The Blessed Knife - A Castrato Tale

0:01 Well, hello, bizarre story friends. If you're tuned in now, you are listening to the bizarre AF, a place where we talked about the strange, the unusual, the unknown, and all things bizarre as fuck, Alicia your host. For today's episode, as always we ask that you keep an open mind, keep a skeptical ear, but keep listening on to the facts. As we take you on her newest Journey, the Blessed knife a castrato tail. Do re me my co-host with the most. How you doing?

1:05 Kevin. Hey girlfriend. I'm good. How are you doing? I'm good right now. We are consuming up tropical actually beverage. I didn't realize. How tropical was. Oh yeah, here we go. If you're, if you're watching out of our black goblets from the Madonna in cheers. This is a rum Breeze. Mmm, it's really good. I didn't, I didn't expect it. I took a sip right? When we do the intro and I was like, oh my God, what is? This is great. I'm gonna be feeling. Line it up at the end of us. Has that coconut rum mmm-hmm. I love coconut. I just got back from Hawaii so it's like perfect transition.

1:46 Yeah you're back in the mountains and landlocked so we can still have like paradise here in our in our cup. Thank you had a good time. Yeah I think is great time. Good time. Good to be back home in Colorado, though. Total I'm me love. He's some kind of rad our home. I guess you have to write this. You're living here. Yeah. But Paradise isn't too fucking bad, right? Don't complain. No. Okay so I'm aware of your singing proclivities and how great you are. I have been serenaded by you on stage many a night. You have many a night. You have. I loved it because all about you. Oh yeah, keep on going.

2:32 Keep on going. It's always about me and him could do not but but tell me Me, how long have you been singing? What don't do the professionally, but I've always liked to sing. They tried to get me to sing in High School. Okay. Refused I wouldn't do it. Mmm, no, I wasn't as adventurous I guess back then, it's so fun. That's so funny to me is an exact opposite of who you are today. I know. Yeah, I'm a little more on it and extrovert and introvert. Yes. Yeah. So I've gotten. I'm better at that as time goes on but anyway and then I didn't really it was karaoke habla. And then once I got Snatched up to do Hedwig. Yeah.

3:22 Which that, by the way, I think my dish in for that I was just like someone saw me and then, like they saw you. Uh-huh. Miss. This is the San Francisco. They came to a party. This brand I were having and they saw a picture of me in Drag and Halloween. Oh yeah, and they said do you sing? And I said yeah I can carry a tune and they said, Said, would you be interested in doing a show? Like what? Show Hedwig and the Angry Inch like what? What me. So as I got sucked into that and then not suck in but pulled into that thankfully and then you know, would do it in cage. I don't see, I'm not like a musical fan and I know the gays are going to want to take my card away. It may be or deduct points.

4:17 They could you could get some points too. Dead right? I've got room it's okay. But yeah I'm not super huge fan. I do love Chicago but Chicago's yeah. So I don't like / to participate in them necessarily and I have done a couple which I've always enjoyed sure. Sure. I've always enjoyed doing them. Just nothing I seek out. So that's my singing history repertoire. Yeah if you will. Yeah I mean you when you were singing To me on stage. It was that I mean you sounded great so you didn't ever do any like training or anything like that? No, no. And I think if I had professional training obviously I would have. I would be better.

5:00 We still could I could. So. Yeah. You're right. Of course not laughs. Yeah. Yeah. Six feet under and he can't do it anymore. Yeah, that's it. Okay. So, okay thing I am terrified of singing. You are you have heard me saying, do karaoke? We do karaoke. You've heard me. Sing before, I don't think I have a bad voice. I just kind of feel like it's baring your soul. And what if people don't like my soul? It's always that element of judging, right? That's I think that's, that's the number one thing. Yeah, that that, that I would be judged but it's just, it's very scary for me. I'm trying to get past that good. Yeah, but what if I told you there was an entire Echelon of men who were rock stars, okay, and their day, their operatic singer. The Opera was like that was those were ours are singing that was.

5:52 Yeah. That was that was like the eye. Yeah. Everyone's like clamoring to be near them. Yeah. But these opera singers actually paid a really big price for their art form. Uh-huh. What's the biggest price that you would pay to be like a rock star? Kevin? The biggest prize? Yeah, I would pay. Would you your rock star? Well, I don't know, I guess you could give up your privacy. I'll leave those, right things known thing. The normal stuff. How far would I go? I don't think I would go very far, very far. No, you wouldn't, you wouldn't take off a limb for I would not, you wouldn't for go puberty.

6:34 I would not, that's what the castrati. Did you do? Yeah, so I'll just start from the beginning. Okay, castration, mmm. Kevin, I'm looking at you right now. You're definitely squirming over there next a castration. I'm really sorry. Can I can already see the? I can just knowing the culture of humanity. I can already tell why I can already kind of. Figure out why that's gonna happen. I'm gonna I'm gonna see if I'm right. Okay. So you know we're used to castration right now. I mean, not personally feel like I'm used to it, I'm used to castrate but like, you know, animals you have two dogs, you know, upstairs that have been, you know, been neutered will call, you know, they're called castration necessarily I have a cat who's been neutered and that's great because, you know, the reason we do it is we're preventing man. Animals from reproducing and having like earnings that the good old puberty ends up giving us. Right?

7:40 So, you know, castration as far as a form of enslavement goes back years, we're talking, you know, ancient Sumeria castrating Slaves by for punishment or means of control, right? Have you heard of Unix? Yes, but I don't think I fully know. Like I don't think I could fully Define it, but do they have Unix on? What's the dragon show? Any Game of Thrones of Thrones? Did they? I feel like now you're talking to the wrong person. So I watched any of those, our house of dragons or whatever. Okay, got it. I believe they do though. They do have a eunuch. Okay. So eunuch eunuchs, were typically used as Harem guards, like in the Middle East and the idea was like, these dudes are not going to bother Anyone as far as like sex, like they're not going to go up to the hair, I'm like the women in the Harem because they don't have the need for. It wasn't relevant to them because they've been castrated. Yeah.

8:41 Or they also were used and higher as higher political advisors the thought behind. That was okay. They don't have heirs that they're going to try to have succeed them. So it would really be a moot point for them, to even to even try to take a throne be Advisor is powerful enough. So they would castrate advisors to and this is historically, okay? Right? So they couldn't have children, that could take over, right, like, heirs to place on a throne like, you know, typically you have to have someone who would cut would be beneath, you know. Right. Got it to make sure that your power was, you know, strong and you stayed in power for a longer period of time.

9:24 But singers singers who are castrated, okay? These can be traced back. Back to Byzantine choirs, they're actually music pieces pointing out like a specific specific voice, which was like a castrated male. What is the Byzantine byzantines like a bit? The Byzantine Empire? It's just it's just a, it's an area, it's like an ancient area, 400 ad a civilization, okay? That that had, you know, it was a great civilization Had song books and things. That. But they also had castrated singers and and those were all of the male's castrated if they were a singer, not all of them.

10:09 Okay, not all men. Were castrated. Just specific ones. Okay, so that was around, 400 ad. But but the group that I wanted to talk about today, are the Italians, okay. Well, they're known for their Opera, right? They're known for Opera but they also make everything beautiful. Right? And tasty sir. I know oh God, I could Ugh, Pizza, Pasta Negroni smugly Auto. So you know, if anyone could make a eunuch a rock star, it's the Italians right? Okay. So around the, the mid-sixteenth century is kind of where we start to see the milsim, like the start of a male soprano, or a fall settest as a part of a specific music piece, and the pieces that I'm talking about, there's one called to die. Logs upon music, which is by the way, it's important to note. Women were not allowed to sing in and the papal region. So like, Catholic areas women were not allowed to sing in choirs.

11:14 Go go figure. So you couldn't have a female can have is high soprano? Yeah, so you had to have a male castrated so we could sing high notes or boys, right? So they would have the boys and requires that could hit those notes before they reached pure. Bertie. Yeah, so but the problem with having these boys was that every time you would have a boy, you know, he trained high enough and be able to hit those notes. What would happen in three years they would go to puberty. I'm going through all that training is just gone, so they'd have to train another group, but a castrated singer from Spain. Ended up coming to the In city and he could hit those high notes and he could sustain them because he had like the lungs of a grown, man, because he was a grown man who had been castrated.

12:09 There was no need to retrain every three years. If you had a cow, he wasn't with the sorry. Did I God? He's castration. Mmm. His castration was. Secondary. I mean, it wasn't that was just a happenstance that wasn't why he was singing or was. It was that connected? Or is that like that's a great question? Like what came first? Yeah, because I'm saying because and you might be getting into it here in a second but I'm just wondering if for some other reason he was castrated. It just happens. You know there's guys that can. Okay what's that acapella group?

12:52 Oh, I know exactly my type. Haha, and there's all the videos like, yeah, it was that that cute guy with a little bowl haircut who can reach the same. High notes. Is that girl can, sometimes I can't even tell them apart, right? And that's just my nature. Uh-huh. It was castrated why I'm assuming he was incarcerated. No. So I was just wondering if you knew if that was kind of a an intentional thing to get him there or yeah. Well, so ultimately, they practiced a little bit more castration in Spain and that was like the Moors. The Moors came in this way. This is not necessarily something that I had researched. I just know off the top of my head, oh my God, let me just pull this knowledge out.

13:34 So so the more is came to Spain and it was, it was really a form of punishment and slavery. So you would castrate for those Reasons, I'm sure what ended up happening is you had a castrated person who started singing, you're like really old or they were really good at singing. Before and then they have been castrated. Yeah well this guy came down to the Sistine Chapel and was like hey bros check. Yeah yeah and he could sustain these things, he had a great voice to begin with. I mean I'm assuming he had a great voice to begin with, but but you know, Roman Catholic folks were, you know, oh my God, you know, because they didn't have men that could hit these notes. You don't have that many men who can sustain the notes for as long and it's not going up into that like head voice.

14:19 Yeah right so like when you have which, you know, you probably know The better than I do. But you have different voices, you can like, you know, speak from like your diaphragm pressure and that's a stronger Place. Yep, throat clears throat. Do you suppose your head is like, if you have a heavy voice, it's just not in. It can be strong, but like, it's not as sustainable, but if you can hit those high notes and do them like from like a more grounded place than your, you know. Yeah. Better than this makes you good. Yeah, so having like a male Sopranos, not very common. In right? But you see the you know, this guy had been castrated. Oh cool. We can have great singers. We just have to have these boys castrated before he makes them not go through puberty yeah.

15:05 We already were already putting them through to this guy seated, the idea of them castrating these boys to keep them high. That's kind, that's kind of where they where they think it really started, right or that the research into because we had like these, like castrated singers or eunuch singers, Back and 400 ad. But like, the Resurgence in popularity had to do with the type of music. That was being sung, the operas that were incredibly popular and and the fact that women couldn't sing like all of these things coming together, right? Of course, it creates a great great atmosphere for you know a castrati or a castrated singer too, you know, rise up through. So it becomes incredibly popular in Vatican City and I'm sure that Castration, the castration, the castrated singers, right? I'm sure you're dying to know how these men or no. Really, boys are chosen to be a custard castrato and what the process looks like, right?

16:06 As you said, not all of the little boy. Singers were castrated. Not all of them are. I'm sure that you were selected by their voice. Yes, that's part of it. So we'll get into the into the, you know, how. And then but also well, the, how of you How they actually cast, right? Oh, great. I know you're gonna have to breathe, but I was you some breathing exercises over here, whatever? Okay. So, the start of the process for selecting the castrati, this would have to be done at a young age, right? You can't do it once. Somebody's already hit puberty or you can't do it. Like when someone's 18, it has to be around the onset of puberty or before.

16:53 Or well, they would castrate for other reasons after puberty, but for them, they were castrating before puberty to make sustain The Voice rise. Okay, to sustain that voice. So, there are a couple of options are folks, who were chosen for that one or what? Castration? Castration actual Act of doing yes. Oh God to become a cock castrati. One I just okay, I feel so stupid. What I just realized what castrati means instead of set it for me. What that is. So there's two, there's two terms, right? Castrati and castrato ones. Plural ones, you know, singular, sure. It's a castrated male, singer whole. Oh, I thought it was the person that was doing the castration. No, it's a singer who have been castrated than Yorick castrati. Uh-huh.

17:41 And if you're part of that group, your accursed Rado, part of my various treated group reverse, I am a castrato, I am with castrati has. Yeah. Got it. Yes, got it. Okay, so The way that they would select would be one, you are a talented voicing like you were saying okay they're showing Talent, you know we want to be able to use this voice because he's a killer you know he's one in a million that you don't find them very often to you're an orphan. Wait. You're saying if you're an orphan, your castrated, or you're saying, if you're an orphan singer, if you're an orphan, in you're willing to sing and be castrated, oh, you're an orphan and you want to sing we're going to castrate you in hopes that you're going to keep this. Yeah.

18:33 And then and the the poor orphan singer, right? Or not. Depending I mean I mean yes but typically you'd have to be have to be able to carry a note. They're not going to just have someone who's like yeah morning. Stretches. You can maybe saying. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey, little Oliver like that is a crossing. My mind. Pour off. Rouse Oliver's asking for some food. Well, let's castrate you and see if you can sing how bad do you really want that head? Yeah. Yeah, right. But I mean, kind of kind of it is like, you know, these kids are up against it, they don't have a future, they don't have prospects like, you know, they have to make a decision pretty quick. The third option is that, you know, you were poor, right? So you don't necessarily have to be an an orphan. You could just be really poor and honestly like between the talent, the poor the orphan.

19:20 It was often a mix of these. These things that these boys were so, yeah, very rarely. Do you have a ridge? A rich cat? There were some. There were some but not very often and if you do you happen to know of the rich kids that were castrato toes. Yeah. Why were they? Because they wanted to maintain Everyone likes like, you know how like those people are like, you know, intense. It's I'm just doing it for the art, you know? Like for sure. I'm really have. I can do anything I want I can do anything. I want like this is, this is like, this is my my purpose in life, Mom and Dad. Yeah, you know, like like kind of like that but there was one guy who was like that and his aunt or someone like gifted him to Vineyards, which he basically lived off the money for that and was able to just pursue his His dreams as a castrati, you know, just so stupid, right?

20:18 It's choosing to be, I'm choosing ah, yeah, I'm so avant-garde, like you just don't understand me. I need, you know, it's like shut the fuck up. You got your balls cut off, and you're rich. Okay. You like, like, you're really not. Oh my God. You just think of the people nowadays that do just stupid shit, because they're rich. Exactly. I like to kind of almost ruined boys Island Boys. You know that. Boys know, what island, boys. Oh my God, you've got a tick, tock these guys, and they're like, okay, I'm just leave it at that. Everyone in the audience Tick-Tock Island, Boys, okay, and then come back to me. Come back.

21:01 Okay, so a little bit, where was I? Oh yeah. So, you know, we have these boys, they're either skilled singers and their and, or they're poor or both and working working as a singer for the Catholic Church gives them. A means to actually earn money, whether it's the Catholic church or even the Opera, right? So these boys they're forced to make a decision relatively quick and one that's going to affect the rest of their life. Y'all like, yeah. It's like a huge huge. Yeah. You're gonna be exactly what I wanted. Exactly what I was like, thank you. And I was like, what am I going to have to? I have to do this topic. Kevin, you're giving me all the reactions I was looking for.

21:44 So at 13, I was not in my right mind to know what is it decision. Like that means. I don't know about you. Kevin would you have had any kind of idea of what that was even like, as a child 13 being a castrati? I mean, look, you're up against it making a decision like that. Okay, I'm going to either beep or the for the rest of my life or have my balls. Oh my God. Sound, when you put it like that. I'll be I'll be honest if if it was a choice. Yeah. Probably was my boss. Well, yeah.

22:26 Because you're like, I'm not eating. I'm not like, I don't have a, I don't have anything like a roof over my head. Yeah, I can potentially sing and they're willing to pay for me to go to I like school and stuff like that, and you want balls. You're my boss, got take them especially at that age because I'm not entirely sure. I would even know, I would care. Yes. You know what I mean? You don't have like those feelings. Yeah. Really not sending some kids do but most kids, I don't think do all the maybe now they do but whatever. Yeah, I just don't, I just don't. Yeah, I think I would have done it. I think are done at. Yeah, I think I think that it would. It's for us to sit here and just be like, oh yeah, there's no way like we I would never do that.

23:07 Like, I don't think. That you people understand being really up against it. Oh, like in abject poverty rightly, and that'll make you, you know, make you have just been on the edge. I've not been homeless, but I've been like, but fucking ass broke. Yeah, every day of my life for a good long while and it Sucks. It totally sucks. And so I get it like being home was like, you know, you won't see those movies where they portray. Those people that are just really bad. Obviously, every day, that sounds so mean if they're truly doubt. Yeah. You can't judge viable for decide and their children. Yeah.

23:48 You don't have anyone else to support you or help? You talk to understand things. Or what if you even have parents, who are like, we're really poor. Yeah. You're a good singer. Yeah, the church or like this group is willing to give us money and that's how the rest of your family is going to eat. Exactly. Like you can I don't think you can blame these kids for of me making the air for making that decision. There was actually you know, a quote by this guy. Now, excuse me, I'm really bad at pronunciation with like for Italian. Well yeah, for names in general, so go read. Ooh, birthday. Which was a great.

24:29 Cre karate. Oh, I don't know, Grazie, I think that's probably at Uber theory. He is a music dude, in 1630 this quote that he said, kind of talks about that process. The thought process of like, the parents, the children, these people who are kind of manipulating potentially these, these boys. So he says, I rage against certain inhuman, people. And Unworthy of the name, father, and master, who in the Hope of some profit try to ensure that their children accustomed to singing with a pleasing voice. Do not lose it as they grow up. Thus subjecting them to bonds to Cuts in order to make them profitable for themselves and useless for to the work of nature.

25:17 I hear. I hear that sure. but like we just said a minute ago, it's easy to, it's easy for this dude to say I wasn't easy for him to say, that's the bottom line. But you do have some parents who are like, oh yeah, we can use some extra cash. Hey, you know, fabrizzio or whatever. You're a decent singer. We need a paycheck. You know, the stage parents today, right? Like, you have stage parents or like child actors, who have gone through fucking hell and have basically paid for their families. Yeah, you know, like singer, see things like Yeah.

25:57 Who you know parents willingly? Take advantage of them. Oh my God, these parents. Yeah yeah. So I could see both sides. Yeah I did and but I do think it's easy to it's easy to say that Europe. Taking advantage and doing awful things on your benefit. Yeah, yeah, it's really super easy. So, One thing that I think is probably we haven't gone over yet those useful. So you can't wear your you know, earmuffs or anything like that. You have to listen to this. How did they castrate these? Boys?

26:38 Be ready. Okay, oh God, oh God. Okay, wait, so do you know how they say? I think this is how they do cows. Do you know how to do, carrots? Don't they put like a rubber band? Yes. Okay. Okay. Explain and please, so they I can't even imagine. So they take, they just they take the band, they just tie it really tight like a rubber band on the top. But right above the balls on the sack and they just I really tight and it eventually because Cuts cutting off the circulation. Yeah and eventually they just Fall off like these pastures of just like all those look like a prune. Nope, it's not.

27:33 Not prunes. So that's right. I'm my mom was this show and I'm frightened to say this but Mom just fast forward a couple minutes. Yeah. So Okay, we're all adults. Hopefully listing real do. Yeah. Okay, I think so. Okay. I am. I hope so. Yeah, you should be an adult. You should be. So you know, there's times when you do stuff, right right. Thank you crazy. Gillo cry. Just try some stuff of course yeah and let me just say yes me no likey okay you know what you like and There's definitely something, you'd only some things, I don't, let's just leave it at that. So, this conversation that you're about to say is gonna be a little uncomfortable.

28:28 Okay. Well, okay, as you today, uh-huh. Maybe if you were younger, like you said, you wouldn't really give a shit whatever. Okay, so, how did they castrate? So, ultimately, we're talking typically boys with good voices. Were taken back to a Back street art, like a back street, like, Barber surgeon, you know, think of Sweeney Todd. Yeah. Yeah, Queenie Todd. But like, your parents asked him to do this to you, just like killing him, you know. So he takes these boys are placed in a super hot bath with special herbs and spices and their doped up on opium because there is no like, you know, anesthesia at that time.

29:12 Gotcha. They're all fucked up on opium. Yeah, in this. Ali. Hot bath and take a deep breath. Kevin. Obviously, put them in a hot bath. While high on opium. They're all fucked up on opium. Yeah. Super high. Okay. Oh no. Okay. Okay, breathing. Okay. Yes, I'm breathing. The barber would then squash the testicles and remove them by slitting. The groin, and severing the spermatic cord. Okay. You okay over there, huh? Okay. So in its Heyday in Italy 4,000 boys would be castrated a year. Okay, so we have to go back for a sec.

29:54 Yes, go back. So are the tests I hmm, like gone or are they just severing the thing that connects the The gym, you know, allows the sperm to pass through. That's a great question is. Well, the, the testicles are removed. They are removed. Yeah. So they're there because they just like Lego, they slipped the groin, take the testicles out, take that spermatic and like, and that severs the spermatic cord. Uh-huh. Yeah, they just so back up myself, back up, goddamn and I'm sure that like sometimes, you know, it Wouldn't work or wasn't done. Well, maybe it was done.

30:43 Slightly different. Do you think they knew how did they know what they were doing? Well, this had been a practice, like ultimately it had really been a practice since like ancient ancient times this is probably one surgery. They had down pat yeah yeah. Out of all the surgeries this was like okay it's only your balls as not like severing a limb. It's like super, super easy. Quick incision, you know, not okay. But also there B-boy Latonya not even mine, sorry to interrupt again. But the, these boys were just high. They weren't they were, um, no. They weren't unconscious. No, I'm assuming the shit had to hurt like an effort when you think about it.

31:24 Like one thing I thought, like maybe it was a hot enough bath, you wouldn't be able to feel anything. Yeah. What was the hot bath about? While the hot bath was? I think it was like like anti septic with the, the herbs and spices and stuff was to kind of make sure that there are super Clean when the surgery was done. That's what I assumed. Maybe it was also a relaxation technique, but one would think that you would use cold water or like something, you know, that would kind of numb the areas of or have was happening. What was about to happen. I mean, I'm sure that there are cases where they didn't know, but yeah, a lot of them would go and knowing that they were going to be castrated. Yeah. And and not, everyone is like, you know, when we're talking about that time, infection was rampant.

32:08 So it's like, not everyone would survive this You know, not everyone would survive. There were awful infections people to know that you're supposed to clean things, you know, I'm sure that they started doing the baths just because they saw that that was helpful for the majority but didn't really understand germs the way that we understand them today. So you know the thought of like keeping things clean and like you know using antiseptic and using he was porn or something like that. Goodbye to Benito. Spawns on the market like nah. Nah. That stuff. It was like, I thought so. So, some of these boys would die, right? Like, not all of them would survive, you know? One. And you know of those 4,000, boys, that would be castrated a year.

32:53 Not all 4,000 of them would become famous. We're talking about a small amount of people of those 4,000 a year that would even become opera singers. So, the others, the others would one. Hopefully they survived the actual surgery, right? And then too, Their option was singing in a church choir. Otherwise you're out of luck. Like what? If your you go through this whole process? And then I like, yeah, you're not good enough. So now you have to like, just live as a castrated person. Sorry about it. Yeah, yeah. I read about it, sorry. You know, you didn't really make the cut. You're like I did make the cut.

33:35 Oh, the cut is made, it was it's their sad. So you know, that was only the start of these, you know, potential kiss castrato. You know careers these boys were in intensive music conservatories where you know they would study singing performing Annunciation reading music, you name it and that shit is exhausting, okay? Yeah I mean that was they were doing this For their career, right? Is so it was like there. Yeah, it was our job. So they were so they were, they were doing this probably, you know, every hour of every day that they were awake and when their focus was getting them to be good. Yeah.

34:20 Yeah, they live side, be grueling it had to be grilling and these were these were long, grueling days, like they lived and breathed music. So it's not like, they were like living, you know, unless you became famous then maybe eventually start living a nice life. But like, this was not the Luxury this, these were people who were desperate to make it work and we had really risked, it all in the name of, you know, a career, singing career. Yeah. So a couple of famous castrato, I thought that we had talked about Farhan Ellie was of very famous one. At the time, he actually sing in London and women were heard squealing after his performance squealing one, God, one farinelli, and long live, the knife, the Blessed knife, okay. Jesus Christ, man.

35:06 Other words. Thank you for castrating your balls off. Yeah. Like thank God for that fucking knife. That took your balls out, you know, like which is where the the title of this episode comes from is from that, you know, that swooning. It was like it was honestly like the Beatles and Elvis. Yeah. Yeah. Early Elvis or or the Beatles Invasion only he was forced into being castrated. Right? So you know these men, there were a lot of social issues for the Not all of them were treated like rock stars right? Not all of them became operatic, famous singers. That was the minority. They were social outcasts and accused of, you know, awful things like, you know, infidelity or like, you know, trying to, you know, trying to tempt men and being homosexuals.

35:54 There are seen, you know, really is Outsiders within the community. Nobody like, maybe because they are these like artists who did this like, They're kind of fucking weirdos. They're seen outside of the actual culture, they weren't really embraced aside from their singing skills and probably a lot of them didn't have a choice. No, and do you think you The Catholics. Do you think the Catholics were were doing this to these people even though? It was in their religion. Do you think they were behaving this way? Or do you think it was people outside of the religion that we're treating them this way? Oh everyone. I mean, if you think of the folks who knew that they were, why they were doing it?

36:36 Yeah. No. I mean, yeah, they're probably sitting there like, of course. Anyway, it's like the Tale As Old As Time. These people who are like, oh well, you know, you're morally like, you know, because you got your balls cut off your, there's something wrong with you. And like, instead of Like having compassion, like a Christian should, and that's like what their gods as right. That's the exact opposite. They would they would pass judgment on them and it was something they didn't really understand. So, you know, they would be social outcasts, which is really fucking sad, right? So in 1587 Pope sixtus actually outlawed marriage for the castrati because there's no there was no purpose for family, right?

37:24 Like almost to the only purpose for marriage is propagation exactly. And so since you can't do that there is no need for you to marry somebody. There's no need for you to marry someone and the pope you're seeing the pope. Did that the pope did ya? Pope sixtus. 62 said, we cut off your balls, huh? We're going to cut off your balls. I'm sanctioning cutting off your balls. Yeah. And by the way now you have no rights to marry anyone. Yes, we cut off your balls. We really want to hear you in our choirs but like aside. From rights. Like you don't have any other item like I mean yeah sorry because like like there's no reason like even if you fall in love with someone which is possible, right? You don't need balls to fall in love. Yeah you just need like a brain so it's disgusting. It's super disgusting.

38:10 So you know it was out, it was outlawed for them so they were once again it's just kind of shows you that like how they were outside of the the social. They were social pariahs really people the time actually saw the issues of having Straw tea and pushed Pope Benedict, in 1748 to Outlaw the barbaric practice of castration for these boys. So instead of straight up like outlying it. As he actually reiterated some prohibitions against amputating body parts except in the cases of like medical necessity. So he's like people like, hey, you need to, like, you know, stop doing castration. These castrati, like shouldn't be in your choirs.

38:52 It's wrong. It's barbaric. He said, yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. It's really not good to amputate different body Limbs and stuff mic drop. That's not, you missed the whole point, okay? You missed the whole point Benedict. What the fuck? So, you know the Ultimately like what you kind of see from that is like, okay these Catholic choirs it's a necessity for them to have male Sopranos in there. Okay, fine, whatever, cool. Okay, how about you? Let the fuck women?

39:35 Sing Bingo? Yeah, yeah. It's like do as I say, not as I do like, yeah, castrati are bad. We love him in our and acquired, it's infuriating. Yeah. In France, they were disgusted by this practice. Of course, they would be Frenchie's. So Jean Jacques Rousseau is quoted in 1768 in the dictionary of Music. Saying in Italy, there are fathers so cruel as to sacrifice nature to Fortune and submit their children to this operation of castration. So now. Okay, they're saying yeah, no, no we're not doing castration the castrati. The church is saying the castrati that we have now. This was medical necessity.

40:24 Okay, so let me tell you a couple of been medical Necessities that occur. Oh sure. Okay, so far finale, there are far finale, the one that I was talking about before. Well, he fell off of a horse. Oh, which is why he was castrated. Oh pretty common. Sure. Yeah. And then another one, a Dominico Mustafa was bitten by a wild boar in his balls. Sweetie can stream. I mean, like really nature was doing it for us, like, like the wild boar really castrate. We didn't do it right? We just won't be playing real good. Yeah.

41:06 Oh my God. Yeah, we've actually been teaching him for a while. He just had a mishap with a wild boar like so fucking stupid. So moving forward and the 19th century, you know, that silly little ban on women singing. Uh-huh. It was over. Returned in the Catholic stage which is are those people states that you know, and I was when was this the 19th century 1900? Okay, so so now we have the people really questioning why there is even a need or a want for castrati. At this point those soprano voices that there are looking for women can naturally sing. Yeah, be the. Yeah, so the popularity of the castrati, really we aimed.

41:50 There were still some roles in operas, you know, specifically, Written for castrati. Because that's that was really what it was was like there were a lot of really famous operas where you need to talk about the mail, great shot for men that could sing high, right. But but at that time right you that's hard to find. It's hard to find just in general. Yeah. So the there were still rolls in those operas, but 1824 was when the final role for a specific like for castrati has been called out for Castro. Yeah, was composed. So and then I kind of talked about like, the last Otto. And that's Alessandro more Ashy. And once again I'm sorry I don't know if I can. All right, is he Italian?

42:30 He is Italian. Yes and when you look up castrato online like that just the Search terms, he's the first one to come up and I'm sure you're wondering what Alessandro sounded like I know that I did when I went wandering this whole time. Yeah like what is the blank? I hear a thought. I hear it in my head but I'm I don't know. No, so before I actually even hit play, I want to just warn folks to turn down the audio. Slightly little high. It can be just a little bit high, so sure, I'm so here we go. Here's Alessandro, okay. A lot it's a lot so I'm gonna

44:12 put on my Simon Cowell has oh yeah please do. Please do the black v-neck and everything. Yeah white turtle we had some good vibrato. Yes, a note. There was really some nice steady vibrato and there was a note it was funny. Huh? It was so not good. Yeah, I mean I don't think that was good like I don't know, maybe I'm just used to the Adele's and the celine's and the Ariana's that I'm like, was that?

44:53 But yeah. And maybe back then, it was great. But um, gosh. Well and of course, I get the high notes now because that's what I was picturing in my head. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Super high. No Hooper. Hi. Hmm. But can you have that was part of the castration. Well, yes, I'm sorry. Get I remember it was here yesterday before or after puberty before before, puberty had like one of those like wild boar incidents where he like fell off the horse right now. Because that's why do you think because we can't know this but do you think that he just happened to be like? Well, okay, so that is something that that did come up.

45:35 They said well maybe he actually had like some kind of internal hernia which caused him to have to get Don't really know for sure why he was castrated. He was a singer though in Rome. And they I think he, they call him something like the angel of, you know, of Rome or something like that, Vatican or whatever. Like his voice could have just been a naturally. His vocal cords were such that he was just a naturally High singer. Anyway, or do you think the know he was pretty prevented him? I, I think it definitely helped him because the whole idea behind the car. Strata was like you have these really high notes and these men who have huge lungs like of of a man like yeah, he's huge broad chests. Yeah.

46:21 But it's the vocal cords of do that and I just find it and I could be wrong. I'm not a medical person. The I don't think your balls. Create the testosterone that are actually helping you do that. I don't think the semen is the key. So to say that cutting off your balls, changes stops your vocal. Hordes from expanding or whatever it does to give you those lower voice. Yeah I just I don't I'm not buying it. Well it is a I mean it is a thing, you're not guy that guy did have I don't know. I think there are probably other ways to do it, but this was a way that they did it. Yeah. So you know I I mean he was the last castrato. Okay.

47:05 And he was the only one. That's been recorded. That's why I like, you know, really? Yeah. So this is the The only castrato who has actually been recorded probably because that's it would died off really time when they could start recording was exact time when he was alive. Yeah. So I like also thinking about it. I'm like, was he as good as some of these other ones like, far finale? That's what I was thinking, killing us because we're like, way way better. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that like like, you know, for people to be swooning and like beatlemania like they had like amazing voices. I wouldn't say that Alessandro's, I think that he had a nice voice but I mean Like my head kind of past pounding just from hearing. Look, I don't think I can watch on to that for very long.

47:46 No, I couldn't. I be like, yeah, but I mean, also, you're thinking about it when you see it if you're in a big if you're in, this is a chapel and it's like there's Acoustics and stuff like that because everything. Yeah so I actually have like a description and we'll have some images like will have links to images and the show notes but his expect this was a quote from somebody who knew him. So his External appearance differs little from that of a you from that usual for a singer. He's a medium or rather small stature. He is like a his likeable face is completely beardless. His chest, remarkably Broad and Powerful. His speaking voice has a metallic quality.

48:28 Yeah, I could hear that metallic quality listening about like a very high speaking tenor. Khatma can click his voice and demeanor make a youthful impression. Forced by his Lively conversation, which add to the altogether, Charming picture that this singer presents now, Alessandro died in 1922. And with that was the last planned castrato. Now, whether or not there have been people who have been chemically castrated. That's, you know, I've heard stories of that, yeah, to retain their vocal, like vocal, You Know, chords in high notes, not show. But that's kind of the story of the, of the castrato. Oh, the Blessed knife.

49:12 And by the way, I just want to point out, I didn't mention this before. If people aren't watching when Alicia played that clip, she had a picture. Oh yeah. Alessandro Alessandro. Huh. The final one? Yeah. Yes. You can. You can watch that. We have a. We have YouTube and we also have on Spotify. Yeah. The ones all of them. Yeah. So I thought that I would just clean our the dust off of this sign in our bizarre area for world. But the fact that it even fucking existed is kind of insane. Shane, yes, yeah, yes, it's crazy. Yes, you think well, that's what I am when I said before is like, oh, I think I know why they castrated people. And is exactly why I thought they did what you did. What you ended up saying?

49:55 I was right. Because people are, they don't know, it's just things that we do. Let me just put it that way. The things humans do. Are so effing bizarre, sometimes. What and why, why why? I mean, why not, I'd say that's probably the idea is, why not? I I've always been fascinated by castrati and castrato singers. Like when I found out that it was a thing I was like, whoa, what? This is so weird and it was like such a popular thing for so long, you know, and these poor people who did this, you know, you just have To feel for him. Yeah, yeah.

50:44 I definitely for the ones who feel like they've, maybe they had no choice or there were forced into it. Yeah, yeah. That's it's sad. It's really sad. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. There's so much there's so much. Brain is like, just like yeah, running through all this stuff. What? I didn't even know about them. So yeah, just say that you've enlightened me, didn't even know. I didn't realize this such a thing. Did you learn something new every day? Something new everyday go home. So you know, I guess I'm this is where I just say, you know, thank you for today. Thank you. And one thing I will say is, do us a favor and keep all your body parts intact. Let's keep our body part please, we have them for a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

51:32 Unless unless it's, unless of wild boar comes in, like tears it off. Then yeah, then you can have the rest of it taken off. Thanks for the story. Thank you fun until next time enjoyed. Yeah, there's cheers man.