan Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He loved doing that. Okay, so there's two kinds of writing techniques. One is called automatic writing and that is where writings produced without control of the conscious mind that some sometimes called trance writing and in that kind of writing an entity, or Spirit guides your hand to produce the communication. So, it literally is guiding your hand to write out the word. It's like ghost.

29:42 Like, with Patrick Swayze, you know, That's exactly moving. That's I mean I'm down here Patrick Swayze Patrick. Come on definitely sit behind me and God I had died. My hand. So the other type of spirit writing is known as slate writing. Okay? Okay. In this form the entity itself wields or rights with the tools. So in the day that was chalk on a piece of slate. Oh, okay. Hence late writing and slate writing, and What they would do is they would take that piece of slate, they would take a piece of chalk, put it on a slate, they would hold it under the table and press it up against the table. And the spirit would write with the chalk and you could hear it right?

30:33 And then it would wrap and you would know that it was done writing and you would take the Slate out and it would have the words, okay, couple questions here. So, you're saying that they would put the actual, they put the actual like piece of chalk up against the table. So, we have the table here. Yes. And then here's the chalk. Yes. And then the slate, and then we have the slate slate underneath. So, so okay. Here we? Yes, exactly. Okay, yeah. So you have it like this? Yeah, so okay. And then between here it's moving it like that. Yes. So One's hands underneath the sleigh either and and ideas that you have both the psychic or the the medium. Yes.

31:21 And the person who is receiving this message? Both holding that piece of slate. Okay. Okay. Letting the the spirits right where's Harry? Where's Harry Houdini? I mean, okay, so here's the thing. I always question anytime you can potentially be making money off of anything. Of course, I'm because I'm assuming these people are not doing out of the kindness of their hearts. Hey, I have this gift. Yes, that I've been given. Yeah, I am trying to help people. Yes, you know, people have bills to pay, maybe that's how it starts, then they end up saying, oh, yeah. Oh, you just, you're, you're deeply bereaved.

32:04 And you know, you're going through all of these emotions advantage taken them. By the way, you need to call me back every week. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know you have a subscription and Kate every week. Yeah. Because you can't get this communication, you need it through me and so because of that, yeah you're I have to charge you and then all of a sudden people are in the poor house. Like so that's that's I don't know. That's something that I got to stress. The other thing that makes this so hard is when people are legit. Yeah. And making money off of it. What's the guy's name? Who is very real psychic on TV? John I'm guy, young, Tyler legit.

32:47 Yeah, bitch legit Tyler something? Okay, no that bitch legit and he's making money, sure. Yeah. Make him I'm sure he's making good money. Yes, some people people. People question that. Yeah, and they go. Okay, you're just a little moneymaker. Well, I think that's what sucks that. Is it sucks? I think that, you know, we all have to make some dough. We both have day jobs live and my talent happens to be. I can talk with Spirits. Yeah. So I might as well make a couple bucks, but then you got the people, like you said, that are like, okay. Let's hold this piece of chalk against this Lane, right? There's a magnet in the chalk and a magnet on the table that were actually moving that you don't know about. And it says I love you.

33:31 Don't stop what you're doing, whatever the county or state. Dog, sell your stock and give it to Madame Leota. Like I think I think that it's good to have a skeptical mind because when you're in a different headspace like when you're grieving, we both understood what grieving is like, you know, you're so vulnerable honourable and it's taking advantage of that. Yes, yes. And I feel like back in the late 1800s, It's early 1900s. I feel like that was done a lot. Yeah. Spiritualist movement was part of the yeah.

34:13 Okay. Yeah, we go. Okay, so let's flash back for a moment. Okay, so the 1800's And so, oh gosh, I just lost dramatic effect because I lost my son. Well, and now I'm going to have to have some music. Hold on. Let's hold on. Let's do this. We're gonna go bloop. I'm going to go bloop and then we're going to go, hold on, boo fun. Yeah, absolutely. Have a little music, some spooky like that. I think that I think like when it comes to the I think this automatic writing stuff is so interesting and when it comes to this topic it's there's so much.

34:59 There's a lot of Charlotte has a charlatan is MM but also like maybe you could let me let me say this that my mom Nye. Okay, did this. When I was young, You guys used to actually hear, right? Wow. How old were you, shoot. I was Single digits single digits, so you were like eight. Yes, and I read, I actually remember holding the pen with the paper and my hands were making big, big, big strokes, and then set. And I actually talked to my dad about this and he remembers it and he remembers that more than I do actually.

35:43 Okay where would actually would spell out words and you would ask questions and like words would come out. I wonder if your mom or your dad have like any of the Things that you did. I don't think they do. That would have been cool and creepy. It would be cool when you are doing it. I have a couple questions. Yeah, about this. So when you are doing it like your you and your mom would do it together. Yes. I have said, yeah. We'd have separate pads and pens. And Chad think she was the one that kind of introduced me into it. Yes. But it was a whole separate. We would separate do it separately. Okay, so you guys were doing it separately. And would you be asking the same questions would it?

36:23 Or would you just be like, in a like kind of meditative trance State and you're just good question. I feel like it was an outloud question. Again, I have a hard time remembering this activity, I do remember, one time, I do specifically remember my hand moving and big kind of Loops does about, all I remember from this activity, but I think that we were, in fact, speaking questions out loud like You whatever I don't remember what the questions were. I can't even remember what we would ask for why we would ask but I heard by remember I do kind of remember asking them out loud in my hand moving and then sometimes it would kind of gets small and and then move and then you look. And sure enough there was some writing like some writing you could like and you could read it. Did it look like your own writing or did it look? No, it didn't look like your own writing know, because it was like interesting big kind of large and loopy and different. Did you wasn't like we got going right like like making concisely, right?

37:32 So it was like, never ending endless like like never sinless, like touching the pad. The pain with the pain was NeverEnding end. Yes. Are like line never never ending line. Okay, so when you were doing it, did you feel like you were in a trance? Did you feel like you were being guided? Did you, do you remember any of that? I, that might be. Don't, how was just it? I don't I didn't remember feeling different, okay. And I seriously do not remember intentionally writing anything. Like I remember going, I'm in it, right, you know? I mean, like I doubt, I've would you ask The questions. It was your mom that you would ask questions. Like, what kind of dog am I going to get next or whatever? Yeah, I'm Sam's really trying to remember. I don't even think it.

38:17 Would ya like something base at something basic, huh? And it would like, because you don't want it to write out of fucking sentence, right? It was like a word, like, one word answers. When word questions, right, questions? That would give you one word, or that kind of thing, you know, and it makes me mad because I probably should have talked to my dad, my mom before I I do remember talking to my dad, just really real actually relatively recently, and him saying. Do they believe in that dear parents believed in them? Yes, they totally believed. Yes. We should have had your mom on the podcast. Well, I asked her and she's like, no, it's too much. He's no, it's not that.

38:59 It's just that. She's very. What's the word I'm looking for? Not private, but she's just, as I she doesn't like, yeah. She doesn't like, we could have, had her just hiding. Behind are very, very alive. Yeah, bury him Alive. By the way. Barry. How you doing? Boo. Barry. Hey hey. Okay, you gave him. He's way too much drugs. He's not even like blinking what the fuck. Okay, all right, we'll come back there. It's okay. It's okay Barry. Just chill out. You're in a safe place. A place where just let it wrong, man. Let her for all.

39:43 Okay, so flashing to the 1800s. So imagine this. Hmm. Imagine let your imagination run wild. You don't close your eyes and listen. All right, a medium and I lost it again. Oh my God, I'm so retarded. We just talking about this earlier, dude. Don't want you to like what is it? What is it? Okay. Okay here we go. A medium and the guest takes their seats on opposite ends of a small table, okay?

40:26 And they're each grasping a corner of an ordinary School slate. What's this? They hold form firmly pressing against the underside of the table. A small fragment of slate pencil is first enclosed between the slate and the table. For the use of the spirit rider sounds spooky. Do you know? I have something for us, anything else? I forgot.

41:06 I love this. Oh, Should the Seance be successful? Is scratching sound as if someone was writing on slate is heard at the end of a few moments. Three loud raps, indicate the conclusion of the message. And on the withdrawal of the Slate. Is found to be a partially covered with writing. Either in a general message, allegedly from the spirit world or an answer to some sort of question, previously written down by the guests.

42:10 Now, how do you prove this is real? Not definitively for sure. How do you prove its real? Well, we can't really so scientists have tried. Okay. Okay. And there was some researchers that were led by a neuroscientist Julio Perez the University of Pennsylvania. Hmm. They were gathered by a bunch of Brazilian psychology refers and these are the people. These are legitimate psychotic people that could spear, right? Oh they can literally called yes. Julie, they could do this for real or writing mediums, the column writing writing mediums. Okay.

42:56 And so these psychotic, they got all these people together. And they put themselves into a respective trance, which is how that, you know, that you that whole process which you actually, if you seen what was his name. The guy that young guy like Tyler, it's watch Tyler. He gets himself situated. Yeah, rights and he okay. And he gives himself Tyler Henry, Tyler Henry, yes, gives himself a moment and then he connects and listening and right there. So there's a little bit of a process. So, these pair writers do the same thing. And they put themselves into this trance, which they claim allows the spirits to dictate words that they then relay into a piece of paper.

43:43 Now, some psychotic refers claim to actually hear the words, hmm, in which they are writing a While. Others say they're not consciously, heard them at all. And which I said before, that's the two types, the one that were there actually guiding your hand or they're not and they so they let the spirits kind of guide their And or they hear the words, and they write them down. So this group of mediums was comprised of five photographers and five lest experience cartographers very experienced, ones psychotic refers, excuse me, were very experienced not experience. The experience level was determined by the number of years. Each medium had been transcribing Spirit messages as well as his or her average number of trances each month. So that that's kind of how they gauge their experience house, which makes sense, which makes sense. Yes.

44:37 So, for example, the most experienced strands are psychotic refer in the group had been transcribing for 40 years and averaged 16 trances per month, which was which equated out to about 76 hundred trances, while the least experienced meet him. On the other hand had been working for about five years. Eight, mediums are eight trances per month, which was about 480. So they kind of tried to do this whole range of experienced. Sychar Gophers, right? All right, so the researchers were then he's asked to go into a trance channel is spirit and begin. Transcribing, the messages that the spirits gave them when the mediums had been in a trance and writing for 10 minutes.

45:24 The researchers injected a radioactive dye into their bloodstreams, okay? And while it sounds like, yeah, a little barbaric has sounds like a great way to get cancer. Well, it was a hot day say as a harmless die. Okay. And it's the key ingredient in the what they call spect SP EC T which is the single Photon emission computerized tomography, okay, this is a brain scanning technique and so the dye stops circulating very quickly once in the bloodstream leaving a near-perfect snapshot of the volume and extent of blood flow at the moment of injection. So this is them trying to See where you're out. When they doing this trance, what is happening with the body blood?

46:12 And that, you know, excetera So this injection allowed the researchers to take pictures of the medians brains in a scanner 15 minutes later after the end of the trances to learn, what regions of the brain had been most effective during the height of their psychotic experience. Well, I shouldn't say, say psychographic experience. I guess I guess it depends on who you're talking to because something would say it's like okay, so each medium also had to Simply write without Going into a trance on a predetermined subject for a length of time. They had to create a what they call that in science. A control point. Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

46:55 Again the researchers injected died to perform the scan to see what's happening in the brains when they were forced to write something. So in other words, Alicia I want you to answer the question supercalifragilistic. And so your brain has to think. Okay, I'm going to write this thing down. Yes. Whereas, if you're in a trance and have something, Else is controlling you. You're not going to be processing the same way. When you write, you're not gonna be thinking about it. You're not going to be that kind. Yeah, your brains kind of turned off and and potentially if you have a spirit who's guiding you. Yes, there you're not the questions going to be us. That's right. You're not for processing and thinking about I'm going to write an a b, a c, a d and e. Yes. Okay.

47:35 So in the writings were randomized and they tried to do all of this stuff. That's the, that's the scientific. That's the scientific stuff. The stuff. Yeah, they're doing the stuff. The scans focused on regions of the brain involved in the conscious focus of planning and just with six Linguistics, kill the riding typically depends on those mental functions, right? So the, because your Linguistics, you have to be about what you're writing, yes, in the six, different specific areas, hippocampus. All these areas out. Turns that I do not understand the experience psychology.

48:16 Refers showed much higher levels of activity during normal writing, Than not, which makes sense because their brains are their brains are functioning when only writing exactly. So of normal writing, my brains processing, I'm going to write these words. Whereas, when not doing that, my brain shouldn't be as active. Because I'm not the one controlling it and in fact they proved that it wasn't so there might be something more to this automatic writing. Like, Jet. Yeah, I only like that.

49:00 So is the automatic Spirit writing really just you or your soul or subconscious expressing itself. Like maybe a form of therapy, you know, like you're really getting down into the root of yourself. That's see. That's the thing that I consistently question is. How much of this is actually, you? Like we already know the answers? Maybe, you know, for whatever reason, like, if we're asking the questions, what kind of dog am I going to get? I already know what? Kind of dog I want to get. So maybe I'm writing that hmm or perhaps there's like a greater Consciousness and the Consciousness is Is guiding the answers.

49:43 So maybe we're all like almost plugged into the same. I don't know if I can. What's a computer? Like it like a collective. Like a kind of scares the shit out of me dude. You can't say Borg not aboard Collective. Maybe like a not ant colony. Yeah, you know where you have. Yeah you guys have you have all the answers? You and your kind of tuning into that, you know, you hear people talk about a lot, higher self, or something. Yeah, or higher Consciousness. Did you move that chair? I just did shit that scared the crap out of me. You bitch, I'm always putting my foot like my leg on the chair. Right?

50:27 Oh my God she moved her foot and watch. Yes! So it was doing that and I'm like oh my God. That's barely move. Barry. Hey, Barry. You know what? He doesn't have his mic up, bro. Come on. He's not even now you just track the shit out of him, whatever he's not he's I thought he would be a little bit more limber, something he's nice little tool, okay, Barry it's cool, just chill out, they're in a safe place. So what about what about, what about, what else, mediums and Tarot cards and stuff?

51:10 What you want to talk about now, Ways of communicating with Spirits, I don't know. You want me to go over to tarot cards I could like I could do mediums, what do you think? Well, Okay, let's talk about what we were talking about Tyler's. Let's talk about medium. Yes, that sounds great. So full disclaimer. Again, I am 100% believer. Yes, and mediums and I'm okay. I'm a Believer in that. Some people are. I don't think that everyone who label themselves a medium or a psychic without question is, I was without question. Okay, same with we're writers. Same with tarot card, readers, same with anybody and you can claim to be it. do it or move a Ouija board, but first know that it exists.

51:57 I just let me just put it that way. That's what I believe, 100%, they're able to connect with energy that most people don't understand or can't. That's really ultimately. What it, what? I think it boils down to, but he I have an interesting question for you. Hmm. How can I turn? How can I braid my hair? You braid with three strands. Not too. So my mom actually asked me this question the other day. I thought it was very interesting. She said, Are mediums listening and communicating with Spirits or are they actually communicating with the?

52:42 Person. The energy from the person that they're connecting to, yeah. Like it's a great present and I think it is a great question, you know. I if you're asking me that question I think I think it's probably I don't know, just like I'll get into it a little bit later, but I kind of feel like this is a little bit more like it can be a form of therapy, right? Like a lot of people are seeking answers and in a therapists office, you're also seeking answers. And sometimes the answers come up and really random You know ways I do. I'm in therapy.

53:26 I don't know. Red Alert. I'm not perfect. I know what it is but I look perfect. I might look perfect darling. I'm not so so like, you know, you sometimes get like these breakthroughs are these like moments where, you know, word comes up or you have brain spotting. You're working with the brain and you can't really understand And you know, like my therapist will say hey, at least I like, you know, this, you know, you're really great at doing this and you get automatic answers maybe with another person. It takes a little bit more time, so it's not always the same. Yeah, thing. I think that in therapy you have an exchanging of energies and I could see that that's most certainly the case I think and, you know, maybe Spirit Communications, maybe it's working off of the energy of the person and, and maybe the mediums more like a vessel that.

54:20 Like yeah like a telephone communication form. Yeah that this person is able to kind of pick up the receiver and right use right? I don't know, I don't know either. So it's a great question. I think that the answer is probably both could be. Yeah, could be both? Who knows? Who knows? I wish I knew I want to be one. Do you want to be one? Yeah. I would love to be a medium. Love it. Oh, I don't know. Love Really, why? Because I think that would just it's fascinating to be able to connect with something that's not on this plane.

55:03 That's not in this like that's beyond us. You know? I'm saying that's beyond this. Yeah. And I think that's fascinating but but then you have to deal with people Kevin well. So here's the problem too. Is that I don't like people. Exactly. You're not a fan of people, a lot of fans and people would just so funny because I've only had great experiences with us. Well, I'd but I like some people like you. Okay, great great. It would make this podcast a lot more awkward. So you would like, hanging out with people and like, answers. That's the thing, like, can you shut it off and that's what I hear sometimes with Tyler's, that he can turn that off.

55:46 I think that you get messages, no matter what and you it's kind of like a nagging feeling that you can't really control. That would be the total down downside. Yeah. Yeah. You're like oh have to plant some? Yeah, shut the fuck up. No, the answer is no. And no means, no, dude, I don't think the spirits care about them. So let's talk about where we're running a bit long. Let's talk about tarot. Yeah, because Taro is another form of communication that I have also had experience with, because I've gone to tarot card readers before. My dad, is my dad has gone. Okay? Stay Me with. He have good people here in Colorado.

56:26 I've not know. I do not know who they are. It's been so long. I would love to go to a terrible enemy to like a legit. We should. This is all again, the whole legit thing. Yeah. How do you find all the gentler? That's, that's the hard thing. I mean yeah. II have experiences with tarot cards as well. And yeah, actually. Yeah, I have a pack here. Yeah, that I actually brought you had me before the show. Hmm. You had me. Pick three cards I did. So, towards the end of this podcast, I'm going to make sure that we are. We go over the three cards, and hey, I give you the reading. So before we do, I'm just gonna give you a little bit of a history because you know me I'm a fucking hard about what it is.

57:08 Okay. So I don't really have a thorough enough knowledge to make a living or even a penny off of tarot card readings but after maybe after the explanation of the history, I can try, I'm good. I've already have read your car because I'm not very good. So I had to like pre do it And see whether or not the spirits actually did work through me. So you're going to have to tell, tell us at the end of the hell, I will, I'm totally honest. So, I don't know if you've seen like, the tarot on the interwebs or even, but even like on YouTube or Tick Tock, you can do Taro pick a cards. Oh, have you heard of that? It doesn't feel right now. So answer is no but I feel like picking something digitally isn't real.

57:50 Maybe maybe there's a greater Consciousness or something that's moving your hand. And like, you needed to hear the message. So I, it's a thing. It's okay. Okay, thing online. Now, I'm curious because I have to look at it. Yeah, I so I actually have my favorite in the show notes. I have one of my favorite, dudes. It's, he's called a DT, okay? And he even discusses, like, the depraved Secret Lives of celebrities. And, and, and maybe like True Crimes, like trying to solve True Crimes through the hearts. It's fucking ridiculous. And hilarious, okay? You never heard of it. No, okay. Well, not that. So it's like a digital version of tarot cards. It is, yeah. Digital version. Well, I mean it's still tarot cards. It's just a it's a way to do it through like online.

58:31 My mind, you're not right, like sorry cuz I can't literally feel the card and pick it. Yeah, can't feel the cards wife. Yeah. Okay. Or maybe you're caught, you're called to a pile. I'll give you some okay. Yeah, you'll have to tell me, tell us how you think. So, ultimately be form, is clearly the Miss Cleo's 1-800 1-800 world, it was really just a deck of cards. Ed's tarot cards. As we know them, have a rich history and I could talk for days, but I'm not going to. So I don't want you to get too spooked. Ultimately it started in Italy somewhere around the middle of the 15th century you've played with, like a deck of cards, like the bicycle deck of cards. Sure, hmm. So that's actually just how these began. Okay.

59:16 Oh yes. Because actually, let me ask you are like I have been to a card reader who was simply used a card of deck of cards. Icicle like a bicycle that cards and she had just written like the Ace of Spades was whatever that would be. Yeah. So she had just written on that and these were all the should they use them for him fucking ever? This is a rare that could be. Yes. And that's that's actually how they started was a plain deck of playing cards. You know, you have four suits, you have a king, a queen, a knave, a night, / page, and the Ace of each suit works as the one. So each one of the cards Have a numerical value, okay, with tarot cards. So people still actually use and play these cards as a standard set of, you know playing cards in Europe. And there, they don't have any spooky connotations, it's like playing slap jack or whatever.

1:00:08 You know, you're, you're playing a normal game, you're not having any kind of ghostly communication. It's that's just how it works, but we both know that tarot cards that's not how tarot cards are seen in the United States. And we really wouldn't be talking about them in the book, The bizarre AF. Episode, you know in our world if that was the end of it. So buckle up. Okay. Have you heard of you know, have you've had your tarot cards read have just find it to be pretty accurate. Yes, you did. Yes. Okay, from what I recall. Yes, okay. Good to know. I've had my cards read to and I think that it was pretty accurate. I'm always I want to believe so hard. Yes.

1:00:52 But it's yeah. Also, I'm like Yeah, like make things fit. Oh you can. That's kind of how I feel. I may be a more closed off or I'm like, dude, I feel like I could have answered these questions myself. So. Wow. Yeah. That's that's it again. Don't lose your place in the in that where I'm going but that's another reason. Why is it just psychology? Is it just getting into the depth of what you are who you are? That's think that's a great question and I think that that's something that when we're looking at things, at means Similar to, you know, tarot cards, Ouija boards. Like potentially could be like a therapy session. And yeah, could be getting answers that.

1:01:32 You already kind of knew? Yeah, but you know, I do think that, you know, whether you go to a therapist, or you go to a medium, it's kind of the same, it could be potentially be the same thing, right? So actually the tarot cards, they, they tell a story of an Epic Journey. Were you aware of that? No, so it's that. Yeah, it's actually the major Arcana. So those are cards. Once once again, every single card has a numeric value which I'll show here. This one is the, this is one of the suits, so it's the page of Swords, but every one of these have a numeric value, let's see in the Knight of Pentacles and they don't, of course line don't necessarily anyways, they have. Yeah there you go.

1:02:21 There's one. There's So, yeah, they all have different numeric values, so the major arcanas card 0221. My deck does not have all of the numbers on them. I should probably write them on there, but that outlines the Fool's Journey. The fool is actually symbolized as 0 or the beginning. So, it's like each one of us as we begin life, where you're starting from nothing and we're becoming something, right? I kind of feel like the, the tarot's calling me a fucking loser or a fool and I'm not a huge fan of, I'm nobody's fool. Okay, if Tara, anyway the fool or us, we go on an epic. Epic journey that is life and these major are can actually give us a bigger picture of long or long-term Direction. So any cards that you're bringing up that are telling the story of the fool, it gives us like a more of a long-term Direction or path in our life that that you might experience not foolish Journey.

1:03:26 So I hinted at before, but I wanted to talk a little bit more about the how technology has changed the medium of tarot from Miss Cleo via 1-800 number, or emailing. A Tarot reader back in the 90s today, it's much easier to get a live or online reading and so many people that you can actually get it from heck, you can go onto YouTube. Like I was talking about C and CE celebrity gossip discussed via tarot readers. I actually, I was saying a diet. He's one of my favorite ones, it's going to be a, he's gonna be on the link, in our show notes talks about like, who killed Princess Diana, you know, stuff like that, it's really funny and he's hilarious. Okay. So is he doing? Is it a comedy? Or is it like real? Like is entertainment entertainment but also I think that he's like he's had some situations and things that have have actually turned out to be true, okay? And he has like his predictions that had come true on his YouTube page so it can go on there, you can see it. Okay.

1:04:20 But now that we have Idea of how the cards work. I thought I'd give I'd let you choose those three hard. Since I'm not very good at this, you chose beforehand. Yes. And I didn't want to like sit there and look online. Okay, what does this fucking car? Because I'm starving. So, I don't want to bore you with the details. So we did our exciting of the future. Yes. And it's three questions by the way. Can I just add that I found out that while we when you were doing? doing this, that the The this is one of the cards.

1:05:00 Yeah. That's the eight of swords that the direction in which you pull it. Right? The directions in which you pull. It is important, it's very important. So when you, when you pulled those initially, I said, did you pull it up right this way? Or Is It reversed? Because the the actual story of the card is completely different for each? Each of each of the the suits, they all symbolize different things. So if you have the reverse of its object or the upside down version of it, it's often the reverse okay inning of what it is. Okay, God. Mmm.

1:05:40 So okay and one of mine was upside down. It was upside down? Yeah, so we actually had a future. We did a future reading and it's a three card draw really. So the first car so it's three different questions like what will help you in your future? What will hinder you and what is your unrealized potential? Okay. Okay so the first one is what will help you. Yes. And you pulled the eight of swords? Yes. So what will help you? So it's ultimately what this card is telling you from my interpretation, right? As Madame Leona Madam Alicia, it's saying what's going to help you is Understanding what your thoughts are and your thoughts tend to be more limiting and you overthink and you need to kind of get out of your head.

1:06:32 In order to be on the path that you need to be on. You need to get out of your head, let go of thoughts that are holding you back and gain A New Perspective. So instead of thinking the same way that you typically think or you're like okay well this is exactly how it's going to happen. You have to be open and turn off those. Overthinking or limiting, limiting thoughts. So, on this, I'm just going to show it if you see the actual card itself. It's a, it looks like a woman who's tied up in their swords around her surrounding her. She's tied up, she has a blindfold on and it's almost like your. She seems as if she doesn't have a hope or she, did, she already knows that her fate is decided. She knows what she's going to be doing. If she just paid attention, there are ways for her too. To overcome her situation and to get past it, but she needs to change her perspective in order to do so. So what will help you as in changing your perspective? So you have to change your perspective, get a different thought, process behind it.

1:07:40 And that's the only way that you'll move forward with any any certainty or any success. Ultimately. Okay. You already have everything that you need. You just need to seek it out. Got it. And make Uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. Yes, right. I get that, okay. That last sentence was important. Make yourself uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. Because she's already. Does that you've already decided what's going to happen. You already know it's going to happen but that's not what is reality. Yeah, reality and your situation are two, totally different things. You need to turn off all those expectations, what you think, you know, and move forward. Okay, okay, so what's going NG to hinder you. We had the reverse Queen of Wands. You can see it.

1:08:30 Oh, there we go. So ultimately, what's hindering you? And it's this, it's really the same kind of message, which is why I was telling Kevin before, and I said, Woo. There's a real fucking clear message here for you. Yes. So you already know yourself on a deeper level, you know what you stand for? You're not easily swayed, you might be a little bit more introverted than you. Then then typical but you need to stop that. You need to stop that action and you because it's going to start, it's going to stop you and hinder you from From Success from personal growth. So, instead of instead of understanding once again, like knowing exactly who you are, what you stand for excetera, you you need to realize that maybe you don't have all the answers and know that, you know, by getting yourself specific Look out of your shell out of your Norm. That's how you're going to grow if you choose to not and to continue on the path that you're on, you're not going to have the growth that you're seeking.

1:09:35 Got it in the future. Uh-huh. Okay, so then we have your unrealized potential. So this is the ten of Pentacles and ultimately the ten, the ten of Pentacles Pentacles have to do with money. Just a heads up. So you're unrealized potential ultimately it's a very financially successful card. That's what the ten of Pentacles is like you have your a provider your bring Financial Security your stability and you can you you can actually help others through it. So your potential is your T, have the everything that you need, which is what these cars have been saying, you have everything that you need, you just need to get outside of your outside of your own. Own head and your unrealized potential as you can actually help others grow with their own Financial stability and and their own like, you know, happiness as far as not having to worry.

1:10:36 Yeah. So it really indicates that you don't that you feel compelled to share your success with others. So any success that you have is Success, that others should have. So that's your unrealized potential you work. Your hard worker, you've worked hard to get where you're at and you can really help you know all tides. High Tides, whatever. That is where all of us are on the same level and like the boats fucking come up something. Okay about that, I don't know. But it's like everyone, you know, if we have like rolling Seas, you have won both, that's way higher. And then one boat that looks like it's going to, you know, be drowning. You have the ability to bring to raise High Tides, something about don't know that saying? I don't know. Sure.

1:11:17 That whoever's listening is like, high tides. I think some sheep shit or like, like high tide like Raise All Ships, okay? Or whatever? Okay, make everything equal. So like okay, you have the ability to make everything like other people equal, and that's like a, that's a real gift. You have a financial like the ability to earn money and have success financial success. And your potential is you're able to bring other people on that same level. Okay? And which is cool. I don't know, got it so I'm not very good at I thought that was great what's interest and it you know so here's the thing I don't know. Everyone can real always relate to every I don't feel like that's actually I'm going to take that back.

1:11:57 I don't I don't feel like other people sitting here would relate could relate to that, so I don't, I don't think, I don't think people could fit could fit themselves into that. And that's why I feel like there's I mean, I I could relate to it. Was there anything that you're like, that's not relate to it? No, no, there was nothing. You couldn't really nothing. I couldn't relate to interesting. Yeah, it all seem valid. Okay. That way or potentially possible or Associated to me, oh my God. I was expecting to be like, at least yours. You're so way out of bed. Oh, God Alesha. I don't know what I'm doing. You know, I've touched these cards. Probably, man, I don't know 20 times, which actually, like that's kind of gets back to my point.

1:12:40 I kind of think that tarot cards overall, help us have a better understanding of ourselves and the world that we are in. I think that, you know, I believe that some people are more intuitive and may have something that we can't really explain scientifically, that makes them interpret cards. And let me just say this for For sake of not validity. But what's the yeah, I guess validity. Okay. and I'm not going to go into detail, but It's not like you're some Street person who just picked up a tarot card and did it. There's there's other things that people don't know that I guess add validity to to this.

1:13:31 So I don't want people to think that they could just pick, you know, right. Just go. Okay. So I guess they just completed some tarot cards and read a thing. I mean, I did there's more I think there's more. I think people need to understand that I think there is more to it. There's, there's Some spiritual connectivity that is occurring. Yes. Yeah, I, yes, there is before. Yeah. So when we were like doing the reading or beforehand, both of us had the deck out and we both were very intentional. Like what is it? That were wanting to get out. We're trying to have this so it takes two people, right?

1:14:13 But yeah, I'm not going to go into detail about my stories but I've had some stories. Yeah where it I can't I can't. Not fucking explain, it makes no sense. Do I think that that's individual to me? I think that everyone has the ability to maybe have a greater understanding of the world, or the universe, or the greater Consciousness, whatever the fuck you want to call it, and help to interpret some people use cards. Some people use a Ouija board. Some people use automatic writing. It's still the same. It's potentially coming from the same Source where it's which is a greater Consciousness. Rounders Gasps exactly. And so, it's just how can you kind of use that? And I just, I really see this as an extension of something like therapy.

1:14:58 Yeah, so I'm, I do think that I fit the look for a Tarot reader today connection, but I, this is a really fun episode, so good, such a good time today. And your again, I'm not going to get into details, but I do think you have a I think you're you have an energy? Thanks. Yeah I'm excited about it. Yeah, I'm excited to this is really fun. We're going to I think we can explore that more. Okay, so down we go forward. Yeah, as you continue to listen. Yeah, we continue to explore the world of the bizarre AF. That's right.

1:15:38 All right. Thank you for a fun fun show. Thank you. It's happy Halloween, everybody. Happy Halloween. And oh my God, this very exact. Hey, Barry. Out. Very, you've had way too much to drink. Don't trust me Barry. Alright, thanks again Alicia. Thank you, Kevin. All right, talk to you later. Bye.