The Tylenol Murders

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Hello, Bizarre Story friends.
You've tuned into the Bizarre

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AF, a place where we talk about
the strange, the unusual, the

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unknown, and all things bizarre
AF.

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I'm Kevin.
I'm going to be your host for

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today's episode, and as always,
we ask that you keep an open

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mind, keep a skeptical ear, but
keep listening to the facts as

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we take you on our newest
journey, the Tylenol Murders.

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Well hello everyone and please
welcome my Co host Des with the

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most Des Alicia.
Hey, girl.

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Hey.
How you doing?

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I'm doing good.
How you doing?

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I'm good.
If you're watching, you can see

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this thing right here.
Isn't that cool?

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It's our, it's J Rod.
It looks like J Rod.

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It's our little alien friend.
Yeah, you know, it's funny.

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We were talking about, we did.
We posted it on our tick tock a

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couple weeks ago.
I was like, Oh my God, let's do

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this idea.
Let's gut like, let's, let's do

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this like viral sound or the
sound that's like really

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trending, but we'll have an
alien involved.

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Right, we did it digitally.
Yes, we did it digitally and our

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alien friend came in digitally
and I, honestly, I needed that

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laugh so fucking bad.
And so we're taught.

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I was like crying.
I was crying because I thought

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it was so funny and I was
telling and I was like, we would

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get so much use out of a fucking
alien head.

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We need to like buy a mask.
Well then I was like well OK,

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let me see some alien masks.
None of these really look great.

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What else can we do?
I found some like 3D printed

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masks and then I found 3D print
printed mask PDF that you could

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pay for on Etsy.
And then I was telling you about

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it and you're like, no, let's
just get a free 1.

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And so literally that night the
fucking mask was started

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printing.
He's massive.

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Massive.
This is off topic today, but

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look, I mean, we might as well
sure, encourage people,

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encourage people to laugh.
It is.

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I mean look at that huge.
It takes up, it takes up like

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all of your the top of your head
and then all the way.

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Down right, because their heads
are so fucking huge.

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They're massive.
They're the top of their heads.

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They've got a little pretty
mouth.

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Teeny tiny mouth and like it's
cut out.

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Like haven't even cut it out and
everything.

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How long did that take to print?
Well, in SO I have actual

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printing 3 days.
Three days.

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Three days.
Like Kevin?

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Of literal constant printing,
but it took longer because I ran

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out of filaments and I had to
wait for it to be delivered.

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Yes.
Which I was telling, I was

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telling Kevin I'm like, oh fuck.
Like I need to get.

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He's like, there are so many
colors of filament.

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Thank God he actually had some
green.

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Oh my.
God, right, Yeah.

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I was like, OK, moving forward,
we're going to be printing a lot

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more things.
I need to get some filament and

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like different colors and
there's so much to get so many

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choices.
Kevin sent me options, but

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there's J Rod, there's our.
J Rod Girl Hey, so I have a

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question for you.
Yes.

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Do you find it difficult to open
a fucking aspirin bottle?

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OK, I'm the worst.
This is the worst.

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I almost think like adult
gummies is even harder if you

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ever in that.
I mean, look, you don't need to

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like honestly, you don't need
to.

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You know those are the hardest.
Well, like, you know, you have

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takes you forever to get the
box.

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Like we're talking specifically
aspirin and Tylenol.

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Yeah, it takes you just to get
open the box is a nightmare.

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Oh my God.
Because it has like seal.

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Like a seal on sealed so hard.
Yes, really, really hard.

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Like just the box itself, just
at least a sticker.

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And then you have to like you
typically, you typically like

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break the you RIP the whole
thing for whatever reason.

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You have no patience.
And then you got to RIP that

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freaking plastic seal around the
lid.

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Yes, getting that off sometimes
a pain in the egg.

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Total pain in the ass depending
on how it was like put on and

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then.
Putting 17 tons of pressure on

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the calf to get it off.
Right, because you have to push

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down and then turn it.
And then peeling the foil off is

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impossible.
You, Oh my God, have to jab it.

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You oftentimes have to jab it
and it doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter how they're
like, just peel this little

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piece of like plastic and then
the whole thing will come off.

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It never happens.
It never happens.

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And then you got to contort your
fingers to get the cotton out.

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Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you're like, OK,

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they should sell some tweezers
with this because this is like a

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very narrow fucking like, yeah,
it's a chore.

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It's a total chore.
It's a chore and what the story

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that I'm telling you about is
truly why that exists today.

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It is.
That is what?

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This is why that exists.
Why the pain in the ass

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situation?
Yes, ceremony.

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It's literally why it exists.
I'm excited to hear it.

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So before you were even a
thought in your mama's eye.

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We'll see about that.
Or your daddy's eye.

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September 29th, 1982 to be
exact.

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That's true, I guess.
Arlington Heights, this is in

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Illinois.
It's this fire station gets a

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code one with the color code
one.

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OK Well, a guy by the name of
Adam Janis, 27 years old, he

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wasn't feeling that well that
day.

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And he tells his wife I'm going
to stay home from work.

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And so he takes some pain meds.
He wasn't feeling well.

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They get this 911 call.
They go to him, his house.

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They couldn't revive him.
They couldn't stabilize him.

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And he dies and they're saying
he had a heart attack.

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Right.
I mean how often?

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27 years old which is weird for
a heart attack but there was no

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other cause young and they
couldn't revive him.

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But how often does that happen?
Someone just like I don't feel

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good and they just drop dead.
It does happen.

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Does.
Happen.

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I think they couldn't explain
any other.

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But he was healthy.
They're always healthy, family

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gathers, gathers at the
hospital.

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Everyone's completely confused.
They're masking each other.

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Did Adam have a heart condition?
Like did anyone know about he

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had a heart condition?
Is he doing some?

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Hard drive.
He's doing anything weird.

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His wife's like, no, he just
wasn't feeling well.

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And so his parent, the parents
are like, OK, well, I want

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everyone to come to our house
and we're going to kind of do

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this whole grieving thing.
This is later in the afternoon.

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And Adam's brother Stanley and
his wife, Teresa, they didn't

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want to go because they weren't
feeling well.

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They said, we'll come by
tomorrow.

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And mom said, no, no, no, no,
I'm at you have to come.

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We're although families coming.
We're insistent you have to

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come.
So they begrudgingly go again.

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Like I said, they weren't
feeling well.

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They see some Tylenol sitting on
the table.

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They both take some.
A few minutes later, Stanley

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falls down.
Foam starts coming out of his

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mouth.
He starts shaking.

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It's now about 6:00.
Arlington Heights gets another

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Code 1, exact same address that
they had just six hours ago.

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And they're like, this can't be
real.

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And so they get there, realize
it's exactly the same situation

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they just dealt with six hours
ago.

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They can't get him stable.
They're losing him.

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Teresa, his wife is holding the
paramedic, shaking them, going

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Stanley, Stanley, Stanley.
Suddenly she falls down.

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Same thing happens to her, can't
stabilize her.

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They both die.
Oh my God, they both die.

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Just die just like they see they
see the beforehand.

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Yes, and they were just there.
This is not deja vu.

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Right.
This is the same shit that's

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happening.
Again, same address, same exact

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scenario, everything's
identical.

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Oh my.
God, so we have.

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Three people at one address
dying in six hours.

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So they call the public health
nurse to investigate and she has

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to come out, try to figure out
what is going on.

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She looks to the fridge, see if
anybody's had anything toxic to

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eat.
Couldn't try any food.

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Poisoning or food?
Poisoning what?

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The touching?
She just goes to the bathroom,

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she sees a brand new bottle of
extra strength Tylenol.

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Well, she has the wherewithal to
lay them out and counts them,

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and she sees there are exactly 6
missing.

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She's got three people dead, 6
capsules missing, generally take

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two.
Right.

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She's like, it's got to be the
Tylenol.

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Yeah, So.
Oh.

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What a smart cookie.
Totally.

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So the parents get the parents,
let's get back to the fire

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station.
One of them calls his friend to

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kind of tell, tell them what's
been happening in the day.

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And he's telling his friend.
He says, you know, the only

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thing that all of them had in
common was Tylenol.

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And his friend pauses and goes,
what?

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He goes, there's this lady in
Elk Grove, last name Kellerman,

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who lost her 12 year old little
girl this morning because she

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had a cold, wanted to stay home
from school.

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Mom let her stay home from
school, gave her a couple

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Tylenol girl dies.
What?

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So like what is happening?
This is this is multiple age

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groups, right?
It's not like it's a there's

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some kind of like what
widespread pandemic that's

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happening and it's really
affecting people who are in this

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demographic, right?
This is this kind of is running

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the gamut.
It's different ages, it's men

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and women, It's it's children
and the.

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Thing in common Tylenol.
So like, OK.

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Oh my God, we.
Got we got some, we got a

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problem.
So the paramedics call the

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hospital to talk to the chief
critical care doctor.

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They tell him.
And the only thing the doctor's

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thinking of is there is no way.
There is no way you have to take

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tons of Tylenol to overdose in
it.

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And by the way, it would take
like two or three days to die.

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He like it couldn't happen that
fast.

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So he in his mind he's like this
can't possibly be Tylenol

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because again they had no
symptoms and in his mind it

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would take a few days for this
OD to occur.

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Right, because you have, it's
just like a, it's plain numbers,

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like you can't take that many
pills in a day.

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Exactly, so they send the pills
to the lab.

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Confirms that these pills have
cyanide.

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In the next day on the 30th,
ACNN reporter kind of gets news,

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this news ticker about this
event.

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He didn't really have anything
going on, so he decides he's

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going to kind of go investigate
this some more.

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Slow Newsweek.
Yeah, they do a press release

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about how two different
locations have had death from

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extra strength Tylenol and are
telling people they really

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shouldn't take any more until
they kind of know more.

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This starts going national.
By the end of that day, there

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were four more deaths.
Oh my God.

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One of which they don't find out
about until, like, a few days

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later, Poison control line
starts overloading because

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people are so scared that
they're literally driving down

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streets on bullhorn.
Stop taking a car.

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Oh, my God.
Children are dying, blaring in

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on TV banners across all
programming.

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00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,040
I mean, like, they're they're
freaking out.

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So Johnson and Johnson owns a
company called McNeil.

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00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,160
And McNeil is the company that
makes the Tylenol.

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00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,800
Yeah, well, Tylenol is the very
most profitable product Johnson

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00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:26,840
and Johnson has.
I.

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00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,560
Can see it.
The very most profitable.

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And so now the executives are
scrambling, trying to figure out

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like, what the fuck?
Like we are going, we're dead.

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00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,040
Like our company's done.
This is, this is our, this is

228
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,560
our profit, our money maker.
Like this is it.

229
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,240
We're done.
We're going to get sued, we're

230
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,320
going to lose our most
profitable product, but we're

231
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,080
effed.
Right.

232
00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080
We are like people don't call it
acetaminophen, they call it

233
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,640
Tylenol.
Like, like we don't call it.

234
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,720
I don't call it, you know?
I don't call it like, you know,

235
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,440
you call it Band-Aid.
You don't call it, you know,

236
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,320
what is it a bandage?
Yeah.

237
00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,280
It's like it is synonymous with
acetaminophen, which is the

238
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,560
active ingredient in Tylenol.
That's right.

239
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,200
It's the brand.
Name that is right, Q-tip.

240
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,040
Cute.
Exactly, exactly.

241
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,720
Instead of cotton salt.
Yeah, of course.

242
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,960
You're going to be like, OK, get
let's figure out, you know, 9 or

243
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,800
9 or, you know, SOS, put out the
bat, the Tylenol bat signal.

244
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,400
You need this to be taken off.
Exactly the commercials at the

245
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,120
time for Tylenol.
And I actually remember this

246
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,560
time because remember, I'm in
junior high.

247
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,840
Right at this point, yes.
In my life and the title

248
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:36,240
commercials were all about our
family trusts, Tylenol and

249
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,040
hospitals do like it was like 1
in hospital one in five.

250
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,880
Doctors or four in five?
Doctors, that was like the

251
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,800
medication for hospitals, like
that was what they would

252
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,360
advertise like this is the
medication hospitals use.

253
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,160
Tylenol is what hospitals use.
The pain reliever that.

254
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,000
Is the pain reliever of the
hospitals.

255
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,840
Exactly.
And so now suddenly they've got

256
00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:02,400
this happening, so people are
scared.

257
00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:03,920
Right.
And now hospitals are like bit

258
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,160
we're giving.
People Exactly, exactly DA.

259
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:10,520
The DA gets a call from the
executives at Johnson and

260
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,440
Johnson and they ask the DA like
what can we do?

261
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,360
And the DA is like, stop fucking
selling Tylenol.

262
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,680
Like, take it off the shelf.
That's what you can do, yeah.

263
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,120
Yeah, take everything off the
shelf.

264
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:20,840
Take it.
Off the shelf.

265
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,240
So at that time it was the very
largest recall that had ever

266
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,600
happened in American history.
Millions of bottles had to be

267
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,600
recalled.
Of Tylenol Tylenol.

268
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,240
Extra strength Tylenol extra.
Strength.

269
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,680
So OK, I have just a quick side
question.

270
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:40,480
You think they could do this
today?

271
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:41,840
You think this would happen
today?

272
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:43,800
Do I think what would happen
today?

273
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,560
Let's.
Say something very similar had

274
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:47,840
happened with something that
everyone uses.

275
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,640
They find out, Oh my gosh, it's,
you know, something's going on.

276
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,920
Poisoned or?
Something's poisoned we found,

277
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,480
like, you know, whether it's a
bad batch, whether it's whatever

278
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,520
you think there would be a
recall on that level.

279
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,520
Probably not.
I agree.

280
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,440
I totally agree.
I think that the fact that this

281
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,520
even happened.
Because we've had recalls of

282
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,160
like salmonella, like all these
other things, and it's never

283
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,720
been a nationwide.
No, like people are getting

284
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,800
salmonella like and like what
was it all the bird flu stuff?

285
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,240
Like a A lot of that had to do
with shitty practices or there

286
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,400
was something E.
Coli like this even works.

287
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,480
Like what was it?
It was like linked to romaine

288
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,160
lettuce and it was.
Like a state recall or like our

289
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,400
area region, be careful.
Buy food.

290
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,240
Yeah, wash it.
And you're like, wait a second,

291
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,440
why would we just not?
Why would we stop selling it?

292
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,160
Because it's it's profit over
people owned without.

293
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,640
Question.
This could never happen today,

294
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:48,640
no.
I don't there's.

295
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,560
No way I.
Agree.

296
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,360
I I fully agree.
So investigators go to the lab.

297
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,200
So the capsules are two parts.
There's half red, half white.

298
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,760
Well, they see that these
capsules that had the cyanide in

299
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,000
them, there was this brown ring
where the cyanide, those that

300
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,640
had cyanide in they found was
creating this brown like ring

301
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,320
from where the cyanide was
forming on the capsule.

302
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,600
And they could tell that they
had been, they feel like they

303
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,440
could tell that they've been
pulled apart, emptied, filled

304
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:19,880
with cyanide and put back
together.

305
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,600
That is what they believe.
So, so it's, it's on a from a

306
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,840
plant, it's from the
manufacturing level that's.

307
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,440
What they're like, yeah.
Did somebody do this, put them

308
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,920
in?
Yeah, exactly.

309
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:34,960
That's that they're figuring
out.

310
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,640
They're trying to figure out
when did this happen?

311
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,160
Yeah, in the whole.
Process from the fucking inside.

312
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,120
So Ronald Reagan decides he
wants the FBI involved.

313
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,600
Oh great.
Fucking Ronald Reagan.

314
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,760
So they they are briefed
immediately and they set up a

315
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,840
task force.
So they need to figure out for

316
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,960
sure, like when did this happen?
Was it the manufacturing

317
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:55,760
process?
It process?

318
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,440
Was it between manufacturing in
the store?

319
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,200
Was it in the store?
Because remember, things were

320
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,800
not packaged the way that they
are today.

321
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,640
They did not have the impossible
to open box.

322
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,440
They did not have the wrap
around the lid.

323
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,120
They did not have the seal on
the they did not have any of

324
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,120
that.
In fact, many times it was just

325
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,440
the bottle sitting on the shelf.
With just a lid on, we'd.

326
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,320
Open it up and you there's a
piece of cotton or something in

327
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,560
there like that's how they used
to sell it.

328
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,520
Like it was just, it was just a
bottle of pills with like.

329
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,720
Aspirin bottle of Tylenol.
Right, which makes sense.

330
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,520
I'm assuming it was like in a in
a plastic container or whatever,

331
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,960
but they used.
Plastic bottle they used.

332
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,960
Like like plastic was a
relatively new invention, so it

333
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,280
used to be sold I'm sure in like
glass bottles and you might even

334
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,640
way.
Back in the day, yeah, yeah,

335
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,600
that was probably behind the
pharmacy and stuff.

336
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,880
But nowadays it was just on the
shelf, like you could just go

337
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:49,800
grab it.
Why?

338
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,920
Wouldn't it be?
Open it up and start.

339
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,680
You could, you could take two
and put it back on the shelf

340
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,080
like that's how it was open.
Right, right.

341
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,480
Back then, which makes sense.
There's no reason.

342
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,840
There be any reason to do
anything different?

343
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:03,960
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not like like there's

344
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,520
no sadistic reason.
People aren't any reason.

345
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,760
You're just buying like that's
like that's like, well, now we

346
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,400
have like an entire thing to buy
bananas.

347
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,240
It's like, no, you can just buy
a banana, grab a banana and buy

348
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,400
it singly like there's did you.
Know back then you could

349
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,760
actually buy cyanide from the
hardware store, no?

350
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,480
Well, oh, wait, wasn't.
Isn't that like rat poison or

351
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,240
something?
OK, I actually, you know how I

352
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,839
knew that?
No.

353
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,920
Well, OK.
Or how I knew something like

354
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,760
that.
Arsenic and Old Lace, The play.

355
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,720
Anyway, I didn't know.
Like, it was OK.

356
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,040
It was a roundabout thing.
Wow.

357
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600
Well, they determined that the
bottles were all purchased at

358
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,720
different stores, so it's not
like all the bottles came from

359
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,040
the same store.
Which is terrifying because you

360
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,880
can't be like, OK, it was the
specific shipment.

361
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,720
Right, they were all in the
Chicago area.

362
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:54,920
It's not happening anywhere
else.

363
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,280
It's not.
Happening in any other country

364
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,240
or any other state?
Yeah.

365
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,400
Or any other part of Illinois.
It's like within this like 25

366
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,600
mile radius of Chicago.
Interesting.

367
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,520
And so they map out the stores
and the time that it would take

368
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,640
to walk to each store, put a
bottle on the shelf and then

369
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,520
walk out because they're like,
OK, did somebody get the

370
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,160
bottles, do this, pull them
apart, put cyanide in them, put

371
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,160
them back in and then go to the
put them back in the store.

372
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,720
This is what they're trying to,
to figure out, right?

373
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,240
So they go, they map out all the
stores, try to say, how long

374
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,280
would it take for me to go to
each store, put a bottle on the

375
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,480
shelf, walk out and go to all of
the stores and do that.

376
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,480
And they said it would take a
little over an hour.

377
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,120
So it wasn't implausible to.
Pull apart aspects of that.

378
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:47,760
No, to literally have like you
go grab.

379
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,320
Let's say you go grab.
Multiple bottles you go.

380
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,120
Tamp you go taint them all and
then you go, OK, today I'm going

381
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,240
to go put them in the stores.
And so then you go store, store,

382
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,560
store.
It would only take you about an

383
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,280
hour to do that.
Hey, hey, gotcha.

384
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,680
All right.
Like to get from one point like

385
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,440
so.
Maybe they stole the whole bunch

386
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,080
and then did it, or they bought
a whole bunch and then did it,

387
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,640
you know what I mean?
That's what they're trying to

388
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,320
make sure is it.
Is it feasible?

389
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:14,080
Is.
It feasible.

390
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,800
Is it plausible?
There were no connection, no

391
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,760
crime scene.
There's no witness, there's no

392
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,440
motive, there's no evidence.
There's no fingerprints.

393
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,840
They're not connect.
Like where do you start?

394
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,920
I.
Mean especially if what is a 20

395
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,960
mile radius?
Yeah.

396
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,800
Where do you start?
There's so I mean, you have to

397
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,040
start in the fucking radius, but
also it's like like one, we're

398
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,240
not talking about someone who's
like mentally stable or mentally

399
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,520
there because like, like if you
think about it, why would you go

400
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,720
to such a huge.
Length.

401
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,760
Length, yeah, to like you're
pulling apart like caps and like

402
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,280
here's another question with the
like when they're looking at

403
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,440
these infected bottles, is it
every pill that has.

404
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,880
No, it's only a certain amount
of them in the bottle, generally

405
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,640
on the top, but it's a hand.
It's like small amount of them

406
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,280
that are actually full of
cyanide, so.

407
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,880
And which, you know, we could go
down a rabbit hole, but it's

408
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,200
like, OK, what did somebody buy
another bottle and then like put

409
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,560
cyanide in these capsules well
in advance and then throw them

410
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,680
in existing bottles, right?
Like they could have like just

411
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,280
thrown it on the top, but I'm
assuming they had counted all of

412
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,920
the bottles that were there.
So they have the right amount of

413
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,800
tablets.
It's like, this is like, we talk

414
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,480
about conspiracies all the time.
This is like a wackadoo

415
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:33,960
conspiracy.
Yes.

416
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,560
Again, why would you do that?
Was it manufacturing?

417
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,080
Yeah.
Was it OK if it was

418
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,520
manufacturing, was it
intentional?

419
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,120
Was it accidental?
That's right.

420
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,800
Did it happen?
And if it was after

421
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,360
manufacturing, then you go,
well, it has to be intentional

422
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,040
if it's after manufacturing,
right?

423
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,440
And so then it's like, who was
it during shipment?

424
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,600
Was it when it's received?
Was it with after it's put on

425
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,080
the shelf?
Like where in the fuck does this

426
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:54,760
start?
Right.

427
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,960
Like even with the
manufacturing, it's like, is

428
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,880
cyanide somehow in the plant?
Why?

429
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,720
Is cyanide in the plant if there
is cyanide in the So remember

430
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,080
that one person I told you about
that they found a few days later

431
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,600
that they didn't know about?
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

432
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,520
Well, that woman was a woman by
the name of Paula.

433
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,920
She was a flight attendant and
so when they when investigating

434
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,840
her, they end up finding video
footage of her at the drugstore.

435
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,720
Long story of her buying the
Tylenol.

436
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,920
They actually see her buying it.
So they know where she bought

437
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,320
it, when she bought it.
Well, they also see this man in

438
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,600
the background staring at her,
and they think he looks very

439
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,200
suspicious.
He's got this beard.

440
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,720
Yeah.
They, they they think he's

441
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,880
looking right at her this, like,
watching her buy it.

442
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,520
And so they're like, that's
weird.

443
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,600
Yeah.
So now we're about a week into

444
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,480
the task force, and they report
this, this this letter surfaces.

445
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:58,080
It's a handwritten letter and it
was sent to Johnson and Johnson

446
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,200
and it read.
This is what it reads,

447
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,800
gentlemen.
As you can see, it is easy to

448
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,920
place cyanide, both potassium
and sodium, into capsules

449
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,800
sitting on store shelves.
And since the cyanide is inside

450
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,000
the gelatin, it is easy to get
buyers to swallow the bitter

451
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,680
pill.
Another real beauty is that

452
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,960
cyanide operates quickly.
It takes so very little and

453
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,920
there will be no time to take
countermeasures.

454
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,360
If you don't mind the publicity
of these little capsules, then

455
00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,880
do nothing.
So far I have spent less than

456
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,800
$50 and it takes me less than 10
minutes per bottle.

457
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,440
If you want to stop the killing,
then wire $1 million to Bank

458
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:51,160
account 0444517 at the
Continental Allied Bank in

459
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,880
Chicago.
Don't attempt to involve the FBI

460
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,360
or local Chicago authorities
with this letter.

461
00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,040
A couple of phone calls by me
will undo anything you can

462
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:09,720
possibly do.
OK one, can we talk about the

463
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,560
fucking like monologue villain
monologue like a moment.

464
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:21,280
What the fuck Like bro ego check
your ego one but.

465
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,120
Like.
Also, oh, let me let me explain

466
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,040
to you.
Right, exactly.

467
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,920
How?
Smart I am and how dumb you are

468
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,760
you're.
So stupid.

469
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,240
I have, I've, I've done ample
things.

470
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,160
Cyanide, it was really great.
With gelatin.

471
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,280
It's like, shut the fuck up you
fucking piece of shit.

472
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,200
Why are you?
Doing somebody who would write

473
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,040
that letter A.
Fucking psycho.

474
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,000
Who would put cyanide into
capsules?

475
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,000
A fucking psycho and.
Who wants to like, kill

476
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,000
children?
A psycho?

477
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,600
A 12 year old who's just like it
has a headache.

478
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,200
You think that that's really
cool?

479
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,200
You know what?
Fucking get some friends, get a

480
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,880
goddamn hobby, you fucking
loser.

481
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,920
So are you kidding me?
Like and.

482
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,440
Who puts a bank account number?
Oh my God, like, like, OK,

483
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,360
here's another thing.
They're like totally pisses me

484
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:08,520
off.
You're sitting there.

485
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,040
It's like, oh, maybe he's like
like when at first as you're

486
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,800
reading this, I'm like, maybe
this guy like works there or is

487
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,560
like a higher up or like is
almost like a vigilante like

488
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,840
like someone who's like you guys
need to start protecting this

489
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,040
stuff because it's so easy to
get into it.

490
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,120
Anyone could do this.
Like one, who the fuck would

491
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,480
think about?
But then two, like my brains

492
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,560
like malfunctioning because like
it pisses me off that someone

493
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,680
even anyways.
So like then he goes into it

494
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,840
would take Me 2 phone calls to
undo everything that you just

495
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,240
did.
It's like, yeah, bullshit,

496
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,560
motherfucker.
You just asked, asked them to

497
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,360
put $1,000,000 into your bank
account.

498
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,880
It's like, it's like fucking
Doctor Evil who has no grasp of

499
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,800
like reality now.
Like what?

500
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,040
1 billion. 1,000,000 that's easy
to send a million dollars, $1

501
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,000
billion, Like what the fuck?
Like isn't that like this?

502
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,800
It seems to me like it is like a
red pill dude, right?

503
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,560
Like a person who is not
socially like OK, I'm gonna FBI

504
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,880
like profile him right now.
I'm assuming it's a him.

505
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,000
It could be a her.
I just don't see it.

506
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,640
I don't see it.
Although women do kill with like

507
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,960
poison and stuff like that.
Whatever.

508
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,680
I see that as a man.
I also think that he has not had

509
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,640
sex very often in his life.
I think that he has a fucking

510
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,840
chip on his shoulder and think
that thinks that he is the most

511
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,600
intelligent person in the room
and that's why he has no

512
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,640
friends, not because he's a
piece of shit.

513
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,360
And I would say at the very old,
maybe he was married once, but

514
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,520
at the very oldest I would think
like 40, I think probably

515
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,680
younger than that, well.
We're going to get into it a

516
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,040
second, but your your assessment
of their first suspect is not

517
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,800
far from that.
So the fact that they put a bank

518
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,560
account in there was suspicious.
So like, first of all, who's

519
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,680
that stupid?
But then you're like, well, then

520
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,320
then that tells me that it's not
the person that wrote like that

521
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,800
doesn't make sense.
Or maybe.

522
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:04,240
Or maybe you're just not on the
inside and like like like he's

523
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,920
trying to they're gonna double
hoodwink you like like it is or

524
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,200
double weird.
You have to be connected to that

525
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,760
person, right?
Somehow.

526
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,040
Yeah, I would think.
So they go look into the bank

527
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,240
account.
OK.

528
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,360
And obviously, whose bank
account is it?

529
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,760
It's this travel agency called
Lakeside Travel.

530
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,400
They go talk to the business
owner.

531
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,960
His name's Frederick Miller
Mccahey.

532
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,480
Pretty wealthy guy, actually
comes from a wealthy family.

533
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,400
OK.
Like, there's they figure out

534
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,200
there's he really has no motive
to do this.

535
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,280
Like, there's, it wasn't adding
up.

536
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,040
He tells the FBI.
You know, what's interesting is

537
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:47,800
I did have a kerfuffle with a, a
guy named Robert Richardson.

538
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,200
And he's the husband of a former
employee, Nancy, by the way.

539
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,280
And he had this really big
grievance because According to

540
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:02,240
him, her final paycheck bounced.
There is debate over whether

541
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,840
that happened.
Most of them think that's not

542
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,080
possibly true.
Again, this guy's this guy has

543
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,640
money.
Right, but also very wealthy

544
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,200
people.
Yeah, exactly.

545
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,800
Who knows?
But then, so now they go

546
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,120
following this Richard Robertson
lead.

547
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,280
Yeah, Long story short, they
figure out his handwriting

548
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,360
matches the letter.
OK, Richard.

549
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:24,480
Robert.
OK, now we're on to something.

550
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,560
Yeah.
They find his apartment in

551
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,160
Chicago.
Fits the area.

552
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,040
When they go to talk to him,
apartment empty.

553
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,960
OK.
Gone.

554
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,040
He's.
Totally.

555
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,040
Gone.
Totally gone.

556
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:44,000
More research turns up an essay
that was printed in the Chicago

557
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,720
Tribune called A Slice of
Chicago Life that he had written

558
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,880
some time ago.
In the past, yeah.

559
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,480
Yeah.
Next to the article was his

560
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520
picture so they can actually get
a picture of him.

561
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,560
He's.
A dweeb they.

562
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,800
Compare the picture to the still
video of the footage that they

563
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,520
had of the creepy guys starring
of Paula.

564
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,200
Yes, yeah, of.
Course the video.

565
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,760
Yes, of course the video of
Paula was what?

566
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:06,480
Blurry.
Blurry.

567
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:14,280
Always, always, always blurry.
But you could see a similarity

568
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,440
haircut style.
The same had a full.

569
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Beard.
Similar stature.

570
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,680
Similar is similar.
So they print out all these

571
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,040
wanted Flyers and put them, put
them everywhere because back

572
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,240
then, you know, it's like the
80s.

573
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,720
So you put the Flyers in the
post office and you know.

574
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,880
Blah blah blah on like on street
science, Yeah, on the.

575
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Post yeah.
So now we're in October of 82,

576
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,960
David Barton was the Sergeant in
Kansas City Police Department.

577
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,440
OK, he's watching the news.
They they're showing him on, on

578
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,520
the news.
And he goes, wait a minute,

579
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,920
That's not Robert Richardson,
that's James Lewis.

580
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,800
I know that guy.
He's in Kansas City because that

581
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,480
guy's not that's no, his name's
James Lewis.

582
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,320
So he calls the FBI so and says
I know this guy.

583
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,720
That's not his name.
Yeah.

584
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,360
So now they're the media starts
double dubbing this guy who they

585
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,920
don't know.
The media doesn't really know at

586
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,160
this point.
They're dubbing in the Tylenol

587
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,800
Killer.
Makes sense?

588
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,680
Seems obvious.
They start looking into his

589
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:21,800
background and they think this
guy fits the profile of somebody

590
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,720
that could and would do
something like this.

591
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,400
He has like 17 aliases.
OK, suspicious.

592
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,840
People that they've interviewed,
they call him conniving and

593
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,080
devious and manipulative and no
emotions, no compassions.

594
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,440
Some said he's the scariest
person they have ever met.

595
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,440
Really kind of weird and awkward
and and.

596
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,240
Doesn't have a lot of.
Everything that you you

597
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,600
described before.
And so they're like, it's got to

598
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:47,760
be him.
This has got to be him.

599
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,200
He just wrote that fucking
letter.

600
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,320
Yeah, I mean, it's his
handwriting.

601
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,840
It's his.
He wrote that letter.

602
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,120
Well, it was something Robert
was his OG name.

603
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,760
Robert Richardson.
Robert Robert Richardson's.

604
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,840
At least we know for sure.
It looks like it's his

605
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,920
handwriting.
They're they're confident, they

606
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,320
feel it's confident that it's
his handwriting.

607
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,080
Exactly, yes.
So they're still trying to

608
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,480
figure out who is this person
really?

609
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,480
Right.
Does he live in Chicago?

610
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,360
Does he live in Kansas City?
What is his name?

611
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,400
Yeah, so.
These really they find him they

612
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,000
start to investigate him sure
enough James Lewis is his name

613
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,600
and come to find out he had a
pretty awful life he was

614
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,360
abandoned as a child, had
emotional problems, had trouble

615
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,400
at school.
Anyway he goes on to get

616
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,120
married, has a child his child
was born with Down syndrome.

617
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,600
Also a heart problem at like 2
had to have an operation to plug

618
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,840
the valve.
It just his whole life was just

619
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,000
hard.
Yeah, a series of like

620
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,400
unfortunate events.
In 78 he opens his own tax

621
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,600
business with his wife.
Some time goes by and a guy by

622
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,880
the name of Ray W becomes their
friends.

623
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,360
And they say that they got
introduced by Ray because he

624
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,720
would stare in their window.
And it was like this really

625
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,120
weird thing.
He was kind of awkward.

626
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,120
And then one time he came in and
he said, what is this business?

627
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,960
And now who we know is James or
Lewis, right?

628
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,560
Says we're a tax business.
Well, they actually start to

629
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,520
become friends.
Of course they were.

630
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,440
They're both fucking weirdos.
Freak finds a freak.

631
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,280
Nothing wrong with that.
Let your freak flag fly.

632
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,400
But also, if you're killing
people, fuck you.

633
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:34,000
James daughter now at the age of
5 dies from that heart issue and

634
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,840
after she dies would go over to
Ray's house and reminisce about

635
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,240
his daughter.
But Ray says Jim started acting

636
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,000
a little strange and making Ray
feel uncomfortable like the

637
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,720
weird guy that was staring at
the window.

638
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,920
Now James is making the weird
guy who was staring the window

639
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,480
uncomfortable.
What a skill set can we talk

640
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,520
about?
Can we talk about like how how

641
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,200
fucking weird you have to be in
order to make with someone with

642
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,280
0 social cues feel like weirded
out by you?

643
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:09,040
So heat so Ray tells his sister
that one time he saw Jim sitting

644
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,120
in a car watching him while he
was leaving his dad's house so.

645
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,240
He's like a stalker.
This is like stalker behavior,

646
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:17,560
so.
Yeah.

647
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:18,280
Why?
Why?

648
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,360
Yeah.
Why are you watching that?

649
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,600
We're not hanging out.
Yes, exactly.

650
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,400
So Ray tells his friends about
this and that Jim was hanging

651
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,560
around too much and something
fishy was going on.

652
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
Right about then was the last
time anyone ever heard of from

653
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,520
Ray again.
So when the police come by Ray's

654
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,440
house to find him, there's a
note on the door and it's on

655
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Jim's tax business stationery.
It's on his tax business

656
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,080
stationery has stuck to his door
and it says Raymond has gone to

657
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,960
the Ozarks for three to four
days.

658
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,920
For further information, contact
Jim.

659
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,800
It was stuck to his door so
like.

660
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800
He's clearly expecting someone
to look for him.

661
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Right.
So the police get a warrant.

662
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,640
Obviously the guy's missing.
Yeah, go into his house.

663
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,120
This is like 3 weeks later by
the and they see some blood

664
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,960
splatter on the walls.
And then they look and they see

665
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,560
this blood drip from the
ceiling, but it's coming from

666
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:16,800
nowhere.
It's like it's coming from

667
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,680
underneath the crown molding,
almost like there's something

668
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,480
like a body coming from the
attic.

669
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,760
Yeah.
So they go up to the attic and

670
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,440
they find a fucking cut up body
up there.

671
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,280
Shut up and.
It's him, no?

672
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,840
Are you?
Dismembered legs are like cut

673
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,640
up.
So.

674
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,800
He head in a bag, bought torso
in a bag, legs in like wrapped

675
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,880
in a burlap.
EW EW.

676
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,000
And he like, he's just living
like in his house with his.

677
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,080
No, Jim never lived in his
house.

678
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,360
Jim never lived in his house.
No, I mean Ray, Ray.

679
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,720
Ray Yeah, Yes.
Is the one that's getting

680
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,480
murdered up in his attic.
Yeah.

681
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,480
Ray's getting murdered in his
attic.

682
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,840
Yes, Ray is dead.
In his attic.

683
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,040
Yes, right.
And Jim is gone.

684
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,120
Who we think is we thought was
Robert Richardson in the

685
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,280
beginning, right?
Yeah.

686
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,719
Is now Jim?
We know him as Jim, right?

687
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,560
Right, OK.
So Ray was the weird stalker at

688
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,760
Jim's tax business.
They become friends.

689
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,320
Ray then tells his friends, well
Jim's being weird, stalking me,

690
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,480
watching me.
Ray disappears.

691
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:30,239
Jim puts a note on Ray's front
door on his stationary saying he

692
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,639
went to the Ozarks for a few
days.

693
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,560
So let me know if you have any
questions.

694
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,080
Do they go fan Ray's chopped up
in his attic?

695
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,719
What the fuck?
Who out weirds the weirdo?

696
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,840
What this is like this is like.
Crazy, crazy fucking story.

697
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,199
I like zero.
I like.

698
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,040
Oh, and we're it's going to get
crazier, OK?

699
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,120
We're we're only getting, we're
only touching the surface.

700
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,280
Kevin was like, have you heard
of the Tylenol murders?

701
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,520
I'm like, yes, I don't know
anything about this, this.

702
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,680
Is everything's going to connect
here in a minute?

703
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,040
This is fucking crazy.
We are on a train ride.

704
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,400
Like to be able to like just
think about like the thought

705
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,280
process for someone to be able
to cut up a fucking body and

706
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,800
like, right, that's right, wild.
That's.

707
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,360
Not I don't even know how a
person could do it.

708
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,520
You're insane.
Insane.

709
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:25,280
So they find a bar of soap in
Ray's house because obviously

710
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,280
they have to investigate his
house.

711
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,200
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,800
It had blood, some blood, like
someone washed their hands,

713
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,960
probably right, and a couple of
hairs on it.

714
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,360
They figure out that one of the
hairs matches Jim Lewis.

715
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:37,920
You know Richardson.
Right, right.

716
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:38,680
No, no, no.
Yeah.

717
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:39,680
Yes, yes.
Yes, yes, yes.

718
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,520
They also find a $5000 check
that was written to Jims tax

719
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,160
business from Rays account and
they figured out that was a

720
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,840
forgery.
How did I not connect these

721
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,120
dots?
Jim gets arrested, yes.

722
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,720
Of course.
Claims he's innocent.

723
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,560
Turns out his Miranda rights
were violated because they

724
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,520
didn't read his Miranda rights.
They had to throw out all of

725
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,800
that evidence because they
didn't read him his Miranda

726
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,120
rights and they had to throw out
the case.

727
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,520
My God.
OK, can we talk about the

728
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,320
Miranda rights for a second?
So if you do not know what they

729
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,680
are, it's like the you have the
right to remain silent.

730
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,920
Anything you can say, anything
you say can and will be used

731
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,720
against you in a court of law.
You have the right to attorney.

732
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,840
If you do not have one, we will
provide you.

733
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,080
Basically it's like, hey, look,
don't fucking tell the police

734
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,600
officers.
It's like this.

735
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,280
This whole thing has to.
Tell you not to tell me

736
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,320
anything.
And then there are tactics,

737
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,080
right, that like police will use
we're friend, like there are

738
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,560
different ways, but you have to
read those read it.

739
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,760
And if you don't read those
rights, it is like against your

740
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,040
right as a citizen, as as a
human being, right?

741
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,120
If you not know what your
fucking rights are, right, you

742
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,080
do not know whether or not they
can be violated.

743
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,920
So, so it is like a statement of
truth that the police have to

744
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,000
say before any kind of interview
or information can be taken into

745
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,680
evidence and we.
Can see what happens when you

746
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,440
don't.
I mean it.

747
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,480
Was obviously him.
I mean, I'm sorry it's all you

748
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,480
would call it circumstantial
you?

749
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,120
Could call it circumstantial,
right?

750
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:09,840
Fucking.
You did it.

751
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,080
Yeah, please.
Yeah.

752
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,400
I mean, the fact the fact that,
like, all of these things align

753
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,920
like this is not a deja vu
coincidence.

754
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,000
It's like, no, no, no.
Like it does not matter if

755
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,800
you're looking at an
investigation, if it's some kind

756
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,960
of weird phenomena.
It's like these are things that

757
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,640
are legitimate.
And if we are unable to connect

758
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,960
the dots, like, like you have to
be able to.

759
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,720
You can't get fucking physical
proof for every single thing.

760
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,600
But like the whole thing was
thrown out.

761
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,480
How many people have died?
How many people have died?

762
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,960
Don't know.
And some douchebag fucking

763
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,640
police.
Officer with Tylenol, no.

764
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,080
If he's killed someone, he's not
the first time.

765
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,800
Especially if you're chopping up
shit if.

766
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,320
He's killed someone, put a
fucking head in a goddamn

767
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,560
plastic bag and is putting and
keeping it in his.

768
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,840
That'd be the only thing he's
ever done.

769
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,720
No fucking way.
Yeah, absolutely.

770
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,120
So now we're in 1981, which is a
year before or so before the

771
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,160
Tylenol murders, OK?
There are four or five victims

772
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:16,800
of this identity theft that's
happening, OK, We're a year

773
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,520
before Tylenol now.
OK, Tyrus 6 victims, they have

774
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,360
this identity theft.
Somebody assume their identity.

775
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,520
Yes, the only thing they all had
in common, it was Jim's

776
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,960
business.
And then they went to go search,

777
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,240
found after the fact searching
his house.

778
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,680
They could see draft extortion
letters to companies they saw

779
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,960
found fake ID's, they found a
book on poisoning, which at the

780
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,320
time didn't mean anything.
You're like.

781
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,040
Fucking thing, Yeah, you're
like, this is just like a

782
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:45,280
fucking weird.
It's a weird.

783
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,480
Person, Yeah.
Of course he had one so.

784
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,880
He gets arrested for mail fraud
or they send out a warrant.

785
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,160
That's right, they send out a
warrant or something for mail

786
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,680
fraud and then they go to arrest
him.

787
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,920
He jammed again.
He's a fugitive, slippery little

788
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:01,800
fucker.
He's gone.

789
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,440
I mean, yeah, talk about I
wouldn't, I would never call him

790
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,280
a criminal mastermind, never
call him a criminal mastermind.

791
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,360
This is like sociopathic
behavior because it's like he

792
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,680
does not care about what's going
to happen.

793
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,960
He does not care about.
He doesn't.

794
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,880
Yeah, that's not a
consideration, no.

795
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,200
No, no, no.
It's like, it's like his, like

796
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:21,680
it's his brain's not wired that
way.

797
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,920
I need this.
I'm going to get it.

798
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:24,800
What?
I'm going to do.

799
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,320
Threaten, as a matter of fact,
yeah.

800
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:32,000
So now Jim's living in New York,
and he says he hears his name on

801
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,720
TV and that the FBI are looking
for him not only for this fraud,

802
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,440
but now because of the Tylenol
murders, right?

803
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,400
He's been linked to that.
And so he tells his wife because

804
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,200
now the FBI are looking for both
of them.

805
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:56,760
So he tells his wife, he says,
so I wrote this letter and she

806
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,160
says, what's it about?
And he says, well, it's kind of

807
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,840
hard to say, but I wrote a
letter to a the company who made

808
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,960
Tylenol.
And of course she knows what has

809
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,840
happened with the Tylenol.
Yeah, it's national.

810
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,360
News.
She's devastated.

811
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,240
She's like she, he says.
She goes and lays in bed for

812
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,440
like two or three days after
that, won't talk to him.

813
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,960
In a complete depression.
All she can say to him is how

814
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,320
could you do that?
How could you do that?

815
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,320
How could you do that?
Right?

816
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,320
So she's completely fucked up
now.

817
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,120
So he decides now that he's
going to send a letter to the

818
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,200
Chicago newspaper and tell them
that he's innocent.

819
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,680
So he sends a letter.
To the Chicago newspaper.

820
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,920
Because innocent people send
letters to newspapers to be

821
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,600
fucking published.
Right, right, right.

822
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,040
Smart, smart, smart.
Something.

823
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,200
Like as you can.
Oh, it starts off with as you

824
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,280
have probably guessed, this is
how the letter starts.

825
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,000
As you have probably guessed, my
wife and I have not committed

826
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,440
the Chicago area Tylenol
murders.

827
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,440
We do not go around killing
people.

828
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,360
We'll never have and we never
should.

829
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,440
Well, as you can tell, as you
can tell.

830
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,520
OK girl, we don't know who you
are.

831
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,280
What?
Are you fucking talking about

832
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,200
girl?
We don't know you, we've never

833
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,000
met you.
Nobody fucking knows you.

834
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,880
Like no one cares as you can
tell as I.

835
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,400
Can tell from what?
You crazy fuck you.

836
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,400
Well, as you can tell, like it
still has that, like that air.

837
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,560
Of superiority, no doubt.
And and and then also his wife

838
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,640
is being brought into as you can
tell, we know we don't know you.

839
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,720
We don't know you from Adam.
We don't know who the fuck you

840
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:39,240
are and if you had.
Nothing to hide.

841
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:41,200
Go to the police girl.
Yes, yeah.

842
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,560
I mean.
From a basic do not not have

843
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,400
like the first thing you do Yes,
Chicago Tribune.

844
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,360
As you can tell, I'm innocent.
Chicago Tribune, I'm ready for

845
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,560
my close up, but also I have
sent you a telegram that will be

846
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,600
delivered not by telegram, but
by carrier pigeon.

847
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,360
We like are you're a fucking
piece of shit?

848
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:04,960
Like what weird.
A weirdo piece of shit.

849
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,960
No SO.
The police figure out the letter

850
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,360
comes from New York.
Hello Postmark we.

851
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,680
Live in We live in Chicago, but
shit, there's so.

852
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,960
They track him down, they figure
out where he is.

853
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,080
They literally figure it out.
They arrest him because

854
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,880
remember, there's, like I said,
they're still looking for him

855
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,640
from extortion from a year ago,
right?

856
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:27,600
Yes, he's a he's a wanted man.
And so, Jim, you can actually

857
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,640
hear this in an interview.
He goes, so let me get this

858
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,400
straight.
You get a letter and you go,

859
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,400
well, that must be the guy that
did it.

860
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,600
And they're like, yeah.
I mean, especially.

861
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,280
Since you just mentioned Tylenol
and that we had to give you

862
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,960
$1,000,000 to stop the Tylenol,
Yeah, we.

863
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,880
Know all of this?
We have not made all this

864
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,280
information public. 1-2 like
nobody does this.

865
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,560
This is not normal behavior.
You think you're smart, the

866
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,120
smartest person in the room and
you're a fucking fool.

867
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,480
Was his wife still with him?
Yes, you dumb bitch, you dumb.

868
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,440
Bitch, but things are going to
start getting weird.

869
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,600
My God, was she the killer?
Was she?

870
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,040
Actually?
No.

871
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:10,840
No, no, it wasn't her.
So they got to, they got to

872
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,680
figure out, they got to track
his tracks.

873
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:18,120
So they find that they had
bought a one way ticket on a

874
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,080
train to New York on September
4th.

875
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,760
This is 3 weeks before the
murders.

876
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,560
OK, they narrowed down the time
between the time the bottles

877
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,680
arrived in the store to be
between September 20th and

878
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,120
September 22nd.
Pills would have been purchased

879
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,960
on September 28th and the
murders were on September 29th.

880
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920
So this means that they would
have had to have been tampered

881
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,840
with between September 20th and
27th.

882
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,800
Day window.
So they go through train

883
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,200
tickets, rental cars, airline,
like anything they could

884
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,960
possibly imagine you're
gathering.

885
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,240
Information they could.
Not find any evidence that he

886
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,280
was in Chicago from New York
like none connect him to

887
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,680
Chicago.
What?

888
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:08,800
Zip 0 Zilch.
So they do convict him for 10

889
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,160
years for extortion.
The extortion letter extortion

890
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,320
letter to Tylenol.
They convict him for 10 years

891
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,840
for that.
OK.

892
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,120
And his wife is just like
sitting back doing nothing.

893
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,640
Yeah, apparently she's
devastated, but.

894
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,200
I'm so devastated.
I slept for two days even though

895
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,200
I believed that my my husband
was a killer.

896
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,600
OK, I don't care who the hell
you are.

897
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,280
You know, someone who's killed
someone, like killed innocent

898
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,080
people like that.
I'm not condoning violence.

899
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,440
Whatever, fuck off.
Like you don't get my sympathy.

900
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,360
You don't get anyone's sympathy.
Like a 12 year old fucking died

901
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,880
like you.
Need to do something?

902
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:44,320
If you know something, you got
to say.

903
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,320
Something you know something say
something loose lip sinks ships

904
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,680
exactly so.
Tylenol changes their

905
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,600
manufacturing process based on
all of this, what you see today,

906
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:54,880
right?
That's what they did.

907
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,440
Yeah.
They're trying to appease the

908
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,520
public, right?
Because that everyone has this

909
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,560
trust about Tylenol.
Now you can't trust Tylenol.

910
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:02,840
So they got to do something.
Yeah, Yeah.

911
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,200
We are not we're not buying it
anymore.

912
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,320
So I'm sure all of their like
their numbers went down

913
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,160
drastically, but.
By 83, Tylenol had recovered

914
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,960
their name.
Interesting.

915
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,360
They're thinking, OK, there's no
way people can contaminate their

916
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,080
products again.
They've got 15 layers of

917
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,400
security on this shit.
Boogeyman's in jail like all is

918
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,440
right in the world.
Yes, things are good.

919
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,400
It's now February 8th of 1986.
This is four years later, a 23

920
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,520
year old woman by the name of
Diane who lives in Yonkers, NY.

921
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,080
She dies from taking an extra
strength Tylenol doused with

922
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,800
cyanide shut.
Up I have a couple questions.

923
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,760
First question, how old is the
bottle?

924
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,480
New.
It's brand new, so it has all of

925
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:52,560
the Yep.
But keep in mind it's got all

926
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,080
the new packages, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

927
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,400
It's like wrapped like it has
like a child proof everything,

928
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,040
all the shit.
It's not just like a something

929
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,240
you can like unwrap and like
very easily.

930
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:02,960
It's it's all brand new
packaging it would have.

931
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,920
Been new packaging, yes.
Cyanide again?

932
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,440
Yes.
Copycat.

933
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,120
Like, did she poison herself?
Was she poisoned by someone

934
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,400
different?
What the fuck?

935
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,120
J and.
J's response is to claim there's

936
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:18,040
another maniac on the loose now
that the product's triple

937
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,600
quadruple sealed.
Everyone's like, well, that

938
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,280
seems a stretch, yeah.
Yeah, how would have.

939
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,840
You'd have to believe that
someone could get through all of

940
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,760
those layers and then reaffix it
convincingly for that theory to

941
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:34,920
be true.
What?

942
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,960
A time consuming process like I
don't.

943
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,640
Even know how you could do it.
Like like I I used to shrink

944
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,760
wrap like bath bombs and like
those you would.

945
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,840
Have to have the Tylenol branded
plastic yeah to shrink wrap over

946
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,720
that lid a heat.
Gun and like yeah and you'd have

947
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:51,800
to do it to everyone the foil
like you'd have to stick it back

948
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:52,880
in it's.
Not plausible.

949
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,360
It's so.
Much work and weird just for

950
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,280
some woman in Yonkers.
Then they find two more bottles

951
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,360
of Tylenol found in a Woolworths
store.

952
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,080
Because now they're starting to
investigate and look through and

953
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,360
try to be proactive.
Not.

954
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,640
Again, they.
Found two more bottles that had

955
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,280
five capsules in each of them
with cyanide.

956
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,560
Is it towards the top again?
Yeah.

957
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Uh oh.
So investigators go back to the

958
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,120
manufacturing.
Where was the Woolworths at in?

959
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,000
Bronxville.
So still in New York, Yes.

960
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,640
OK.
Similar area, so they.

961
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,400
Go back to the manufacturing
plant again because they're not

962
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,880
ready to buy this whole nother
maniac theory, right?

963
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,360
Right.
And typically bottles have like

964
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,520
lot sizes and like information.
Yes, right, right, right, right.

965
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,280
So, and that's the other thing.
There was 2 manufacturing

966
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:40,720
plants.
There's one in Pennsylvania and

967
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,040
there's one in Texas that
manufacture Tylenol, but this

968
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,520
particular lot was from
Pennsylvania.

969
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,280
They can't find a single
suspect.

970
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,440
They're like searching, they
cannot figure this out.

971
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,200
And so now they're going, hey,
well, now the 1982 theory seems

972
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,160
a little more SUS.
Right, because it's.

973
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,200
Happening again with all these
measures was that were we

974
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,680
completely off base in 1982?
Yeah.

975
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,440
So if we jump back to September
28th, which is a day before

976
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,720
people started dialing dying
from Tylenol in 82, there's two

977
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:20,440
deputies on shift and they're
about, it's about 2:30 in the

978
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,560
morning and they go to this
Howard Johnson's.

979
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:26,760
It's just West of Chicago.
And on the ground, one of the

980
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,320
officers sees a bunch of Tylenol
pills that had been opened and

981
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,400
there's powder like everywhere.
And these two great big boxes

982
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,040
that say Tylenol on them.
And he scoops them up off the

983
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,040
ground going, what the fuck?
What the fuck is this?

984
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,240
He shows his partner he's like,
look at this.

985
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,960
And his partner goes, oh, that's
probably just some dumb drug

986
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,640
deal that's gone wrong.
Just forget about it.

987
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,240
It's Tylenol.
Bro yeah.

988
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,280
Well, this is before the
murders, yeah.

989
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:55,960
So.
He throws it back down on the

990
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,320
ground.
They go into Howard Johnson's.

991
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,280
He start, he's orders food,
sure.

992
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,320
And his hand starts to swell and
he starts not feeling well.

993
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:11,160
And pretty soon his arm starts
to not feel good and be swell

994
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,120
up.
And so they go to the hospital.

995
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:20,800
Lab tests are done.
Yeah, it's reported there was no

996
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,840
cyanide found.
What?

997
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,520
OK fuck I have questions.
First question, how is cyanide

998
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,120
metabolized?
If you pick it up, does it?

999
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,360
Like can it be seeped through
your skin?

1000
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,080
Yes, can.
Will it be you?

1001
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:35,360
Can't touch it you can't touch
it.

1002
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,760
You.
Can't touch it all and it's

1003
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,840
traceable if it has like dermal
contact.

1004
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,560
Well, that's the other thing.
His partner was getting sick.

1005
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,000
So like there was transference.
They assumed there was some sort

1006
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,280
of transference.
Yes, of course.

1007
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:50,360
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah.

1008
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,360
You would think like whether
whether it was transference from

1009
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,280
like, you know, breathing it in
or maybe they shook hands or

1010
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,400
like, yeah, like they touched
the same thing.

1011
00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:59,720
And yes, exactly.
Yeah.

1012
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:01,160
It was like residue, but like,
right.

1013
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:01,960
Residue.
Yes.

1014
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,200
What the fuck?
So those capsules were supposed

1015
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,440
to be sent, apparently to the
Illinois State crime lab for

1016
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,680
examination.
But somebody else counter

1017
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,960
mandated that order and
redirected them to the Chicago

1018
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,320
Health Department facility.
Like there was this whole like

1019
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:23,160
confusion about.
Who's the best like department

1020
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:24,800
to test it or something or
there?

1021
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,080
Was this whole miscommunication
about where the the pills went,

1022
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,640
what the results were, who did
it?

1023
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,920
Like there was this whole like
weirdness.

1024
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,920
There's like a weird a weird
thing.

1025
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,200
Whether it's like incompetence.
Or or something else?

1026
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,040
Something weird happened, Yeah.
There, it's not making sense.

1027
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,080
To this day, they still don't
know why those pills were where

1028
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,240
they were and who put them.
Like that whole event.

1029
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,640
Yeah, they have no idea what
that's about, but they're

1030
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,240
convinced it has to be somehow
related.

1031
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,880
Yeah.
I mean, it certainly seems like

1032
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,600
that, especially if you're like
looking back and you're like and

1033
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:08,200
two.
Cases like we're talking about

1034
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,360
two cases, yeah.
Yeah, it's weird.

1035
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:13,520
It's totally weird.
Freaking.

1036
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,120
Weird.
OK, so the daughter of one of

1037
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,640
the victims named Michelle
Rosen, she starts digging around

1038
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,880
2000.
Now remember, she was young at

1039
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,960
the time that this happened, in
early 80s nineteen. 82 now.

1040
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,640
In the 2000s, right.
So she's like what, a 20

1041
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,640
something?
So very Long story short, it

1042
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,800
turns out that her mother, one
of the victims, she actually had

1043
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,520
a regular because this is her
daughter's investigating it.

1044
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,720
She actually had a regular
strength Tylenol.

1045
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,400
I remember this was all extra
strength.

1046
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,600
Yeah.
Her mom had a regular strength

1047
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,960
Tylenol bottle and those pills
are grey and white.

1048
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,040
Not.
Red and white not.

1049
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:55,640
Red and white, but in that
bottle were six extra strength

1050
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:01,200
Tylenol capsules. 4 of them had
cyanide, 2 of them did not.

1051
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,600
Now where it gets weird is her
mom had just gotten out of the

1052
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:10,760
hospital having her sure, and
they gave her a unit dose

1053
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,480
packaging of Tylenol, which is
generally those little blister

1054
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:14,840
packs, right?
Exactly the.

1055
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,440
Theory is that she probably got
those extra strength Tylenol

1056
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,320
blister packs, put them in her
bottle because so she had all

1057
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:22,600
her Tylenol together.
Oh.

1058
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,120
Yeah, she didn't.
She didn't think of like putting

1059
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,600
the conserving the like extra
strength.

1060
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:28,720
From the.
Regular Yeah, put.

1061
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:30,760
Them all together I don't.
Have an extra strength bottle

1062
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:31,760
that's.
The theory?

1063
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,720
Well if that is true then the
fucking cyanide pills came from

1064
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:40,960
the hospital.
OK, which angels of death?

1065
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:42,520
Angels of death.
OK.

1066
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:46,520
Maybe, maybe nurses if you were
going to, but wouldn't you want

1067
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,200
to direct?
If you're an Angel of death?

1068
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,720
You want to be specific.
You don't want some random

1069
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:55,040
person.
You want to target the people

1070
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:58,280
who need, in your opinion, need
to move on.

1071
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,080
Yeah.
I mean, if you give them the

1072
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,800
Tylenol, if you hand them the
Tylenol packets, yeah, you could

1073
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,120
still do that, you know.
I guess, I guess if you're a

1074
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:07,720
nurse and you wouldn't know
which ones were worried.

1075
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:09,240
Yeah, I suppose.
Or you're like I.

1076
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,920
Just don't like this person or
hey she just like you know, gave

1077
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,360
birth.
I'm fucking either jealous or I

1078
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,160
just want to kill her.
Maybe it's it's control?

1079
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,360
So let's bounce back to October
11th, 82, for a minute, which is

1080
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:28,000
12 days after the Chicago the
big event, right?

1081
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,560
Yeah.
So it turns out the FBI had

1082
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,400
another suspect.
His name was Roger Arnold.

1083
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,560
So this guy owns a bar.
The Sorry, a guy that owns a bar

1084
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:43,520
calls the FBI and says there's
this guy who has been saying he

1085
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,240
keeps cyanide in his house and
he talks about how he wants to

1086
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:50,840
poison people and so the FBI
arrests him if you.

1087
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:52,080
See something, say something
and.

1088
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,480
They did exactly, and they find
out he in fact worked in a

1089
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,920
warehouse in one of the drug
stores that sold a bottle of the

1090
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,240
Tylenol that had the cyanide in
it.

1091
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,920
OK.
So when they search his home,

1092
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,800
they find a book actually about
how to poison someone.

1093
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:09,040
Why?
Do I Why does everyone have

1094
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:10,000
these fucking books?
Books.

1095
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,320
About how to poison, like, I
don't even think that's a thing

1096
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,640
I don't have.
They find an amateur chemistry

1097
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,800
stuff, unregistered guns and a
one way ticket to Thailand for

1098
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:23,160
two weeks in the future.
Suspicious SUS.

1099
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,720
Yeah, they go and charge him
with weapons violations because

1100
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:28,080
that's all they have at this
point, Yeah.

1101
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:29,800
They need to hold him somehow.
He too.

1102
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,960
Claims he's innocent.
Is he read his?

1103
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,680
Miranda on the yes oh thank God
gets out on bail.

1104
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:42,000
He's so pissed at the bar owner
for reporting him he goes and

1105
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,480
shoots him shut.
The fuck up.

1106
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,240
But the problem is he didn't
shoot.

1107
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:47,920
He shot the wrong person.
He shot some innocent person.

1108
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,560
He didn't even get the bar
owner.

1109
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,640
Of course he did.
He kills some random innocent

1110
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,520
person.
Oh, he killed the person killed

1111
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,720
him.
Oh, what a piece.

1112
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,040
Telling you this story is going
all over the.

1113
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:58,360
Place.
I know.

1114
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,560
Seriously wait to get to
Thailand like what the fuck Oh

1115
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:07,400
my God.
So in 2008, this Robert guy, he

1116
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,000
actually dies, but the Chicago
police still thinks he to this

1117
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,520
day still thinks he was a he was
the prime suspect.

1118
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,480
So Michelle Rosen, the daughter
of the victim we talked about

1119
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,240
before, she's getting more and
more convinced that this whole

1120
00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:21,520
thing is a cover up.
The more she investigate, the

1121
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,080
more she thinks it's a cover up.
She doesn't even thinks it's

1122
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,680
Jim.
She didn't even think it's, she

1123
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:31,040
doesn't even think it's Jim and
J&J will do anything in the

1124
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,680
world.
As you had mentioned at the

1125
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:34,880
beginning of this show, a
corporation will do anything

1126
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,320
they possibly can to protect the
most valuable thing that's

1127
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,280
keeping them in business.
They'll do whatever it takes.

1128
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:41,640
Money.
It's about money.

1129
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,120
They want money.
It doesn't it doesn't matter

1130
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,600
what the fuck is happening,
right?

1131
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,400
They don't care.
They like profits over people.

1132
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,360
That's the that's the saying and
so.

1133
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:56,120
J&J is has continuously said
there is no cyanide in our

1134
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,960
facility.
We do it just that's not a

1135
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,640
thing.
Like stop saying it's us.

1136
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,400
There is no cyanide in our
built.

1137
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,520
We like, we make.
We fucking make Tylenol.

1138
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,520
Right, girl, there's nothing
within Tylenol that's like an

1139
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,120
ingredient for the.
Cyanide.

1140
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,320
Yeah.
So they, they're continuing to

1141
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:15,400
investigate.
J&J is going on TV saying it's

1142
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:17,480
impossible for this to occur at
the plant.

1143
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,800
Impossible.
We just make, we just make baby

1144
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,480
wash.
Turns out that was a flat out

1145
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,400
fucking lie.
OK, this is making sense.

1146
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:33,520
Chicago Metal Exam Medical
Examiner asks 2 of the

1147
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,320
representatives at the McNeil
Laboratories if there's anywhere

1148
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,240
in the vicinity of where Tylenol
is manufactured.

1149
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:44,560
Does cyanide exist?
And they said yes, yeah.

1150
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,480
It's 20 feet away.
Are you fucking kidding me?

1151
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,760
Turns.
Out that they end up finding

1152
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,800
potassium cyanide about 500 feet
from about where Tylenol

1153
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,760
ingredients are brought
together.

1154
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:03,160
Apparently cyanide is used to
test the Tylenol for lead.

1155
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:06,160
That's the that's why they have
the cyanide.

1156
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:08,640
But they fucking lied.
They totally lied.

1157
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,280
Of course they would.
Of course course they would.

1158
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,720
I mean, like at first I was
like, Oh my, like when I, when I

1159
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:16,880
was like telling you I'm like,
would this ever happened today?

1160
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,120
Like no, I'm like, exactly.
There's no way it would happen.

1161
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,200
Like no way.
They'd like shut everything

1162
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:23,680
down.
Oh, total recall.

1163
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,400
Like they're totally recalling
everything.

1164
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:27,760
Get like, we will refund you
whatever.

1165
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,600
Like this would not happen
today.

1166
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,400
It didn't happen then either.
It didn't happen then either.

1167
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,840
So you're telling me that
Tylenol could have very well

1168
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,920
fucking poisoned people?
Guess what I have in my in my

1169
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,800
pantry or in my like, medicine
cabinet?

1170
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,720
Acetaminophen, bitch.
I have the generic version.

1171
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,520
I don't have but you have.
To buy the taps, the capsules,

1172
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,320
not the, not the caplet like you
have to buy the pills.

1173
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,920
The pills, though, not the.
Capsules.

1174
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,840
The gelatin capsules, yes.
Jay and Jay says no, the

1175
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,840
sunlight's locked up like it's
impossible to get.

1176
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,760
It's logged up.
It's impossum on inhuming

1177
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,480
because it's locked up.
Well bitch, that is the dumbest

1178
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,720
excuse you could possibly say.
Yeah, no.

1179
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,400
No, we have a behind locking
key, so.

1180
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,360
Nobody can open the fucking
lock.

1181
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,640
You are changing.
You're changing the whole topic

1182
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,960
of discussion here, right?
We sat.

1183
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,120
Here and asked you.
Yeah, whether or not you had

1184
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,320
cyanide.
You confirmed.

1185
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,440
No, there's no way.
We.

1186
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,320
Would never do that.
There's no way.

1187
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:28,960
Now you're like, no, no, it's
behind the locking key.

1188
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,400
It's like, OK, you're a fucking
liar.

1189
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:32,640
Well.
It gets worse because they go

1190
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,600
sides.
We always test for cyanide in

1191
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,160
our manufacturing so there's no
way it could have been in our

1192
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,160
pills.
And they're like, why are you

1193
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:48,240
fucking testing for cyanide?
Clearly this was a problem.

1194
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,000
Or you knew it could have been,
yes.

1195
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,640
Yeah, yeah, you're aware of it.
And you never said this.

1196
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:56,960
Yeah, you.
Never thought to mention it.

1197
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,720
It's like, it's like the
cheating boyfriend who's like,

1198
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,280
no, no, we're we're just
friends.

1199
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,440
Like I just, I just like really
we just have like this like

1200
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,480
chemistry or whatever, Like
we're just really good friends.

1201
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,480
And you're like, bitch, I know
something's going on.

1202
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,680
OK, Tylenol.
OK, Johnson and Johnson, we see

1203
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,960
you so.
They're clearly very good at

1204
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,520
controlling the narrative.
Of course they have PR

1205
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:22,600
companies, they have media, they
they have 1,000,000 billions of

1206
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,240
dollars to manipulate this
information.

1207
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,720
What are 5 fucking people or 12
people who die?

1208
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,400
Everyone still believes that
someone was able to open the

1209
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:35,120
newly packaged bottles in a way
that was undetectable.

1210
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,360
No one is believing that it
could happen at the

1211
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,480
manufacturing.
Johnson and Johnson had to for

1212
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:46,520
their theory.
This contamination would have

1213
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,080
meant that it could have gone
everywhere, right?

1214
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,160
If it was contaminated, then
everything would be

1215
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:52,720
contaminated.
Yeah, it would be everywhere,

1216
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,560
yes, yes, yes.
So they needed the contamination

1217
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,680
to be in a very, they needed
that narrative, right?

1218
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,400
That was the narrative that they
needed to support, right?

1219
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,360
The, the ish.
So when J&J did the recall, they

1220
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,800
themselves and themselves alone
are the ones that did all the

1221
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,120
testing.
Of the stuff that came back

1222
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,360
found not, they say they found
nothing.

1223
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,720
Ask about that and.
Right, they, they found nothing

1224
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,520
and they asked what are you
doing with this stuff Oh, we've,

1225
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,960
we're in the progress of
incinerating all 22 million

1226
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,520
bottles right now of.
Course you are.

1227
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,920
Of course you are.
OK, law enforcement.

1228
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:27,800
OK, FBI.
Where the hell?

1229
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,800
OK, Ronald Reagan?
Where the hell were you testing

1230
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,800
this independently?
Yeah, that's right.

1231
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:37,680
I forgot they probably pay your
fucking ass speaking.

1232
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,800
Of the President for on drugs
Burke CEO of Johnson and Johnson

1233
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,440
gets the Presidential Medal of
Freedom, which is the highest

1234
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:52,320
honor in for a civilian.
Reagan says that was just good

1235
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,760
business, describing Burke as
someone who's lived up to the

1236
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,720
highest ideal corporate
responsibility and grace under

1237
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,160
fire.
Like, well done.

1238
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:01,680
Good job.
Good job.

1239
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,520
Like what?
It's actually was reported that

1240
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,800
Burke ran that company very
actually closed and very

1241
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:10,840
secretive.
Like people said that that's

1242
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,400
actually how he ran the
business.

1243
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,520
Yeah.
And J&J was literally crossed

1244
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,360
off the suspect list from the
very beginning.

1245
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,480
No, these are our corporate
overlords.

1246
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,240
They would never do anything.
Never do that.

1247
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,800
Never do that.
In 1995, James Lewis is finally

1248
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,480
released from prison.
Jim, Right.

1249
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,080
He goes to Massachusetts with
his lie.

1250
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,080
Why?
Goes quiet.

1251
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:39,160
Nobody hears from him.
By 2004 E Cambridge, a woman is

1252
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:43,480
reported missing by her dad.
He goes, finds his daughter,

1253
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,920
takes her to the hospital,
determines she was raped.

1254
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,480
She says the neighbor sprayed
her in the face, dragged her to

1255
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,960
his apartment, put something in
her mouth, made her kind of go

1256
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,040
in and out of consciousness.
She remembers being assaulted

1257
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,520
during all of this.
And oh, by the way, my neighbor

1258
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,880
is Jim Lewis.
He's taken into custody, charged

1259
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,880
with sexual assault, drugging,
like 100 other things.

1260
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,840
None of his DNA was found on
her.

1261
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,800
Three years go by before the
actual start of this trial.

1262
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,080
The first day of trial, she
says, I don't want to do this.

1263
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,840
I'm not going to do it.
Prosecution had to drop the

1264
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:23,000
case.
So she lied or or she's.

1265
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,680
So scared and traumatized
because she can't do it.

1266
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,240
That's that's exactly what I was
saying.

1267
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,360
I'm just thinking of corporate
grade.

1268
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:31,760
But like 100% she could have
been so traumatized.

1269
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,840
She's like, I cannot, I can't.
Go through this again, It's

1270
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,480
three years later.
She can't do it again.

1271
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,080
Yeah.
I don't want to relive it like

1272
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:40,480
I've already gotten to a point
where I can like be halfway

1273
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,960
normal.
So at this point, after he's out

1274
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,680
of prison, Jailhouse informed.
This is where it gets really.

1275
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:50,960
Good.
Oh my God.

1276
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,400
OK.
This is where it gets.

1277
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,760
This is where the pavement hits
the road, ladies and gentlemen.

1278
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,480
That's why you've been sitting
here for an hour and 10 minutes.

1279
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,240
This is why.
This is why jailhouse informant

1280
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:04,680
says he has something to say.
He says that Jim was put into a

1281
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,520
cell with him during that last
three years and says James, Jim

1282
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,160
was bragging about the only
thing he ever got caught doing

1283
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,880
was the extortion.
And so he asked, did you commit

1284
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,120
the Tylenol murders?
Yeah.

1285
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,680
And Jim says, well, if I got
away with it, what do you think

1286
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:26,480
That was his response.
And he says he, the informant

1287
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,120
says Jim said he did it out of
revenge for his daughter's

1288
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,000
death.
Remember when she died five

1289
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,000
years from that heart?
Attack.

1290
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:35,360
Yes, yes, yes.
Well.

1291
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,520
When she was about two, they put
a patch on her heart to plug

1292
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:42,960
that hole.
That patch failed.

1293
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:44,840
It was made by Johnson and
Johnson.

1294
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,440
So the format informant goes on
to say that Jim was saying that

1295
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:50,720
the only reason he was able to
get away with all this because

1296
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,240
the cops are too stupid to put
the whole case together, which

1297
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,160
sounds like a a criminal would
say something like a criminal

1298
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:58,400
would say, yeah, of course.
Jim says this is just an

1299
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,320
informant trying to get.
On the good.

1300
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,640
The informant says never offered
anything, never asked for

1301
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,320
anything, never got anything.
It's it's strictly my own

1302
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,880
conscience that's coming forward
2. 1006, FBI is going over the

1303
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,040
time case again like it's a cold
case.

1304
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:14,920
Yeah.
Roy Lane at the FBI was in

1305
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,400
charge of interviewing, got to a
point in this interview and I

1306
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,160
actually, you can see this
interview online.

1307
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,360
They're in a hotel room.
Lane goes down this effort to

1308
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,560
kind of talk to him about the
timeline of the ransom letter.

1309
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,320
Lewis says he spent three days
working on this letter to

1310
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,880
Johnson and Johnson and mailed
it on October 1st.

1311
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,800
Now, if you track this whole
thing, it means that he wrote

1312
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,440
the letter before the story
broke.

1313
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,080
If you go by, if he mailed it on
October 1st, has working on it

1314
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:44,800
for three days, that means he
mailed, he did it, started

1315
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:46,960
writing it before all of this
happened.

1316
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,000
Yeah.
Before everyone knew about it.

1317
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:57,080
You can see his he and he goes,
yeah, I can see the conundrum

1318
01:04:57,080 --> 01:04:59,240
here.
OK, well, I must not have been

1319
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:01,720
working on it for three days.
Maybe it felt like I was working

1320
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:06,840
on it for three days.
But they're like, in their mind,

1321
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,400
they're like, see, we fucking
got you.

1322
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,720
We knew it, so they.
They with this, they have enough

1323
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:13,480
probable cause to search his
apartment.

1324
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:15,280
What do they find in his
apartment?

1325
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:20,160
Fucking nothing.
Absolutely nothing that can

1326
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:24,080
connect him to any of this stuff
other than that letter.

1327
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,160
There is not not a single piece
of evidence that ties into it.

1328
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,400
Now in 2009 the FBI attained
ADNA sample from him.

1329
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,040
Now remember in 82 there was no
DNA.

1330
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:36,120
Yeah, yeah.
They knew that there was like

1331
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,000
some kind of science behind it,
but it was not right.

1332
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:41,120
So they had, they had the
evidence and they and they had

1333
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:42,480
partial DNA.
Yeah.

1334
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,360
And so.
They knew the technology would

1335
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,960
be happening and they'd be able
to potentially use it.

1336
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:52,320
Exactly.
The FBI isn't saying whether or

1337
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:56,440
not that matches.
Now in my mind, I'm like, it

1338
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,800
didn't fucking match.
Because if it matched, you would

1339
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,400
say it matched, right?
If it exonerates him, you're not

1340
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,880
going to say that because you're
like a dog with a bone.

1341
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:07,520
You want him, yes.
You want?

1342
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:08,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's your guy.

1343
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:10,400
He's your.
Guy So if it's something

1344
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,200
exonerates him, you're not going
to make a big deal out.

1345
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:16,160
Of it fucking massive this was
massive it totally changed the

1346
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,520
way that like medications even
sold but but also here's another

1347
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,760
thing what if the DNA is
inconclusive?

1348
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:26,200
What if they don't have enough
of a DNA sample to even and make

1349
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:27,800
it that?
Could be a 2, but we'll say it

1350
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:30,440
say it.
Well, well, but here's another

1351
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:32,160
thing.
What if they're still waiting

1352
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,880
for like the technology to get
further so they wouldn't need as

1353
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,480
much as a sample maybe or they
could take a part I'll.

1354
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:39,840
Give you that, I'll give you
that.

1355
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,720
Thanks.
You're welcome.

1356
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,040
So 42 years later, this Michelle
Rosa, she's still investigating.

1357
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,440
We're now 42.
Later, she's a.

1358
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:50,760
Dog with a fucking bum.
She never got to know her, but.

1359
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,280
She's sure it's not Jim.
She's sure so it's not.

1360
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:55,880
And she probably.
Knows every detail to this

1361
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,600
fucking case.
But FBI won't release some doc.

1362
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:00,240
There's some documents they
won't release that are

1363
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:01,640
interviews with Johnson and
Johnson.

1364
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:02,800
They won't release them, of
course.

1365
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,720
They won't because they're
bought and paid for by Johnson

1366
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:06,360
and Johnson.
They say it's because it's an

1367
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,880
open case.
I mean, like, here's the thing.

1368
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:12,800
Can that be the case?
Yeah.

1369
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,880
Couldn't there be like some
honest people on this case, like

1370
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:17,120
who are agents?
Sure.

1371
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,800
But at the end of the day, those
people have money and money

1372
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,560
talks and like things are hidden
for big companies all the

1373
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,680
fucking time thing.
I'll leave you with is Johnson

1374
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,200
and Johnson did settle with the
families of the seven victims.

1375
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,760
They sued Johnson and Johnson,
saying that Johnson and Johnson

1376
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,000
knew the bottles were
susceptible to tampering.

1377
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,760
I guess this was the lawsuit.
What they settled with.

1378
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:43,600
The amount is undisclosed, but
obviously Johnson and Johnson

1379
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,640
never claimed any.
Wrongdoing.

1380
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,200
Wrongdoing or you know.
Yeah.

1381
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,120
So it's probably like a.
Culpability something.

1382
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:50,040
Right.
Yeah, they can't.

1383
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,040
They can't sell that and.
It was shortly, it's like a

1384
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:53,880
year.
It was like 3 years after this

1385
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,160
event.
So like mid 80s is when this

1386
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:00,120
lawsuit was settled, but Johnson
and Johnson obviously doesn't

1387
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,320
speak to it to this day.
FBI is not releasing any of the

1388
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:04,040
documents.
So when she's trying to

1389
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,200
investigate that, I mean she
can't get any other information

1390
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,360
about Johnson and Johnson.
So you keep ping ponging or I

1391
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,080
kept ping pong and researching
this, going back and forth.

1392
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:14,880
Oh, it's gotta be a fucking jam.
And then you're like, OK, but

1393
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,840
maybe it's not.
And then wait the with the lie

1394
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:20,520
about the cyanide, OK, maybe
they lied because it looked

1395
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,120
suspicious and they didn't want
the focus on them.

1396
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,359
But then they should have just
said it in the first place.

1397
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:29,600
Like you know what I mean?
100% there's so many like it's

1398
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,720
almost you're on a wild goose
chase.

1399
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,080
Wild goose chasing your tail
you're.

1400
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,600
Chasing your tail.
There's so many like erroneous,

1401
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,680
like there's so much erroneous
information that you're like,

1402
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,920
could this connect?
Yes, but it also feels like you

1403
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:46,359
are fucking reading red.
Like there's like strings coming

1404
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:49,200
from from things that are
seemingly unimportant.

1405
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,439
So what is like is her theory.
The daughter's theory is her

1406
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,560
theory.
Like her best case scenario,

1407
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,479
does she think it's Johnson and
Johnson she.

1408
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:01,640
Does think it can it's it they
don't she doesn't know why or

1409
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,680
who or how, but she doesn't she
thinks it happened in

1410
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:09,000
manufacturing.
I don't think that honestly like

1411
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,399
I'm like how could you put in
manufacturing?

1412
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,040
I guess, I guess if you had a
specific run and you put them in

1413
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,439
specific bottles so that
they'll, that box was very, the

1414
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,880
bottles that were contaminated
were in a specific box, that box

1415
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,760
went to a store I guess, I guess
that's feasible.

1416
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:30,399
Yeah, yeah, you can.
But it was several stores in

1417
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:32,560
Chicago.
I guess a run a batch would be

1418
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,160
in a.
Region, yeah.

1419
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,479
So you would think that that
would be like, yeah, a smaller

1420
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,640
region that it would be.
I guess maybe that's plausible,

1421
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,040
but.
Also, like, if that's the case

1422
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,920
and it was someone like
intentionally tampering with

1423
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:49,240
these pills, you know, they
could very well still work for

1424
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:51,560
they could still be alive.
They could still work for

1425
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,359
fucking Tylenol.
The thing that's really

1426
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:56,480
interesting to me, one, it sucks
because we can't we can't say

1427
01:09:56,480 --> 01:09:58,840
there are more pills that were
actually affected, but there.

1428
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:02,200
Were remember, because we had
the one event and then a few

1429
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,920
years later had another event,
which is what also leads you to

1430
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,040
go.
It wasn't gym, it would have to

1431
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,280
be manufacturing because of the
whole seal thing, right?

1432
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,320
Right, the whole seal thing.
But I guess, I guess my question

1433
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:13,760
would be was like, why hasn't
it?

1434
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:15,360
Has it not happened?
Before.

1435
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:21,040
Yeah, it was a very isolated.
It was like those few cases by

1436
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:23,800
few, I mean, you know,
legitimate, like also really sad

1437
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,240
these people died, but like you
had like what, less than 20

1438
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:28,760
people who died from this.
Oh yeah, it.

1439
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:37,800
Was only like, what was it, 7-8?
Incredibly insignificant for the

1440
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,880
amount of models that go, which
is.

1441
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,760
Another reason why you go it had
to be so like if I put it in

1442
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,680
concentrated, yes, If I put it
in manufacturing, it seems like

1443
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,440
it just would have been so much
bigger area.

1444
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,200
Like I said, I don't know how
they manufacture.

1445
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,720
So maybe it was a lot and yadda
yadda yadda.

1446
01:10:55,800 --> 01:11:00,440
But oh God.
It's also like, OK, OK, armchair

1447
01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:03,880
detectives, can you guys find
people who like were living like

1448
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:07,280
citizens who are living in like
the Yonkers or like the Yonkers

1449
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:11,440
area and then also like that
Chicago like area within that

1450
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:15,680
radius, who are the I'm sure
there are tons of people, but

1451
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:16,680
who are the people who are
living?

1452
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,320
Because what if it was just
tampered with somehow?

1453
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,680
Like are they all plastic
bottles that these came through?

1454
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,240
Because you can you can
definitely get into plastic

1455
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:27,720
bottles it.
Was they are.

1456
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,000
It was.
All plastic, yes.

1457
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:33,000
So it's like, what if somebody
punctured with a fucking needle

1458
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,880
or something made like a very
tiny hole or.

1459
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,600
But you couldn't get into a
specific 5 specific capsules

1460
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,440
like that Seems improbable, but.
What if you had like some kind

1461
01:11:43,480 --> 01:11:46,600
of liquid?
No, it was the powder in the

1462
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,040
capsule.
God damn it, I.

1463
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:53,800
Know I know there's something
weird, something weird and plus

1464
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,120
then you get the psychos that
are writing if he didn't do it,

1465
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:57,320
why the fuck did you write that
letter?

1466
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,320
Well, because he was trying to
he, according to the informant,

1467
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:06,320
get back at Johnson and Johnson.
Or was he trying to frame the

1468
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:10,080
the rich guy?
Or I mean like fuck.

1469
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,320
It's so.
Much like it's too much.

1470
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:15,760
Yeah, like a lot of it feels
irrelevant it.

1471
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,120
Does exactly exactly a.
Lot of it start.

1472
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,000
Trying to go on these, like you
said, just chasing your tail.

1473
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:23,760
Yeah.
And so then you get this

1474
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,000
spaghetti bowl of shit.
Yeah.

1475
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:26,920
It means nothing.
Yeah.

1476
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:27,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

1477
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:30,360
It's like you have to like sift
through it and a lot of it feels

1478
01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:32,680
irrelevant.
I think that there's, there has

1479
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:36,920
to be some, there is something
either with manufacturing or

1480
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:41,240
there, there is something there
if it's within the gel caps like

1481
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,920
that's and even in hospitals
like I'm just surprised.

1482
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,480
I was only like 8 or like less
than 10 people.

1483
01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:49,960
That's the thing.
That really bothered me was when

1484
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:53,240
she figured out where she
believes that it where she

1485
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,120
believes that's her theory, that
it came from the hospital, see.

1486
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,440
And that's The thing is like, we
don't know if we don't know for.

1487
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:01,640
Certain.
Because she was a baby right at

1488
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,480
the time and nobody else can
speak to that.

1489
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,720
Yeah, she's just putting pieces
together in her mind.

1490
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,600
Yeah.
So that can't be confirmed.

1491
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,320
Yeah.
And we can't confirm any of this

1492
01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,720
because there was no independent
testing.

1493
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,200
There's nothing that was
independently tested.

1494
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:17,880
We can't say that's.
It too.

1495
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,600
We can't first, like
specifically even say that the

1496
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:23,000
cyanide was in these gel pills,
right?

1497
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:24,920
We can't.
Even say that it wasn't in other

1498
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,200
states, maybe it was and they've
been got it and incinerated it

1499
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,800
before people bought it.
Yes, yeah.

1500
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:33,720
So it could have been, it could
have been more widespread and we

1501
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,400
had no idea possible because the
people who were like in charge

1502
01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:40,120
were also the people who were
trying to hide their fucking

1503
01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:41,760
bullshit.
That's right.

1504
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,760
My God, I know.
It was much.

1505
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,080
It was a lot like, like, Oh my
God.

1506
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:50,040
OK, so does it make you want to
take aspirin?

1507
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:53,360
Honestly, it doesn't bother me.
Like it doesn't scare me.

1508
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:55,560
I don't know Johnson and fuck
Johnson and John.

1509
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:59,840
But I'm with you.
I take a set of like, pill

1510
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:01,200
acetaminophen.
Yeah.

1511
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:02,800
It's not Tylenol, it's not a
cap.

1512
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:04,040
So I'm good.
Yeah.

1513
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,200
Yeah, yeah.
We are not doing capsules over

1514
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,600
here.
Why get fancy when you just have

1515
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,040
a fucking like, just have it
going.

1516
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,200
Get the generic stuff.
Yeah, get it.

1517
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:15,240
Get it from a place that, like,
you know, is maybe not

1518
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:16,760
manufactured by Johnson and
Johnson.

1519
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:18,600
Right.
Get the hard Kirkland pill.

1520
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,560
We we buy from Costco now we
don't go to Target anymore.

1521
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:24,640
God.
Well, thank you for like a

1522
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,240
fascinating story.
Sure.

1523
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:28,320
Yeah, sorry, I went rabbit.
Hole, Oh my God, but.

1524
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,080
It was a rabbit hole indeed.
There's no other way to do it.

1525
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,520
You can't.
You can't do this Short I.

1526
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,000
I couldn't.
I just couldn't because.

1527
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,400
We still don't even have an
answer that's.

1528
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:37,560
The thing?
Yes.

1529
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,200
All right, well, chew on that
and we'll see what happens.

1530
01:14:42,280 --> 01:14:43,600
Yes, get the chewable, not the
tablet.

1531
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,240
They're not gonna do.
Literally chew on that.

1532
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:48,440
Well, thank you.
See ya, See ya.