Sasquatch the Kidnapper?

0:00 Hello bizarre story friends. If you're tuned in now, you are listening to the bizarre AFA place where we talk about the strange, the unusual, the unknown, and all things bizarre AF. I'm Alicia, your host Hostess for today's episode, and as always, we ask that you keep an open mind. Keep a skeptical ear, but keep on listening to those facts as we take you on our newest journey. Sasquatch the kidnapper Hello Kevin, my Co host with the most How are you little camper I'm. Doing good.

1:06 How are you? How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I can't complain. Yeah, I'm pretty happy. We're we're coming up to some summertime activities, right? Makes me happy. And we live in the beautiful state of Colorado, not there's no other place I think better to explore. Outdoors season Four Seasons. Are you much of an explorer? Yeah, I do. Not as much as I would like to do it, but yes, I I do like to explore. What do you what do you like doing here in Colorado? Boy, I just love being in the mountains and I loved, you know, the smell of the woods. And it's so close.

1:47 It's so easy to get to and of course, I'm an avid skier. So, you know, I love this the winter for that reason. But the summer and the and the greenery in Colorado, it's great hiking. I don't like to do big hikes, but, you know, some moderate nice strolls through the forest. Nice strolls? No, no. Best. So you're not backpacking and like, packing all your stuff with you, do you? You have hiking boots? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you much of A camper? No. OK. I've glamped. Glamp. I like clamping, not I won't do it a lot, but clamping I I can handle glamping.

2:29 Is your thing? Yeah. You know, chandeliers in the tent, you know, puffy pillows and candles and grills and electric skillets. Yeah, Yeah. Are you serious? Like a chandelier in a tent. Yeah, Oh my God. You're really not kidding. When you say glamp lamp, you know like 'cause you make a little, have a little generator, solar generator for, you know, you store up the batteries and you have your little lamp, sure. Oh yeah, I thought glamping was like give me a cabin with. No, no, glamping is camping, just at a real high level elevated. Yeah, definitely elevated. OK. OK. So I get your taste like OK.

3:10 You would do that too, I bet. Oh, for sure, I would do it. I, you know what? I always want to say that I am one of those people. I like in my heart of hearts, I want to be a person who can like be off, be rugged and rugged and do the things and like experience nature and like be one with it and, you know, camp it or pack in, pack out all that stuff. But I like running water, yes. I like my sleep, yes. And I've I've notorious. Shower. Hot showers? You know a toilet, huh? Very important. Yes, I have. I've had that's like my #1 issue is just like the toilet and running water situation and I just can't. I'm not gonna sleep. There's no way of sleeping unless I'm in a glamping situation. Right foam mattress.

3:54 Yes, yeah, yeah, a a mattress like one of the last times I went camping, we had an inflatable mattress. Yeah. And it's had a slow leak. Yes. By the time you wake up, you're on the hard, hard ground. Yeah, been there. 3:00 AM I'm I'm awake. I'm freezing like I don't have I I'm very ill prepared. No, because this is not my thing. Yes, cold, cold. It's just it's just not it. It's something I want. Maybe in my older age I'll I'll be less of a Princess, but I don't fucking care. Give me my crown. You. Know wear it with pride. Well, a lot of people here come, they, they travel specifically for camping, right? They'll travel for camping or for skiing or, you know, snowboarding And, and we're so lucky to have national parks right in our backyard.

4:51 Ultimately, right? I'm actually today wearing a Smokey the bear prevents forest fires. Only you can. Yeah, only you can prevent forest fires. A sweater. Because I thought, you know, why not cover some theories that have been going on around national parks? So I don't know if you're aware of this. Well, one, I'll just start off with talking about National Park systems. So have you been to any national parks, Kevin? Yeah, yeah. OK. Which like which ones have you been? To well, so the Rocky, there's been a few national, I don't know the names, but in Colorado there are several. You go up to Estes Park and there is entrances to Rocky Mountain, which if if anyone has never gone up there, there's a road, I think it's the tallest paved Rd. in the world or the United States or whatever.

5:51 But you actually like when you start driving up there, it looks like you're on the moon because you're way above the tree line and then you come back down. But it is the most gorgeous part. It's like part of the world. It's like gorgeous. But anyway, so I've I've done that National Park. There was one big in California, Big Sur over there. Yellowstone. Yellowstone's in. Wyoming. Oh yeah. What's the one that's down South in Yosemite? Yosemite. Yeah, yeah. So a few, a few there, yeah. Yeah, I've been to some. I'm actually going to be going next weekend to Yellowstone for the very first time.

6:32 Have you been to Yellowstone? No. I haven't either. I'm really excited. I think it's going to be great. It's so it's like an 8 hour drive from us, something like that in Denver. But the United States actually has 63 national parks. And the national parks are really designated areas that are protected by, you know, the United States. And it's operated by the National Park Service, which is an agency of the Department of Labor. So the the whole idea behind these national parks, which we're so lucky in the United States that we have a lot of these a lot of countries don't. And there have been, you know, people who have built over beautiful, diverse ecosystems.

7:14 But the idea is, you know, you have these areas of natural beauty and diverse ecosystems that we're trying to save. And so you can't, there are a lot of rules around recreation. Even if you're going camping, there are a lot of rules around it. And it's just really to keep the beauty of the parks and, and what they say it's, it's really because of some outstanding scenic feature or national natural phenomena. So Yellowstone, they have old faithful like the geysers and stuff. So as far as the national parks go, they don't allow hunting. So the ecosystems are, you know, protected.

7:59 They have specific activities that are limited. So you can't just like bring your four Wheeler and like ruin, you know, the terrain. The national monuments though, which are different, are protected for a historic or archaeological significance. So multiple national parks within our within our country. The first one was actually Yellowstone. So Yellowstone is what created it all, and it was signed into law by Ulysses S Grant, the president and 1872 to be the very first National Park.

8:40 No building, no, no commercial anything. So beautiful. We have to just save these areas. So all over the country we have these and over 30 states have national parks. Lots of people go to and join them. You know, even during the pandemic, I don't know if you remember, there was like a huge issue because people just wanted to get out of their houses. Yes, millions of people, like we're talking millions over what they normally would have at these national parks. We're coming to go camping or, you know, hike and explore the natural beauty around them because you couldn't travel anywhere. Yeah, and you couldn't be in. You couldn't be inside.

9:22 I mean, you could be inside your own house, but nowhere else. So what was your only option? Go outside into the great outdoors. The the great outdoors, yeah. So people started becoming hikers and stuff. And one thing that I've always like, you know, wondered about is how many people just are lost on hikes, right? Like either, you know, they go on a hike, they don't really know what the fuck they're doing. They you know it's a huge problem. I've done that. You have. Frightening. How long were you missing for? Well, fortunately I was with three other people, so it was four of us. We went on this hike. We got lost and fortunately we had some cheese and a bottle of wine, so we were we were OK, but it, I don't know, a couple hours. How did you guys find your way back? We just walked, kept walking down the mountain, tried to find valleys and we're like, oh, eventually we've got to run into a road somewhere.

10:20 And then we did. And then we just followed the road. So it wasn't like wasn't too bad, but that feeling of being lost is is uncomfortable. So uncomfortable, yes, you're trying to not lose your shit, right? At least you had other people with you. Exactly, which is why it's important. If you're going to go do these things, do them with other people. Yes, yeah. Or at least, you know, have some kind of an idea of what the fuck you're doing. Or have some sort of a device or something where if people can find you, know where you are like technology is is. Good. I mean, but a lot of the, the problem now is a lot of these, a lot of these national parks don't have cell phone coverage or service, right, right.

11:03 So you don't, I mean, you have satellites and stuff like that makes it easier, but you know, it's, they're kind of like dead zones. Yeah, true. Technology is becoming better, and these dead zones aren't are fewer and far between. But. Exist. They exist like what are you going to do? You're going to have cell phone service at a, you know, BFE, you know, in Yellowstone, No, like no one's there, right? It's a massive park. But at, so it's 2021, we're talking about how many people would go and visit the national parks. More than 92,000,000 visitors were in, were recorded as being there. It's it's well, well over that, but they recorded about 92,000,000 so.

11:45 The people being reported as lost probably drove went up dramatically. Yeah. I mean, overall, people have have become like you have these disappearances in these National Park systems and we're going to talk about a couple today, but there's some really strange coincidences that occur with these missing people. And a lot of people end up trying to what make sense of it, piece together the information and try to see what the heck is going on here. So we'll talk about first the disappearance of Dennis Martin. So Dennis Martin was a small boy. He was born in in June of 1962 and he had disappeared on in June of 1969.

12:41 So seven years old, 66 almost seven years old. And this was in the Great Smoky Mountains, which is a National Park in Tennessee. So he it was actually one of the biggest search efforts in the parks history. Over 1400 searchers at over 56 square miles. We're searching for this kid. That's needle in a haystack. Total needle in a haystack and there are only so many search methods that you can have. But what ended up happening was Dennis and his family were there from Knoxville, but they're visiting the Great Smoky Mountains with his father, grandfather, older brother for Father's Day weekend.

13:24 And it was actually like camping in this area was a tradition for this family around that time for Father's Day. And so they would hike from a place called Katie's Cove to Russell Field, and then they would camp overnight. This has happened multiple times, multiple years with this kid because it was a yearly thing. The following day, they would hike to Spence Field, which is near the Appalachian Trail, where they would spend the night. They would spend the night there. So he actually disappeared on June 14th at 4:30 while they were planning on surprising adults with his brother and some other children.

14:05 There was there was a separate family who was going camping with them. He was last seen by his father. His father's like, you know, organizing stuff in the campsite, you know, probably getting together food, making sure they have enough, making sure that the tent is properly set up. Do we have our water? Is the lots to do? Lots to do. Another reason I don't like camping. Exactly. Yeah, you have to stoke the fire, make sure we have enough firewood, make sure it's protected. All of your trash is in an area. So he's in the area right next to his father, his father's, you know, just messing around with the campsite and he sees the son right behind some, some bushes. And he he's hiding, you know, he's trying to play hide and seek or like had to surprise these, these adults. So he crouches behind Dennis, crouches behind a Bush. And his dad didn't see him for about another 5 minutes. And when all the other kids came back and all the adults came, he realized that his son was not accounted for. He saw him Crouch behind a Bush.

15:14 And then he seemed to disappear. His daughter. His dad's freaked out, rightfully so, right? What the hell happened to my kid? Where is he? Is he still trying to hide? All these things are going through his head. So he runs down the trail for nearly two miles. This guy was a fit dude, right? But also adrenaline. So he's running, trying to find his his child because this is not like his kid. He knows his child knows what what to do. They've done this before. They've been camping before. It's not like him to not respond when he's calling him his name for help. He's continuing to run 2 miles until he's like, sure, There's no way that little Dennis could have gone that far.

15:56 So after several hours of searching the whole camp, the whole campsite, everyone is searching all that the family is they contact the National Park Service Rangers and we've all seen the the Rangers, right? They, they come through. Make sure that you're not, you know, doing shit you shouldn't be doing. Make sure everything's safe. So the area that Martin disappeared is marked with a bunch of slopes and ravines. It's pretty steep, right? So there are tons of animals in because once again, there is a limit on hunting. So you have bears, you have copperhead snakes, you have feral hogs, which feral hogs are. They're mean and they're dangerous. They're really dangerous.

16:46 And there's also Bobcats in the area. So shortly after Martin goes missing, crouches down behind that Bush, it starts to downpour, a huge storm comes in and it dropped actually 3 inches of rain and hours, just a matter of hours. And that caused trails in the area to be washed out. And then the streams in the area that were around those ravines, they started to flood. This is after they can't find him. Dennis. Right after, right after. So within a matter of hours, it starts raining, it starts getting even more, you know, more and more rain falls down.

17:29 Don't you know, everything starts. They're they're still searching, of course, for the child, but three inches of rain drop in in hours. And that's a lot of rain. It's a ton of rain, so washes out all those, those trails and floods, you know, these streams, the temperatures start, you know, going down the night of June 14th and it dropped down to June 14th. I mean, in Tennessee, it's like it's pretty warm. It gets down to 50°F and that's 10°C so it drops down. This is a six year old boy, right? That didn't have, I mean, maybe he was wearing a sweatshirt, but he didn't really have much that he was wearing, right?

18:16 People are looking for him, right? Everyone's freaked out and you have this storm that comes in. But there are questions that come up. What the hell happened to this kid? You know, we are trying to find him. We can't find him. His dad saw him crouched below, like behind. It was 5 feet away, crouched behind a Bush, trying to hide, to joke around, and he just seemingly disappeared. Like he could have gotten far. Yeah, he couldn't have gotten that far. His dad ran for two miles shouting his name. You would think that he would hear or respond right after.

18:57 It's not like, you know, he was waiting like for two hours before he started looking for him. It was 5 minutes, if that. It was probably shorter than that, right? Like that, he starts freaking the fuck out. So, you know, their search is on and despite the weather and the issues that are happening, they have a separate search going on. We have the Park Rangers, the park National Park Service, Dennis's family and the National Guard and the Green Berets come in 'cause they're like, this is not good. You know, we don't want, we don't want this like bad publicity with, you know, our National Park system. And he's a little boy, a cute little boy. They couldn't find any trace of him. These are Green Berets and the National Guard, like these are people who know, they like, they're hunters who are here. They know how to find like, you know, people's whereabouts. They can track animals just by like, you know, the way the sticks break.

20:01 But this wasn't a flat area. You said he, like in theory, could have fallen down a Cliff, right? He could have fallen down a Cliff, but they weren't even finding any, like, broken branches. They weren't finding a sock. There was no sock. There was nothing. There was no trace of this little boy. No like footprint or, you know, hair or you know, and of course the rain. Washed everything away though. Exactly. The rain was washing. It was starting to to do that. So there was that it was coming in, but there was no no trace even right after he had been found or found to be missing. So because of those heavy rains during the first day search and there was a lot of mist from that rain for over the next few days, it did hurt the search for little Dennis.

20:55 Like I said, up to like 1400 people were involved in this search effort. That's a lot of people. A ton of people and like, and how far can a six year old like really walk? Like even if he is there's, he's not going to be walking like, you know, five mile, like 5 miles away with all of that heavy rain. Maybe he would, but probably not, right? One thing they did say is could have been these 1400 people, all of them trampling through this area probably hurt the search efforts that they did have because maybe some of the evidence got. Walked on or yes, yeah, moved. Yeah. So it would have like obscured some of the clues that they had. So they.

21:40 That's a no win situation. It's a no win. Yeah, they did find some footprints, but they were actually dismissed as being, you know, little Dennis Martins by park officials who said that they actually think that was left, left by a Boy Scout who was helping with the search. Once again, there's so much, so many people there that it's actually hurting, hurting it. So there's this is something that comes up a lot in this search are these footprints. They were automatically discounted because there were there was there were footprints that were an Oxford shoe and a barefoot and the Oxford show was the wait.

22:23 Did you say a barefoot? Barefoot. Oh, like it's in a bear? His his foot is bare. Yeah, Uh huh. Sorry, not a bear, but I should have distinguished that. So Dennis was wearing an Oxford show and they. Oh, but that barefoot, the foot that has no shoe is off because the searchers wouldn't have had a with no shoes on. Yes. So that's a big clue. Yes, it's a huge clue. It was so easily dismissed early on. But like a retired, there's this retired park Ranger, Dwight Mccarter. Mccarter, who really took this case on, was like, what the hell happened to this kid?

23:10 He looks back at that footprint and he's like, that was him. That was definitely this kid. Because none of these Boy Scouts are going to be searching with a barefoot. So you have one footprint that has the Oxford, the other one is Bear, a barefoot. So they did find like some, you know, some traces, but it was so dismissed right by June 22nd. Remember, June 14th is when he goes missing. By June 22nd, 56 square miles had been covered. Yeah, ground had been covered. And more than 1000 searchers continued to look until June 26th when they started saying, well, no trace. We haven't been able to find anything. Chances are he's probably not around, right? Yeah, like a bear got him.

23:58 Or. Yeah, something happened, maybe, but it's still. Mountain Lion. Yeah, Mountain Lion or one of those hogs. It was officially. The search was officially ended on September 14th, 1969, and as of 20/22, it was still the largest search in the history of the Great Smoky Mountains. Sorry, in what year did this happen? This was in 1960. Let me just double check 1969, yeah. When this this this event with this boy? 1969 OK. All right, Yeah. So there are, of course, many theories as to what happened to him.

24:43 Of course, you know, one easy one is that he had become lost and he died from exposure. It was a really cold night or some other cause likely after that first night. And it's probably one of the more probable theories, right? Another theory is that like, what do you think, Hungry Bear? Right. Exactly, or a feral pig and was just carried off. Yes. Once again, there were no foot or no no prints right? But could be likely. Another theory is that he was abducted and taken out of the park by something or someone, which is why we're here, right? Yeah.

25:31 Yeah. So this is actually a theory that Dennis's father believes himself. Interesting. The reason being is the afternoon that Dennis Martin disappeared, there was a tourist in the area named Terrell Key. Him and his family were just camping in the area and they heard an enormous sickening scream and shortly thereafter they witnessed an unkempt, rough looking man running up the trail near where the screen had scream had come from. OK, he was looking like the man was looking at the scream, the scream and he sees this man totally dishevelled. He gets into it though.

26:17 Man gets into a white car and speeds off in it. Now, Park Rangers and the FBI concluded that there was not sufficient evidence to actually link this, especially because it was 5 miles away from where the Martins were. Interesting. But the time of when the scream had occurred is not. We don't know. We don't know exactly what time it had happened. And they were looking, well, how would how would Dennis get there? You know, there's no trail connecting the two sites that they were in.

26:58 But Dennis's father says, I think he was abducted. There's no way. I saw my son hide behind a Bush and he was suddenly not there. So he subscribes to that theory. Now, if he was abducted, this is where Missing 411 stuff comes in. Missing 411 is, is a theory that Dave Politis came up with and what he started doing. Dave Politis is an investor. He was, he was a detective or a police officer for years and retired for 20 years, retired and started to just get pet projects.

27:47 Dave Plaidus is also really well known for the Bigfoot phenomenon and searching for Bigfoot in the, in places like the Great Smoky Mountains. So this was one of his cases and he subscribes now kind of a cop out, sorry, Dave Plaidus, but he says there's a lot of people who are missing and going missing in these national parks. We don't know exactly what it is, but we, we think that there could be something supernatural tied to it, potentially Bigfoot, potentially, you know. I mean, we don't know, Yeah. We can't find. We don't mean we don't know. We have no idea, but he's been searching and saying there are an awful lot of missing people, just like, you know, Dennis Martin, this little boy who seemingly popped behind a little Bush and just fucking disappeared, like what happened to this kid.

28:43 A lot of these things will happen, a lot of these stories will happen, and we don't know what the Hell's going on. Supplies has been searching for Sasquatch, which I know kind of crazy. He started doing work on Bigfoot, and he's released a couple of Bigfoot books, and he's also founded the group The North American Bigfoot Search. He's the director. Oh, my God. He believes that Bigfoot is real. OK. And he says that the world needs to understand that. North America, The North American Bigfoot Search. Let's see here that there's a study and that we have orchestrated the search that led to picking a there's a researcher who conducted did some DNA on Bigfoot. The this it was a study and they anyways, what ended up happening was results are inconclusive.

29:53 Is there is there a Bigfoot right? It's always that so he's doing this. He also has like a television show. People start following him and he has this pet project that is tied to missing 411. That's what he he terms it. It's missing, missing people within our National Park systems. A park Ranger had come up to him and was like, hey, I know that you have like these pet projects, You're retired, you've done the Bigfoot stuff. Clearly you're legit. So so you should really look into missing people in national parks.

30:33 He's like, OK, fine, I'm going to start looking at it and there he starts seeing like, holy shit, there are a ton of people who are going missing. Historically, you can go on to missing people online. I forgot it's like Namda or something like that. I don't remember. But a lot of them go missing in like Yellowstone and all these national parks And he starts looking, he starts saying like he he had under covered multiple lines of evidence suggesting negligence on the park Ranger Staffs ability to actually find and locate people. Well, they're are they?

31:21 Well, that's not their like, real job. That's not their real job. But also they don't seem to like the search methods that they use are maybe not as great as they should be, right? So maybe that's why all these people are going missing. He then starts broadening his investigation and includes missing people from across the world. And he said he's starting to say, OK, there's something else going on here. These mysterious sites worldwide are defying some of these. These stories are defying logical and conventional explanations. Yes. Now Mr. Pilates, he does not yet have a theory.

32:05 He says that he doesn't have a theory on what exactly is causing the disappearances, but he does say that. You know what I do believe is like I have like 3 theories which I'm you can buy to look on in my book. So I'm narrowing the case or the ideas of what is causing this down. There is one thing that I think is really important and he does have a good point with. So the US National Parks Service does not keep a list of people that go missing in their parks. They don't have like a list of, OK, here are the people in Yellowstone who have gone missing that we haven't found. You know, they don't keep their own list. There is a database for incident and criminal reports, but it's not widely or consistently used within the these park systems and it does not interface with other criminal databases. So if there is someone who's, you know, let's say it's a a serial killer who goes to these remote areas that people are hiking and just kills them and hides their bodies or whatever there, there is no way to tie all of this information together, which he says is a problem. Sure, it seems reasonable it.

33:28 Seems pretty reasonable. What if I were a serial killer? I would definitely go to like an area that I knew well that was didn't have cell phone service. Oh, by the way, I'm probably not going to be doing that, right. This is not, it's not the plan, but but I mean, it makes total sense. You're a serial killer. You have people who often times go hiking alone and bring all their stuff with them. So it's not like there is a trace of them. You can keep it pretty compact and the evidence would be very easily washed away with either a storm or just time. In general. If the person leaves and they don't tell you where they're going, you wouldn't know where to search 1st. And these are massive parks.

34:17 I mean come on, the Great Smoky Mountains, 56 miles that they were searching. So it's easy needle in a haystack like you were saying. Now, I do think that there is some truth to there needs to be like a little bit more investigation around these missing people. There's actually another case that I wanted to talk about, which is about this guy, his name. It's it's around Mount Shasta. So this man, which is shit Carl, I believe, yeah. So Carl ends up going to with his friend to Mountain Shasta. He's like, I'm going to go, I'm see 69 years old has done multiple hikes and he goes with his friends and says I'm going to go and just summit.

35:09 I'm they've been hiking and they end up going to bed, had some meals or whatever. He wasn't feeling super great, but he said, you know, I'm, I couldn't sleep very well the next morning. And he he tells his friends, I'm just going to start climbing the rest of the way to the the summit. Carl Landers and Carl, Carl and his friend Milt are there. And he says, I'm going to go. Milt says, yeah, whatever, we're going to continue packing up our campsite. Carl goes up, starts climbing, and they don't find him. There's no trace of Carl anywhere in Mount Shasta. There are a bunch of people around. They try to conduct a search.

35:56 They thought, well, maybe he just went all the way back down the mountain and is with his car. His car's still there. Everything that he owns is still there. He they don't find anything belonging to him. And a couple questions come up. Where did Carl go? He's he has been a Mountaineer. He knows what he's doing. How did he disappear? Couple and a couple of potentials. I think one his What if his friends did something right? That's possibility. That's the only other person who was with him. Those people were the only people with him. So if they wanted to kill him, it would be pretty easy. Or he could have.

36:40 He was not feeling super great and he didn't sleep very well. What if he just kind of fell off? Into some cavern. Into a cavern or or something. It's funny you bring up caverns that has to do it with a theory with missing 411. So Carl Landers I think is he was just a older dude, probably fell off and there's just no trace. Maybe like a bear or something ate the rest of him. It is strange they didn't find anything from him but there are some inconsistencies with the story and his friends retelling. It's not something like Dennis, the little boy who went missing who literally disappeared behind a fucking Bush and then had a huge search.

37:26 There wasn't a huge search with Carl. Could have been like potential evidence but like nothing was found right? And this was I think 1999. So makes sense that there was no cell phone service 'cause there are hardly any cell phones, but they're in the middle of nowhere and he was never found. The problem with missing 411 is there are so many theories and no answers. So people say, could it have been Bigfoot? Or maybe there's a portal in some of these areas that people are, you know, coming into, like, for instance, David Dennis Martin. Dennis Martin comes like pops behind a Bush. Maybe he disappears into some kind of portal. Hence no trace.

38:14 Hence no trace and he ends up being in like a different dimension or. Something that's one. Kind of think it's bunk. Do I want to believe in it? Yeah, exactly. Yes, but is it bunk? I kind of think it's probably bunk. Another theory which kind of ties into what you were saying with the caverns are is the fact that that there's huge cave systems underground and a lot of them, if you superimpose The Cave systems, which we will have in our show notes, an image of The Cave systems. And I'll, I'll show this to you, The Cave systems over the National Park areas and they overlay pretty easily. So so.

39:08 The So what do the orange dots represent? So that's it's the it's missing 411 stuff, which is kind of funny, but there are, that's where all the national parks are missing cave systems and missing people. So it seems to be a lot of these missing people are around The Cave systems. Yeah, look at that. Yeah, I'm showing you. If you're watching, I'm showing you. Yeah, the they're, they're all clustered right where the caves are. Yep, which? And a lot of these caves are in the national parks. Interesting. Which makes sense. Fascinating.

39:50 Because these are points of geological interest or, you know, natural beauty. Of course they would have cave systems underneath them. Sure, it makes sense. But all these people are going missing. So The Cave system, does that have something to do with it? I think maybe there's some legs to this. It could be. Now this is where a shit gets weird. OK, The Cave systems, potentially people believe that there are people who live in these cave systems and they don't, you know, of course, don't pay taxes or anything like that. And it's like an entire society that's down underground.

40:31 Entire society. Yeah, like, like an, like a bunch of folks live in these cave systems off grid and, and there may be snatching children or, you know, doing stuff like that. There's actually a story this this woman was saying that her mom said that a man actually had come bursting out of the hillside when she was a little girl at Carter Caves, which is in Kentucky. And he said that he had been wandering around underground for days and saw, finally saw like light and through the ground. They were actually just the family was sitting there having a like a picnic and this man comes out like just comes wandering out. He was a hiker and was like, I've been wandering around. I could not find my way out of this cave system. He comes out and which makes sense. You know, of course you're in a cave. There's a cave system.

41:27 You wouldn't if you didn't know The Cave system, you wouldn't know how to get out of it. But if you are a hiker and you got lost in it, you could very easily perish in there, right. So maybe something like that with with Carl Landers, but there are so many, they're saying different cave systems that potentially there's even this is where it gets when you're saying like secret underground military bases and these there are facilities and stuff underneath the ground in the United States in general. Once again, you bring the map up and people are saying, no, I know there's an underground base here. And actually we have spoken about underground bases. Oh yeah.

42:15 They do exist. Yeah, I think they do. This ties back to I I weirdly the DIA with the lizard people who live underground and snatch children for their. Right for their needs, right for their for like, what is it their blood or whatever. There was some, yeah. They needed something to live or eat or survive for something. I can't remember. I mean, like, look, like, are there probably subterranean like, like legitimate bases or legitimate like where weapons are stored and stuff? Yeah, I mean, that's legit. Is it Bigfoot snatching babies or like a reptilian army snatching babies?

43:01 And, you know, like, is that what happened to Dennis Little? Dennis Martin? Probably not. I thought that it would be fun to do a little bit of an episode on missing 411. But the more and more you uncover, the more and more theories there are, and the less and less, less, less answers you have. Yeah. Which? And like if anything, the the more you dig the the crazier. The more extreme. Extreme and absurd at times. The people you know believe in some of this stuff too. That's just like off the charts. I'm sure that there are like crazy, like kind of kooky people who live in The Cave systems, like in the Great Smoky Mountains.

43:48 Oh, I'm sure there are. Which would not surprise me. No. Are they snatching children a la What was that movie? I forget what it was called, but it was about like this woman who like snatched people and like treated them like her babies. Anyways, it was really it was really scary. But is that actually happening? I don't think so. I'm not entirely sure. And like, you know, poor Bigfoot getting brought into this whole spiel because David Politis like was on a quest to find him. Like, I, I think that there are, there are a ton of missing people who are going in these national parks, but I don't know, bring a fucking compass with you.

44:33 Like like like can we please learn how to remember we were talking about in the that flight with the the. Soccer team. The soccer team or wasn't a rugby team, no soccer team, OK with the soccer team. And they went missing and they kept on turn. They they didn't know what they were doing. They their plane crashed. They ended up finally finding because they were locating a body of water. Follow the water or the road like you did and know that's how you find civilization. So next time you're, you know, hiking, if you get lost, yeah, look for a road or for for like water and follow the water, the water source the the Creek or whatever, because you'll find civilization.

45:21 Let's talk about Bigfoot for just about second. Just a quick second. Do you believe in Bigfoot? Maybe the answer is maybe. Do I think like there's so many like fakers out there, what I've seen and we'll do like an entire actual like Bigfoot episode that's not tied to Missing 411. Do I believe that maybe Bigfoot could be like another dimensional like being? Maybe there are people that I've heard that said, I don't believe in any of this shit.

46:05 I'm a skeptic. I saw Bigfoot in my fucking backyard. It wasn't an ape. There was no, not me, no, no. But people who are like, Oh my God, I would be so scared. Be like, and, and there are people have the same stories, like, you know, they'll say things like it smells really bad and it seems to pop in and kind of be as freaked out about you as you are about it. And it pops out of wherever. Like, it seemingly disappears right in front of your eyes. We've talked about dimensions. Yeah. Why couldn't something like that exist? And it may be kind. Of well, maybe, and that's why no one can get pictures of it very well or track it, because maybe it's not.

46:51 Maybe it is like some dimensional thing. Yeah, I I think there maybe could be something like, once again, I wanna believe. In the privacy, I'm skeptical. I, I have to admit, I'm a super, super skeptic about the Bigfoot thing. But then I always fear being a skeptic because then it looked like a fool when it's real, right? You know, like, don't be so skeptical. And that's why I always say like I, I kind of tend to to take like the cop out answer because I'm like, maybe, you know, like then I'm not wrong or right exactly. Then I'm just incredibly neutral. I I think that there could be something to it. And just like this missing 411 stuff, I do think that these people are going missing.

47:33 And I think that there is something to it, whether it's a cave system, whether it's people who are really great serial killers, which there are so many. Yeah, they exist. They absolutely exist. National parks would be a great place to to kill people without a trace and to have fun with it if that was what you're into. And then there's also people who are fucking stupid and don't know what they're doing and are ill prepared to camp or to hike. Like they go on these like, you know, big hikes to a summit like Mount Shasta and are so ill prepared. I think that might be a lot more of the of the case and honestly, like, do you deserve to be eaten by a wild boar or like a bear?

48:23 Like have a bear or a bobcat attack you? Not necessarily, but like, maybe fucking Darwin, like, you know, survival of the fittest or smartest, like fucking come on, people. You know, like so. I don't know, I I thought. It could be lots of things. I guess it. Could be a ton, yeah. But if you've heard from or about seen, seen any kind of, you know, Sasquatch or if you've had your own missing four on one where you're almost a missing person like Kevin was, you know, tell us about it. Go on to our website, www.thebazaaraf.com. You can leave if you click on the mic, you can actually leave a voicemail and we will play it and explore the potential. I'd love to do that.

49:05 Yeah, yeah. So, OK, cool. Thanks for listening to today. Thanks for the episode. Yeah, be safe hiking friends. Please use some sense. Thank you. See you guys. Bye