Wounds of Wonder: The Divine, the Damned, and the Body That Bleeds

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Hello Bizarre story friends, if
you're tuned in now, you are

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listening to the bizarre AFA
place where we talk about the

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00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:08,360
strange, the unusual, the
unknown, and all things bizarre.

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AFI am Alicia, your Hostess for
today's episode and as always,

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we ask that you keep an open
mind.

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Keep a skeptical ear, but keep
on listening to those facts as

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we take you on our newest
journey.

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Wounds of wonder, the divine,
the damned, and the body that

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bleeds.
Well hello Kevin, my Co host

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with the most How are you
darling?

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I'm doing.
Great.

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Today, how are you doing?
I'm.

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Doing good.
Good, I'm doing good.

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You're looking a little saintly,
I feel.

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Yeah, what is that I?
Don't know like like like maybe

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you could you could go through
canonization.

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Hilarious.
Yeah, you did not.

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You clearly did not grow up
Catholic.

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Near.
No, you were, you were

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definitely Christian, right?
You grew up kind of well, but

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also you did automatic writing
Presbyterian.

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Yeah.
Presbyterian only because my

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friend.
Yeah, that's right.

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What's Presbyterian?
And Presbyterian is probably one

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of the more mild versions.
I would I would say they're

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known, as I've said this before,
they're known as the the nerds

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of the Bibles.
They really like dig into the

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history and the culture that was
going on at the time and what

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these like different aspects of
Aramaic, what actually meant.

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So so you're looking at the
breakdown of words.

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You're you're really nerding out
for sure, which is way better

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than like, I don't know,
something where people might be

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speaking in tongues, especially
if you were not like, you know

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exactly.
But Cat, have you been to a

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Catholic, a church I.
Have, you know, I went to, I

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went when I was in the military,
I was in basic training.

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And you know, it's, I don't want
to say traumatic, but like, it's

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a shock, right?
And so.

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Oh yeah.
And being in basic training.

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Yeah, and then you get into your
tech school after you go basic

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training to learn your trade and
you're just trying to find, I

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don't know, you need comfort of
some sort.

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You don't get to speak to your
family in in basic training.

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I said once, I think maybe we
did.

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And some friends that I had made
in my squad of them were very

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Catholic.
And I'm like, OK, well, I'm

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gonna go.
I'll go go try it.

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Sure.
Right.

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Sure.
Why not?

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I like these people.
Maybe I'll like that.

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Yeah, exactly.
And I realized licks are a very

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symbolic, like there's lots of
rituals and lots of things.

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Wow, this is intense.
And they seem very strict, I

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guess is the one.
I don't know what the word is,

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but.
They might like they might like

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you to call them devout.
Sure, right, But strict is a

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great is another like great term
for it.

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If you went gone to mass, they
like stand up, they sit down,

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they say things.
I remember I sat next to a

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friend and I was like, what are
you saying?

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And she's like, I don't know.
She's like, let me go back

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through it.
It's also memorized like those

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the different rituals and
ceremonies are so memorized that

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you don't you kind of lose,
lose.

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It's become so rote that
everything like loses any kind

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of purpose or you forget what
the words actually mean because

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you said so many times, right,
Which kind of goes into what

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we're going to talk about today.
You know, there are really

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stories, ancient, strange,
sacred, where faith becomes

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flesh ultimately, where
invisible, invisible pain can

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quite literally RIP open, spin a
skin, and where devotion isn't

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just heartfelt, it's hand, foot,
side felt.

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This is the in the realm of
stigmata, that's what we're

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talking about.
Yeah.

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So they're wounds that mirror
the crucifixion of Christ.

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What we're going to kind of
explore today is like, are these

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miracles?
Are they manifestations of

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trauma?
Are they, you know, mimicking

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somehow your brains like
mimicking something.

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And really, we're going to be
exploring 1 of Catholicism's

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most confounding mysteries is
stigmata.

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And we're going to kind of trace
it from, like, medieval Italy to

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the Vatican archives today and
from modern medical journals to

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stories of people that were so
empathetic that they bleed when

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other people suffer.
So maybe we'll learn a little

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something about how belief kind
of lives in the body.

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Is it possible?
And and back to what we were

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saying before about how powerful
the mind is to the extent that

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there's things we haven't even.
Touched even touched the

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surface.
Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, we were talking about,
you know, a few podcasts ago,

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superhumans, superpowers are
these exactly.

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Is that is that maybe a form of
stigma or religious like

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devotion?
So one thing that I was, you

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know, really wanting to touch on
was, OK, how the hell did the

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like, what do the cat, what does
the Catholic Church think of it?

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I mean, this could be either an
amazing PR, you know, move for

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the Catholic Church, right?
Or it could very easily

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backfire, right?
Like this person's just fucking

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crazy, right?
So the Catholic Church does not

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officially endorse every claim
of stigmata.

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And actually the Catholic
Church, I'm sure that you've

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seen it like at least in the
exorcist, you know, you have to

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have like an entire body coming
through and saying like, does

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this person actually need to be
exercised?

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Like is there a demon there or
is this potentially

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psychological?
One would think now today we

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have more of a stringent
following and the Catholic

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Church would one thing that I
thought was kind of crazy about

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that is you have you have the
Catholic Church that would

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greatly benefit from from this
PR.

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You know of my God, look at the
look at the hands of this father

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donate to the Catholic Church
today.

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You know, sure, but they are
very skeptical and it might

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surprise you, especially like
when some people like Saint

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Francis of Assisi, which we'll
talk about or Padre Pio Pio,

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they're they are canonized
Saints.

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Like we were talking before.
These people are are normal

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people that used to be working
for the church as you know,

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priests.
They were canonized and moved to

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sainthood.
So this is actually how the

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church approaches stigmata and
evaluating it.

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So the first one, the first
thing that they look for is they

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signs of self infliction did
this person is this clearly.

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Stabbed their hands.
Yeah.

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And has it healed over?
Does it seem like it's, you

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know, it's something that they
actually did themselves?

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The wounds must appear
spontaneously and resist natural

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healing.
So if they're with Padre Pio or

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with you and you start getting
stigmata, you start seeing like

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natural healing.
Well, you probably did that.

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It was probably self-inflicted.
OK, hang on a second.

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It's not healing normally.
So they say that if this is

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God's work, I guess.
Yes, a miracle A.

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Miracle and you start bleeding
from your hand, right?

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Is that have to be that?
Doesn't have to be your hand, it

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can also be from your foot.
Oh, your eye like crying blood

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or something?
Crying blood.

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There are very specific
stigmata.

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Specifically is wounds of
Christ.

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Christ well.
That has to be foot in hand,

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right?
Oh, I guess.

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Crap.
Side 'cause he was he was

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pierced in the side by by Roman
soldiers at the.

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End.
And so they're saying that if

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that occurs, if it is a miracle,
then you wouldn't heal.

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It would not just like all of a
sudden heal because here's the

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thing.
How often do you have like a

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bruise on You're you know,
you're like, oh shit, I have a

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bruise on my leg.
Like, how did that happen?

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You know, yeah, like that
happens often for me.

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I'm like.
Where did that come from?

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Yeah, where'd that come from?
Or like, huh, Did I take my iron

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supplement?
So it could be something as

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simple as that.
You cut.

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OK, You cut yourself on the hand
or whatever.

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Maybe we're sleepwalking, but
it's healing over.

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For it to be a true stigmatic
situation, they have to appear

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spontaneously.
OK, so there was nothing before

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it.
Just suddenly it's just there

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and it's resisting natural
healing, Right?

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And the first one was no signs
of self infliction.

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So it can't be, it can't be
something that looks like he

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clearly did it to himself or
they clearly did to themselves.

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The third criteria is that the
recipient must display extreme

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humility, piety, and have no
desire for fame.

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OK, sure.
Which makes sense.

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Makes sense, right?
You're humble like Christ.

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This is a God-given thing.
God would not give this.

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I guess gift.
Is this a gift?

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I don't.
Right recognition.

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Attention.
Attention, right, Because I

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mean, think about, think about
like the stereotypical teenager,

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don't understand me, I'm going
to become a goth, you know, and

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like, you know, but they're not
looking for any kind of fame.

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They're not looking for monetary
gain or anything.

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These are just people who have
the wounds have shown up.

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Yeah.
And they're not trying to get

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anything out of it.
Sure, they just can't explain

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it.
Yep.

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Okay.
The 4th criteria is behavior

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must remain psychologically
stable and virtuous.

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Makes complete sense, right?
Right.

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So over time they have to just
keep kind of checking I guess

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and they determine that their
behavior is staying consistent.

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They're not like.
Like going crazy, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.
This person's like

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psychologically balanced, yeah,
which is like makes a ton of

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sense, right.
You want to make sure if if if

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someone seemed to.
Because, you know, people can

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fall off the deep end.
Hey, how I've felt like I've

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almost fallen off the fucking
deep end.

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You can be normal one day and
then all of a sudden you, you

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know, are depressed or you're
manic or whatever.

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So they can't have any signs of
that, right.

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Yeah, they're super stable.
So the majority of the reported

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cases that come to the Catholic
Church are dismissed, right?

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The Catholic Church does.
Explain it in some form or

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fashion or one of those things
don't apply.

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Yeah, Yeah, they have.
They have like kind of like an

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investigative team that goes and
like looks to see, are these

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miracles like genuine miracles
or is this person just like full

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of shit and crazy?
Yeah.

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So a lot of the the stories that
they have are, you know, quietly

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dismissed.
You never hear about them.

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They or they're, you can label
them with something like, for

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instance, psychological, right?
This person is clearly in a form

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of mania, a religious idol,
idolization, and they think

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they're the Christ.
In reality, they might have some

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kind of mental illness.
Sure.

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So because most of these
reported cases are dismissed or,

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or labeled as psychological or
fraudulent, right?

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It's just a fraud trying to get
money in some place like small

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town and have have people come
because here's another thing.

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When these people come out, like
we'll talk about Padre Pio,

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people will go looking and
searching for a miracle.

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They are like dying of cancer.
And if you're, if you are on

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your deathbed or your child's on
your deathbed or your loved ones

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on your deathbed and you're
like, I need you to pray over

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this holy water.
It's going to somehow heal them.

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They're looking for anything.
You're grasping for straws.

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So people are coming with money
to these small places to try to

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get a prayer, a look in that
same direction there.

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You know, it's people who are up
against it.

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And there's a lot, a lot of
money that could potentially be

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made.
So it would make sense that if

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it is ruled as, you know,
fraudulent, well, OK, that's

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00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,760
clearly not God.
But if it's not, if they meet

229
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,000
all the criteria, then we have a
miracle.

230
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,720
OK.
So if we have a miracle from the

231
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,280
Catholic Church and you have
someone who like Padre Pio or

232
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,160
Saint Francis of Assisi, well
then what happens?

233
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,840
They're both now Saints, So how?
Right, right.

234
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,160
So this is a miraculous thing by
God.

235
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,960
So that Saints you.
It has the potential to Saint

236
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,240
you.
And that was one of the things

237
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,240
that I was thinking about.
I'm like, well, you know, like

238
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,840
we were saying, Catholics are
pretty strict.

239
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,160
They have very specific rules.
What would he?

240
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,920
What would even look like for
them to be canonized?

241
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,920
Ultimately, it's not just
miracles in order to be a St.

242
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:25,720
it's about being a martyr,
having virtue, and during the

243
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,680
impact of a holy life's.
Ultimately your reaching out to

244
00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:32,680
the poor like feeding the
hungry.

245
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,640
Things one would expect a St. to
do.

246
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,080
Exactly so you're a servant of
God.

247
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,960
Yeah, you're venerable.
Which the Vatican actually can

248
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400
declare whether or not someone
has had heroic virtue like

249
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,840
through this they they also look
at these potential Saints

250
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,400
reputation where they they
actually like doing some shady

251
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,560
shit on the side if they weren't
OK, let's continue down.

252
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,240
They can be be beautified be
aid.

253
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,800
Oh God, I'd kill myself later
beatified.

254
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:02,000
I know that you're listening and
you're like, this is how you say

255
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,880
Alicia, it's so stupid.
Well, guess what?

256
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,600
I don't know right now, but but
what basically what that means

257
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,960
is that it's a one verified
miracle.

258
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:15,640
So each one of these Saints have
had one miracle that has

259
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,880
BeenVerified.
It's not necessarily stigmatic,

260
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,840
but it can be okay.
It's usually some kind of

261
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,200
healing to.
Themself or.

262
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,960
Others.
That they've like anointed on

263
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,800
others, yes.
Okay, yeah, so when you think

264
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,960
about I, I always used to watch
Unsolved Mysteries and there

265
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,880
there were people who would
like, Oh my gosh, I went to see

266
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,720
Padre Pio and.
Healed me.

267
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,480
He healed me, I was blind and
now I see.

268
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,600
Sure.
OK, got it.

269
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,440
So they are, you know, it's just
through like the act of, you

270
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,400
know, basically God blessing you
and you're, you're acting as.

271
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,400
Yes, the vessel.
The vessel for God's current?

272
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:58,760
Sure.
So a second miracle confirms

273
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,760
sainthood unless they were
martyred.

274
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,720
So if someone was killed in the
name of like religion or you

275
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,880
know, killed for God but you did
1 miracle, then you could become

276
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,280
canonized, you could become a
St.

277
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,120
OK right?
But if you did the 1:00 and

278
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,280
you're still alive.
You're still alive.

279
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,840
You're still like, yeah, you
haven't done enough.

280
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,440
We need to we.
Need like another miracle, yeah.

281
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,000
We need proof, but I mean, it
would make sense or else you'd

282
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,200
have a million Saints, which
actually they kind of do have,

283
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,080
but you know, still like, you
know, we try to limit it.

284
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,840
Sure, like I said before,
stigmata, we would need that

285
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,800
second miracle to confirm that
sainthood in order to become a

286
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,520
St.
So stigmata is definitely not

287
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,840
required.
And honestly, in modern times,

288
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,440
like today with the Saints that
happen, it's actually barely

289
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,560
even considered proof of
anything divine.

290
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,800
It's really seen more as a sign
to look further into that

291
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,800
person, so to investigate
sainthood, rather than like,

292
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,560
okay, here you go, here's a
miracle.

293
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,200
It's like, no, no, that's not
they.

294
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,920
Healed somebody and then got
stigmata Ed right.

295
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,880
That would be kind of like a
confirmation or that's still

296
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,440
today not enough.
Well, they would have to at

297
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,960
least heal two people to be
considered a St.

298
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,000
But what if they first got
Stigmodid?

299
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,400
So we're going to start calling
it.

300
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,720
What if they first started
getting Stigmodid?

301
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,680
Well, if they first got
Stigmodid, then it's like a

302
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,240
beacon of light.
Oh, hey, there's something up.

303
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,000
God is doing something here.
So we need to go and like

304
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,800
investigate that person and see
if we can find a miracle.

305
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,040
What is a miracle?
We don't even need to go into

306
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:42,480
that question.
So the first stigmatic Saint we

307
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,120
talked about right before Saint
Francis of Assisi.

308
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:47,960
So he was really loved for many
things.

309
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,000
You've probably seen Saint
Francis.

310
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,200
It's just like 18 hundreds
1900s.

311
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,840
It was like 12 hundreds. 1200s
OK.

312
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000
Yeah, back in we're.
Good all ways back.

313
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,440
But he's a favorite for a lot of
people, OK, because he loved

314
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,960
animals.
He took a vow of poverty and he

315
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,600
had a poetic joy and suffering.
So he was he was kind of like

316
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,360
the emo.
I I like to think of him as like

317
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,800
the emo in his feelings.
A St. which Catholics don't kill

318
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:15,520
me.
Come on.

319
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:16,840
Like I'm just having fun with
it.

320
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,480
You're welcome, but.
Some reason I don't think we

321
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,560
have a lot of Catholic
listeners, but that's just me

322
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,360
guessing.
If you are, I would love to know

323
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,320
is Saint Francis one of your
favorites?

324
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,880
I know that they were as a kid
and it's because he was like, he

325
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,600
was like the animal.
Like if you had, if you really

326
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,920
loved your, your like your dog
or your pets, or if or if your

327
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,480
pet ran away, you would pray to
Saint Francis to have him help

328
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,480
find.
So he's like, he's the they have

329
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,000
like patron Saints for different
things and he's like the animal.

330
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,680
OK, so in 12 at 24, something
happened that forever changed

331
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,400
his story ultimately, and it
really kind of started the story

332
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:57,240
of Catholic mysticism.
So he was praying in solitude on

333
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,360
Mount Laverna when he saw a
serif, which is a six winged

334
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,640
Angel.
Look it up, it's scary as hell.

335
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,520
That sounds scary.
Yeah, it's definitely not

336
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,599
something you want to be seeing
when you're praying alone, you

337
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,680
know, on a on a freaking
mountain.

338
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:19,319
OK, so he sees A6 winged Angel
with the crucified Christ, like

339
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:22,920
with Christ on a cross
superimposed on it, right?

340
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,520
So it's like.
On the 6th.

341
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,880
On the 6th wing Angel, OK, it's
it's 1224.

342
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,160
We do have not seen projections
of shit.

343
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,040
Like the closest thing that
we've seen of a projection is a

344
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,960
fucking rainbow or shadow.
Like that's that's it.

345
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,240
Like so you see that on this six
winged Angel.

346
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,800
But remember, he's a priest, so
he knows.

347
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,680
I'm sure he's a learned
individual.

348
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,400
He knows, he knows that this is
a seraph.

349
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,880
And then he sees Christ like on
the cross.

350
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:54,360
After the vision ended, Francis
discovered open wounds in his

351
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,520
hands, his feet and his side.
OK, lining up.

352
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,760
Right.
So these actually bled, but they

353
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,440
didn't fester their end in
12/24.

354
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,480
I mean, they didn't have
antibiotics, didn't have like,

355
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,800
they had like, like salves and
stuff made out of everything was

356
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,360
very, very dirty, Right, Right.
His wounds were not pussing up

357
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,480
and, you know, getting infected.
And according to his followers,

358
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,240
they remained fresh until his
death two years later.

359
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,640
Wow.
So he had, he had the whole

360
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,920
thing.
Everywhere for a while.

361
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,000
Yeah, yeah, he was just, he was
just dripping.

362
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,520
He was really like his drip was
on.

363
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,720
So whatever on fleek.
I don't know what the fuck they

364
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,360
say now, but so he had those
wounds on his hands, feet and

365
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:38,200
his side.
Because if you don't know, Jesus

366
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,120
was crucified side.
So they crucified him on a

367
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,880
cross, His arms were out, feet
down.

368
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,960
And then to confirm that he was
dead, a soldier then pierced his

369
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,800
side.
And that's in the Bible.

370
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,200
That's like the story.
So there was historic

371
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,560
documentation.
Thomas of Solano, which was a he

372
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,400
was a Friar and a biographer
actually wrote about it soon

373
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,560
after Francis, St.
Francis of Assisi's death and

374
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:06,160
then Pope Alexander the 5th or
the 4th confirmed the event in

375
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,240
1255.
OK, so his body was then

376
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,640
inspected after he had died,
after Saint Francis had died,

377
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,680
they looked at his body and they
didn't find anything that could

378
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,760
point to how these wounds were
created and why they weren't

379
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,320
healing.
So Saint Francis's stigmata

380
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,520
really kind of set the spiritual
bar where stigmata is concerned.

381
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,280
He is like really the first one.
I'm the first stigmata guy and

382
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,240
the idea is like he had such
intense devotion to Jesus that

383
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,520
his soul and his body really
joined with Christ.

384
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,520
Suffering now.
Okay, I have a couple of issues

385
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,720
with Saint Francis.
One remember this was back and

386
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,960
okay, 12/24 was when he had his
vision.

387
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,600
Two years later, 12/26 is around
when he died.

388
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,320
Soon after his death is when
Thomas of Solano, the Friar and

389
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,120
the biographer, writes about his
stigma, Francis stigmata.

390
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:07,200
And then in 1255, Pope Alexander
says, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I

391
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,160
know this happened and I can
confirm it.

392
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,120
So this was like 30 years later,
the 31 years later that the Pope

393
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:15,560
is like, yeah, yeah, no, this
is.

394
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,440
Legit, he did have stigmata.
OK, was he the Pope the whole

395
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,680
time?
That's the question.

396
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:21,960
I have no idea.
I don't know.

397
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,800
And why now?
Exactly exactly what, why now?

398
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,720
Why two years after it's like
kind of muddies the water Like

399
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,960
is this legit?
Why are we saying that he did

400
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,840
have like the stigmata was not
written anywhere else.

401
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,080
Was it a lie?
Was it The Who knows who knows?

402
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,600
I, I just think it's really
weird that you don't hear

403
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,200
anything about it.
Before 12/26 we would think that

404
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,720
there would be something because
by the way, these are all like

405
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,760
monks or, you know, learned
people.

406
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,200
These are intelligent people who
know how to write and read.

407
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,800
And that's a lot of what they
fucking did.

408
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,160
And you know.
Yeah, they wrote and read.

409
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,400
Yeah, that's yes.
And probably did some other

410
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040
shit, but like, but that was
like that's like their thing,

411
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,440
right?
So you would think there'd be

412
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,360
more information about that,
Francis Yes.

413
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,840
It just kind of, I don't know.
Especially such a miracle.

414
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,480
I mean, yeah.
I mean, this is like we have top

415
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,840
notch like this is like the
thing.

416
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,880
Yeah, yeah, this is this is like
a bizarre AF story.

417
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,720
We are bro God, Jesus.
That is our life.

418
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,920
OK?
We've devoted our entire world

419
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,320
to this, right?
This proves God's love or God's,

420
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,440
you know, potential reality.
I.

421
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,520
Think this would be everywhere.
You would think it would be,

422
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,720
yeah.
And it wasn't so, I don't know,

423
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,880
just kind of like, so we were
talking, I brought up Padre Pio

424
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:47,440
because he is like the newest
version of stigmata that we like

425
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,640
as well known.
And now he's canonized.

426
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,360
He's a St.
Really the question here that I

427
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:56,360
have is like, since we, since
this is a pretty recent story,

428
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,600
how recent?
He was born in 1887 and died in

429
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,320
1968.
So so he.

430
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,920
Pretty like, we have pictures of
him.

431
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,760
We, we know a lot more about
this guy, right?

432
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,240
Well, pretty relatively new 700
years later from Saint Francis

433
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,400
of Assisi, right?
We're back in the 1200s.

434
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,960
Now we're in 1918, Like I said.
An Italian Friar named Padre Pio

435
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,000
reported a sudden pain in his
hands and feet during prayer.

436
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:26,720
OK.
Soon after, blood appeared.

437
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,400
Then it was matching on his
hands Christ's crucifixion.

438
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:37,640
So for the next 50, Padre Pio's
stigmata bled continuously.

439
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Holy SH what?
That's awful.

440
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:40,720
Yeah, you can see pictures of
it.

441
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,840
Like there are pictures of him
in various stages of life with

442
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,960
his stigmata out.
Like there are some like where

443
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,760
he's like the.
Hands wrapped, I wonder.

444
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,240
He did, yeah.
He had cutesy little gloves

445
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,680
like.
Like what is he like?

446
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,640
Was it literally?
Bleeding or like you'll OK, so

447
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,680
you'll see it like if you look
online, which you know, you can

448
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,840
Google, but I I can show you
like some pictures right now you

449
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:08,080
can see the pictures of him and
he is there are like some images

450
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,160
where he has the stigmata.
You can see that it's like in

451
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,640
his hand.
Hand is, it's like an.

452
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,880
Open wound, right?
Like his palm, his whole palm is

453
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,840
bloody.
Yeah.

454
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,040
And then him as like a younger
guy and you can kind of see

455
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:22,960
that.
OK.

456
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,840
Right.
I know, I know it adds question.

457
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,040
There are a lot of questions.
But he did have like a cutesy

458
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,000
pair of like fingerless gloves
that he would wear.

459
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,360
Yeah, look at that.
Which actually I do like those.

460
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,760
I I get it.
I would definitely wear them.

461
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,800
What a stylish way to take the
stigmata.

462
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,040
Just in case you're grossing
people out during community, you

463
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,640
know, don't.
Wanna look at the hole in your?

464
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,760
Hand you don't wanna look at the
hole in your hand and like don't

465
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760
really want to get like some of
my blood and like put all over

466
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,600
it.
OK, so, so for the next 50

467
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,160
years, like I said, his hands
were he was bleeding

468
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,560
continuously and not just in his
hands like everywhere, thousands

469
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,520
of people like from all over the
world, Catholics came to see

470
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,960
him.
His he performed masses, right?

471
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,120
Like that's sure he was the head
of the church and they would

472
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:08,720
have mass on Sundays, he would
perform masses and they were jam

473
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,440
packed.
Well of course, because in their

474
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,560
mind, isn't Jesus coming through
him?

475
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,800
Like he literally embodies a
real life Jesus, right?

476
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,080
Isn't that the idea?
The Yeah, the.

477
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,120
God is coming through him.
He is he is but a vessel, but a

478
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:29,760
vessel for for God's like God's
power and strength.

479
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,680
So like, why would which makes a
lot of sense to me.

480
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,440
Like I think about it, I'm like,
if I am a person that is up

481
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,680
against it, I have weeks to live
left and this guy has stigmata.

482
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,720
I'm a devout Catholic.
Oh my God.

483
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,320
Well, of course you're going to
go there.

484
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,280
Of course.
Like hopefully I can have him

485
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,920
pray over me maybe.
Touch me.

486
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:49,760
Whatever.
Yeah.

487
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,520
And maybe his prayers, you know,
are stronger than mine because

488
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,080
there is like that, you know,
that notion in Catholicism.

489
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,280
It's like, you know, you confess
your sins to a a priest and a

490
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,760
priest tells you how to the
blood of Christ is not enough.

491
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,680
It is, you know, by praying
different prayers and tell like,

492
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,720
like you, you have to confess.
So it would make sense that

493
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,680
through a religious man, through
your priest, they would be able

494
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,440
to.
Absolve you or heal you or.

495
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,480
Exactly.
Heal you.

496
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,560
You're it's not enough for you
to pray.

497
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,120
If he's praying, he's got the
stigmata.

498
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,160
I mean, come on, God.
'S this is like that man.

499
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,080
He's the man.
Yeah, exactly.

500
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080
He's the vessel.
So, you know, people continue to

501
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,560
just like, go, you know, to his
masses and they are claiming

502
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,840
extraordinary things, right?
They would say things like, you

503
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,480
know, Padre Pio, like healed me
from blindness or from this

504
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,000
cancer.
And people would go just

505
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,280
specifically to see him.
Also at the time, there were

506
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,720
wars that were going on, OK?
Like there are wars in Italy.

507
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,000
People were looking for any kind
of, you know, purpose, miracle,

508
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,040
hope, hope.
Exactly.

509
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,600
So this guy who has stigmata, of
course you're going to go to him

510
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,280
and try to get healed or or even
just be around someone who seems

511
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,320
holy.
So even if he wasn't holding

512
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040
masses, hundreds of people would
still go to just to get a

513
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,680
glimpse of him or see him.
So there are people that were

514
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:22,080
close to Padre Pio that claimed
not just stigmata was his gift

515
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,480
from God.
OK, so those close to him

516
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,720
actually attested that he began
to manifest many spiritual

517
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,160
gifts.
OK, the gift of healing.

518
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,520
We already know that.
We already kind of talk.

519
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,320
People have already said that
yes bio.

520
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,760
Location.
Bio location?

521
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,520
What the fuck is that?
It's where a person is located

522
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,920
or appears to be located in two
different places.

523
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,480
So I might be here right now,
but then I'm also.

524
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,320
Also in some other place, yes,
healing people.

525
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,880
Healing people or like telling
people God is with you or like

526
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,680
pray this or whatever.
So kind of a cultish, but this

527
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,520
is something that we've seen in
like Greek.

528
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,800
This was like Greek mysticism.
This is like kind of has that.

529
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,600
So people close to him said, Oh
yeah, yeah, no, he it wasn't

530
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,040
just yelling.
He could buy a locate.

531
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,440
They also said that he could
levitate.

532
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,280
They he would prophecy like he
would.

533
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960
He would, you know, tell the
future.

534
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,440
OK.
We talked about the miracle.

535
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,480
So miracles.
These are miracles, right?

536
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,920
There was an extraordinary
abstinence that he had from both

537
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,960
sleep.
So he didn't sleep very much at

538
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,040
all and he did not eat very
much.

539
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,640
There was actually one account
that's one of the Padres

540
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,960
recorded, which Pio was able to
subsist on for at least 20 days

541
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,520
without any nourishment.
And this was around the Holy

542
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,280
Eucharist, which is interesting.
They also said he had the

543
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,280
ability to read hearts so he
could read like what people's

544
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,200
intentions were or what it was
that they needed.

545
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,120
And the gift of tongues, which
we had briefly kind of gone

546
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:53,640
over.
Gift of tongues is when people

547
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,480
are talking, the idea is they're
talking in a different.

548
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,560
And that's the the language of
God, right?

549
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,320
Or that's the voice of God or
something like.

550
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,760
That language of God, the
language of the angels or even

551
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,920
like an an very old, like maybe
Aramaic that people will speak

552
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,240
in.
These are ancient, ancient

553
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,520
languages.
They said, yeah, he could

554
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,360
actually speak in tongues and
was able to convert a lot of

555
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,320
people.
Of course, you know, they're

556
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,040
coming.
They're coming there.

557
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,480
But they also said his wounds,
these wounds in his hands, they

558
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,160
smelled pleasant.
Yeah, which is interesting.

559
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,200
There wasn't festering.
It did not smell like blood.

560
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,120
It smelled like nice.
Yeah, I OK, I want to say so

561
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,040
many things.
So as all this stuff is

562
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,080
happening, right?
Like there's, he becomes

563
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,200
incredibly well known.
You know, he died in the 1960s,

564
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,520
this guy.
And this is like when you know,

565
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,360
photography, being able to get
movies and you know, pictures to

566
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,360
people all over the world.
So it's like perfect timing for

567
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,560
something like this to happen.
He actually became a spiritual

568
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,960
director and developed 5 rules
for spiritual growth.

569
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,920
So these were his rules, which
is interesting.

570
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,560
Weekly confession, daily
communion, daily communion.

571
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,200
I don't know if you've ever
taken communion.

572
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,680
No, Yeah.
I mean, so I grew up

573
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,600
Presbyterian like you.
Catholics quite honestly believe

574
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,440
that the blood and the body of
Christ like that way for that

575
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,400
they're taking and the, and the
wine that that is quite

576
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,960
literally it becomes it is
Jesus's blood.

577
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,840
That's what they believe.
And you have to confess and do

578
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,280
make sure that you're, you know,
doing the right things before

579
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,400
you can actually take Christ's
blood and like this sacrifice

580
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,200
the sacrament.
So there are like rules,

581
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,560
whatever.
I mean, come on.

582
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,120
Like you have to, you have to
confess daily in order to be OK

583
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,560
spiritually or weekly and
confess weekly.

584
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,760
I have daily communion.
You have to have spiritual

585
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,360
readings, meditation and an
examination for conscience.

586
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,000
So that's like his like whole
fucking spiel ordeal.

587
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,320
And and this, OK, this exam like
what?

588
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,480
Who does that that like your
priest, The examination, the

589
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,720
last one, the.
Self examination, self

590
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,480
examination.
So it's which actually is kind

591
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,960
of, I mean we like if your.
Perspective.

592
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,720
Yeah, yeah.
Like, look at yourself.

593
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Are you a good person?
Like, what could you change?

594
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,920
We should all probably do
something along those lines.

595
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,040
OK, got.
It right.

596
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,040
So the idea like, you know, I
just wanted to talk a little bit

597
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,560
about like him, but his stigmata
actually really set the

598
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,400
spiritual bar because his
devotion was so intense and we

599
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,680
had photographic and like visual
proof that we could now show the

600
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,840
world, right.
The Catholic Church could right

601
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,640
as you close your eyes and roll
roll your all those eyes in the

602
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,040
back of your head.
It's so funny, like I can like

603
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,760
all of my emotions and my I wear
everything in my face.

604
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,920
Like I can't hide anything.
No, you can't.

605
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,200
Which I love it because then I
know but.

606
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,240
You know exactly what I'm
thinking.

607
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,480
I.
Know exactly what you're

608
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,040
thinking and I'm like OK now I
have to play up this final so

609
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,160
you know he his devotion was so
the idea was his devotion was so

610
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,480
intense his soul and his body
once again like Saint Francis of

611
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,880
Assisi, you know joined with
Christ suffering.

612
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,280
So Padre Pio really like, has
this big name.

613
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,640
People are, are, you know,
asking questions, visiting him.

614
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,960
So the Vatican's like, OK, we
need to figure this out.

615
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,240
This is a Franciscan monk.
And Franciscan monks are like,

616
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,200
you know, you think of those
guys with like the not

617
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,040
loincloth, but like those like,
like basically brown.

618
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,720
Yeah, Roby things.
Roby things that are like basic

619
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,960
and that's that's a Franciscan
monk and the Franciscan monks

620
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,080
have very specific rules.
You live a life of poverty and

621
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,920
help people ultimately.
So the Vatican's like

622
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,520
something's happening here, we
need to go and see what's going

623
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,520
on because we're getting a lot
of attention and don't know if

624
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,000
it's good attention.
They actually banned him from

625
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,360
doing Mass publicly.
The church starts banning him.

626
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,240
Yeah, they're.
Doing this you need to stop we

627
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,120
we cannot have you do like do
mass like these this.

628
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,760
Is too out of control.
They think it's getting too

629
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,160
crazy.
Getting too crazy.

630
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,000
And we also need to investigate
this to see if it's legit or

631
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,080
not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

632
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,800
Right.
So in some letters that he had

633
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,320
from 1920, you can see this on
like, Unsolved Mysteries too.

634
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,720
You can see that Padre Pio is
ordering carbolic acid.

635
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,680
OK, OK.
This starts raising some

636
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,200
accusation.
What is it?

637
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,720
It's it's like a kind of like a
paste.

638
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,320
You can create a paste that it's
acid, it's acid, right?

639
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
So it's not like it's not.
Do we know what it's used for?

640
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,920
Like what is it's ultimate
purpose?

641
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Let's look it up.
OK, so you're so this they find

642
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,080
out that he's ordering this acid
and you're saying they

643
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,520
determined that you can use it
to make some sort of a paste.

644
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,560
It's, I mean, OK, so it's highly
poisonous.

645
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,800
So this was, this was a carbolic
acid that is that was ordered

646
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,920
from the pharmacy, OK.
OK.

647
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,440
In dilute solutions it's been
used as a disinfectant and an

648
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,560
antiseptic.
Okay.

649
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,440
It's like one of the key
ingredients for a lot of

650
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,680
industrial processes.
Okay, so.

651
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,360
But he's able to order this
somehow.

652
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,200
He's able to order it from the
pharmacy.

653
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,760
Okay, they find record of this.
Okay, now here's here's the

654
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920
question is like, did he use it
on his hands?

655
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,000
Well, what is it?
Why you can use it?

656
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,280
So, so it's like a disinfectant.
So like if you if you like was.

657
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,240
He maybe trying to disinfect his
holes.

658
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,040
Could it could have been could
have been he could have been he

659
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,320
could have been putting it on to
cause because because if you

660
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,160
don't dilute it.
It could like, you know, it

661
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,600
could have caused his hand to
bleed.

662
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,920
Those pictures, his whole palm,
it was bloody.

663
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,960
Now I'm sorry, if you had
stigmata it would be a hole in

664
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,040
your hand that would be bleeding
down.

665
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,960
Like why is your hole just your
whole palm bloody?

666
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,360
It's a good question.
It was.

667
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:33,880
It looked weird to me.
It did look, really.

668
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,760
It looked weird.
It I mean, the picture on the

669
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,200
picture that we looked at, it
wasn't like the best quality.

670
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,800
No, no, but you could see his
whole palm was red.

671
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,440
It was the width and almost
height of his.

672
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,560
Palm.
Entire palm.

673
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,320
So yeah.
Or you were to take that acid

674
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,920
and rub it on your hand.
If it starts eating your hand,

675
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,480
that would make sense.
What would also be interesting

676
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,320
is, but did you see anything on
his fingers?

677
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,400
I didn't see anything, any
finger, anything on his fingers

678
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,880
like showing that.
There was getting eaten.

679
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Yeah, Yeah, no.
Just on his palms.

680
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,680
He used a paintbrush.
He could have used a paintbrush.

681
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,120
Yeah, but but like I said, like
if you don't dilute it, it will

682
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:09,280
eat away.
It's an acid.

683
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,719
It'll eat away your skin.
Which makes sense, he wouldn't

684
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,159
have used his finger.
Right.

685
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,840
That's very true.
Yeah, Yeah.

686
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,320
You're you're going to use a
paintbrush or something to apply

687
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,320
it?
Potentially, yeah.

688
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,360
OK, so this reason raises
questions.

689
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,000
A question, right?
Yeah, we're sitting here like

690
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,880
saying, OK, in 1920 you can go
back and see that he did order

691
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,320
some and he could have caused
those wounds himself like we

692
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,600
were saying, OK, brush the.
Theory, yes.

693
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,840
Doctors at the time are actually
divided and some said that the

694
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,840
wounds defied explanation.
And other people, Other doctors

695
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,600
at the time said this is clearly
a dermatological trauma, OK.

696
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,480
This is clearly just a skin
trauma.

697
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,719
There is this is a skin wound.
It's not going into the, you

698
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,320
know.
Which would make which would

699
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,679
align with the acid.
Right, right.

700
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,920
And potentially had further
question as to whether or not

701
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,760
this is a God-given thing,
because if it's only the skin,

702
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,480
you would think that it would
like penetrate a little bit

703
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,040
more, right?
Or it wouldn't just look like a

704
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,200
burn.
Like a serious burn Right

705
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,120
question.
Yes, why would I would say

706
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,800
that's what in my mind, if this
is truly an act of God, it would

707
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,400
it would be what I would picture
to be the same wound of Christ.

708
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,160
Right, Yeah, yes.
And you know, I mean, people do

709
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,080
crazy shit, right?
Like, oh, no doubt.

710
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:26,240
So like, would you create this
trauma?

711
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:27,240
Maybe.
Yes.

712
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,000
It could be because you're so
devout and you're like, I want

713
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,520
to have like some kind of
feeling like like I am Christ.

714
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,440
I live my entire life.
I want to have this pain.

715
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,360
Do I create it myself?
Do I lie about like there are?

716
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,560
Talk himself.
He could.

717
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,240
You could talk yourself out of
thinking.

718
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:42,600
You're lying too, by the way.
Absolutely.

719
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,600
Yeah.
You're so devout.

720
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,840
So devout.
Yeah, this is this is your own

721
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,600
eternal salvation we're talking
about.

722
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,000
Yeah, he could think.
He's not being mischievous, Yes.

723
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,240
Well, and while he was alive the
whole time, the Catholic Church

724
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,200
is doing these investigations.
These investigations don't end

725
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,120
with his death, OK?
They're continuing to look into

726
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,560
everything.
Was this real?

727
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,960
Was this not real?
Like, what is the legitimacy

728
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,600
here?
During his life, Padre Pio still

729
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,840
living a life of poverty,
helping, doing all the things

730
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,920
that he had to do, right?
As a Friar, as a Franciscan

731
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,480
monk, his devotion never wavered
and nor did the people who went

732
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,720
to visit him, right?
For these miracles, he was

733
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:24,800
canonized organized in 2002.
Really.

734
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,040
Really.
There's still debate though.

735
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,760
Well.
Clearly did he The church was

736
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,720
convinced, yes.
Otherwise they wouldn't have

737
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:35,120
done it right.
And remember, we, they have like

738
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,600
criteria.
We, we went over a basic

739
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,840
criteria.
I mean, the criteria probably is

740
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,240
much more storied and they
probably have specific accounts

741
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:45,520
or accounts and interviews and
stuff.

742
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,360
But this was, you know, close to
40 years after or, yeah, over

743
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,600
like 40 years after he had died,
right, That they finally

744
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,480
canonize him and have enough
information to say, yeah, that's

745
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:58,600
exactly what happened.
Really.

746
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,880
The the debate still swirls.
People still call him a grifter.

747
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,000
They still say, you know, he did
this himself.

748
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,360
This was his own inner torment.
People will have psychological

749
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,560
issues or like, you know, inner
self hatred and like, cut

750
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,240
themselves or like do self harm.
Maybe he had his own inner

751
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,800
torment.
That's what some people say.

752
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,840
Other people say that he's just
a grifter.

753
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,680
But some people, I really
believe that he, he was a, you

754
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,200
know, truly blessed by God.
One thing I was thinking about

755
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,440
when we were doing this, I knew
because I was raised as a

756
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,280
Presbyterian art of the Bible.
Just do.

757
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Do these wounds actually depict
what Christ's crucifixion would

758
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,920
have looked like like
historically if we go from a

759
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,840
historic context?
OK.

760
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,520
Are these correct wounds?
Right.

761
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,520
Do they line up?
I know the answer to this, but

762
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,600
what really did happen to Jesus?
I'm going to tell you.

763
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,200
So the crucifixion itself, you
know, normally we see like in

764
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,560
the the Catholic Church, a lot
of churches, you know, you see

765
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,040
the nail through the palm of the
hand.

766
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,440
Yeah.
Now if you are on a cross and

767
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,080
these like crucifixion deaths,
like public, public deaths were

768
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,840
legit.
These happened all the time.

769
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,160
And it was really oftentimes
too.

770
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,360
These types of these
crucifixions were commonplace.

771
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,600
Weren't necessarily commonplace,
but they would happen,

772
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,920
especially if you needed to make
a case for like, don't be this

773
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:25,920
asshole.
Yeah.

774
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,440
Yeah, like.
It's not like this was an

775
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,440
original death method.
Crucifixions.

776
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,040
Crucifixions were a death
method.

777
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:34,520
You know they weren't.
Is this what?

778
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,040
Jesus's crucifixion wasn't a
unique death.

779
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,040
Method it was not right no this
happened historically you can

780
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,360
eat there is historic
documentation for this yeah

781
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,440
legitimate sources so like I
said you see it through the

782
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,400
palms through the feet yes the
palms if you had someone on some

783
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,040
wood it would not hold someone's
weight because you remember

784
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,360
people did not die straight away
when they were crucified it was

785
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,240
like.
Yeah, why would you?

786
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,120
No, no, no, it was, it was a
very slow death.

787
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,640
And really, that when, and I was
talking about the spear to the

788
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,840
side, that Jesus had that wound,
yeah, that's really seen as a

789
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,000
mercy to someone.
To just end it yeah, but didn't

790
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,080
they they didn't tie him as him
up.

791
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,120
I just made an assumption that
if you're.

792
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,880
Tying someone up, it would take
hours, days to fucking die.

793
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,600
No, but I mean the nails aren't
holding your hands up, but the

794
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,520
ropes would be.
The ropes but but still like how

795
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,760
long are are the ropes like
you're dead weight, you are

796
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,480
dead, you can't.
You are dead weight.

797
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:34,920
Yeah.
So you are dead weight.

798
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,880
How long is that actually going
to even like they have to when

799
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,080
they're if they put it through
the palm specifically, yes, then

800
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,600
your hand is just like the nail
goes through the hand.

801
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,000
Yeah, it's not like it's going
to stay perfectly.

802
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,720
And you're still catched, right?
But then you have use of your

803
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,600
arms and your hands, Yeah, even
if you're still tied onto the

804
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,160
onto the cross like you're
still, you have use of your

805
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:57,800
hand.
Provided that you came loose

806
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,120
from the nails, right?
Yes.

807
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,560
So they would never actually put
a nail through a hand.

808
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,360
They would actually put it.
The Roman crucifixion was likely

809
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,600
through the wrists that they
would put the spikes through.

810
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,400
Really.
Yeah, it's a much stronger.

811
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,880
Because of the two fever, the
whatever those.

812
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,800
Are.
Yeah, it's actually the radius

813
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,360
and ulna.
OK, so the feet were?

814
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:22,880
Junior high biology.
There we go.

815
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,680
The feet were actually nailed
either individually to the sides

816
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,440
or or stacked on top of each
other and then nailed through

817
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,480
the heel.
OK.

818
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,240
Sometimes there was a support
block at the bottom to prolong

819
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,640
the suffering.
So like I said before, this is

820
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,000
so gross.
It's so gross.

821
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,960
But like, this was a public.
This was like a warning.

822
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,320
Prove a point.
Exactly.

823
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,280
So there was actually a rare
archaeological find from 1968

824
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,560
where there was a crucified man
and they could confirm from this

825
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,720
crucified man that he did have
an ankle nailing.

826
00:40:55,720 --> 00:41:00,000
So his bones showed trauma which
were consistent with that spike

827
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,320
or nail being driven through
both feet like what we see in

828
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,040
with Jesus.
So his side wound, which was

829
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,040
described in John 1934 was
likely from, like I said, a

830
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,000
spear actually, or maybe a a
sword.

831
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,560
But they they say spear so it
would Pierce the lung or the

832
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,400
heart to to confirm death to
make sure the person was dead.

833
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,680
OK, so now that we know likely
the crucifixion was through the

834
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,320
wrist, the wrist, why are these
people having or showing their

835
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,440
hands having trauma?
Because that's what they've been

836
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,480
told.
Right.

837
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,520
Is it a fake?
Is it psychological?

838
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,040
I don't know, but I do think
it's a really good question to

839
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,600
ask.
Is this a psychological issue?

840
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,280
Stigmata.
So what if I actually told you

841
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,800
that some people don't need a
vision or a miracle to bleed?

842
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,320
The mind has so how much power
over the body, which we talked

843
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,480
about.
And sometimes, honestly, it's

844
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,360
devastating.
So there is a thing called

845
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,960
conversion disorder and it's a
functional and neurological

846
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,360
symptom disorder.
And this is where emotional

847
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,320
trauma causes paralysis,
seizures, blindness, and there's

848
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,880
no medical cause.
OK, so someone has.

849
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,720
I believe this, yes.
Which makes total sense.

850
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,920
Total sense.
Like people will wake up one day

851
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,360
and I can't.
I can't move.

852
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,800
See, I can't move.
Yeah.

853
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,720
And it is 100% because of the
trauma that they have endured.

854
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,080
And it's almost like a
protective mechanism, right,

855
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,960
that their brain has for them.
Actually, soldiers in World War

856
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,000
One often went shell shocked and
they were unable to walk despite

857
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,760
0 physical injury.
They were so and they, this was,

858
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,560
they called it, called it shell
shocked.

859
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,280
And the idea was like it was all
trench warfare.

860
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,600
This was the first war, like
industrial sized war that, you

861
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,840
know, we were around and these
people saw death around them all

862
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,480
the time.
There was mustard gas.

863
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,360
There was grenades being
launched.

864
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,240
This was not hand to hand combat
or battle anymore.

865
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,280
You're not looking your enemy in
the eye.

866
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,720
You're throwing something over,
you know, 20 feet in front of

867
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,720
you and causing someone's death
and seeing the people right next

868
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:03,480
to you die.
And so people would come back

869
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,200
from more shell shocked.
They couldn't walk.

870
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,280
They would, you know, cry.
Like you can see old footage on

871
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,320
YouTube of men who are shell
shocked, which is pretty fucking

872
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,880
crazy.
But through therapy, through,

873
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,280
you know, being around other
soldiers talking, I don't know

874
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,080
about the shit that you've seen.
People could eventually

875
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,320
sometimes come out of it.
Sometimes they never did, but

876
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,720
some people would.
So there's also something called

877
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:30,840
like psychogenic bleeding, which
I had briefly touched on in the

878
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,320
intro to the podcast.
So this is actually rare cases

879
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,400
that have shown skin breaking
out in blood under intense

880
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,760
emotional stress.
And now this is typically

881
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,400
documented in people who are
suffering from an extreme grief

882
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,800
or religious fervor.
Gotcha.

883
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,160
You're right.
Probably because emotions are

884
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,000
can be equal.
Right, emotions can definitely

885
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:55,360
be equal.
Like they talk about there is a,

886
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:59,240
there's a syndrome that causes
your heart to it's basically

887
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,840
from grief and your heart will
stop working because you're so

888
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,000
heart like quite literally
heartbroken.

889
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,000
Your heart totally breaks and it
just stops working.

890
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:13,040
There is nothing physiologically
wrong with you, but it's like

891
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,480
your brain tells your your heart
to just stop.

892
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,960
You can't go any longer.
So some people do feel in

893
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,160
physical sensations when they
see other people being touched

894
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,520
or harmed.
I don't know if you've ever

895
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,520
watched like a scary movie movie
with someone.

896
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,520
And some people like, Oh, I
can't, I can't watch that.

897
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,640
Like it's too hard for me.
Oh, I feel like, I feel like I'm

898
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,000
going through that.
Some people will watch a movie

899
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,640
and never feel that empathetic,
you know, reaction, right?

900
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,320
For me, I like if it's a
suspense, I'm like, Oh my gosh,

901
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,200
I'm getting so hard right now.
Like like I, I start sweating

902
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,000
like it's, it's a lot.
I it's a huge deal.

903
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,280
But some people like they, it
physically harms them when they

904
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,760
watch horror movies.
They feel like they're going

905
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,200
through pain, right?
And it's really it's a subtype

906
00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:59,720
of extreme empathy, so they
receive real pain that is

907
00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:03,280
witnessed from suffering.
They actually did psychological

908
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,520
studies on this.
You can watch it on YouTube

909
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,240
where someone has a fake hand
arm.

910
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,560
On the with the wall, yes,
that's fascinating.

911
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,320
So fascinating.
So, so what's happening is like,

912
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,440
you have a divider and you have
a fake hand and a real hand or

913
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,240
the person's real arm, right?
And whatever's happening on the

914
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:26,240
fake arm is also happening on
their arm.

915
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,800
Feel it?
So before they put up the

916
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,440
divider, they're doing the exact
same things.

917
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,320
Yeah.
They're moving a pen up and

918
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,280
down.
And they're watching them put

919
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,160
the pen up and down on the fake
arm while they're also doing it

920
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,360
on their arms.
So it looks like and feels like

921
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,880
it's happening to you on the
fake arm.

922
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,840
Yeah.
And then you have a divider,

923
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,440
right?
They know there's, that's a fake

924
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,240
arm, Yes, they're aware of it.
And then the person who's doing

925
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,400
the, the scientist who's doing
the the actual thing grabs a

926
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,040
knife and stabs the.
And people say, I feel like that

927
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,680
was my arm.
I felt like you stabbed me in

928
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,960
the arm.
They will shriek in pain, yes,

929
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,960
because they like that's the
brain.

930
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,520
Yeah.
That's the brain.

931
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:10,800
Like, yeah, that's the empathy.
So, you know, people like

932
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,280
there's like I said, people can
will do it like through being

933
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,880
hard, like they'll watch someone
who's being harmed.

934
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:17,960
They'll if you witness
suffering.

935
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,320
Now let's add in to that deep
religious belief.

936
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,480
Sure, OK.
Yeah, deep.

937
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,360
Deep we're talking, we are
talking people who quite

938
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,360
literally devote their entire
lives to this religion to this

939
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,520
purpose.
Layer on top of that trauma,

940
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,840
right?
The death of Christ.

941
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,040
We talked about it before it is
fucking traumatic just to even

942
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,280
talk about.
And if you're like being, you

943
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,360
have all this iconography around
you, and it's all like suffering

944
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,960
pain, you should be thinking,
you know, you have a lot of

945
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440
guilt and trauma from that.
You're a monk.

946
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,400
You're a Franciscan priest.
You're isolated, right?

947
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:01,040
It is the perfect fucking storm
for the mind to produce sacred

948
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,120
wounds.
You could.

949
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,280
Yeah.
You could definitely do that,

950
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,880
right?
Of course I mean that yes, I can

951
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,120
see it.
It's not far fetched in my mind.

952
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,440
Not at all.
And there's there are books

953
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,960
today that you can read like for
instance, the body keeps the

954
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,040
score.
I would say everyone should you

955
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,320
can like listen to it for free.
An audio book body keeps the

956
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,000
score.
It's actually by doctor Bessel

957
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,240
Vanderkolk totally talks about
how trauma is stored within the

958
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:26,120
body.
This is I don't know if have you

959
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,640
ever done trauma therapy or
anything like that.

960
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,880
No, I have.
And I will tell you there are

961
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,520
places in your body that you can
feel trauma.

962
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,640
And when it's it's released,
it's ridiculous.

963
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,800
Like think about people who get
like chiropractically, like

964
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,560
adjusted or a massage and it's
like, holy shit, that release,

965
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,360
instant relief.
It's instant relief.

966
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Or people will start crying or
laughing.

967
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,400
Like I the first time I got a
chiropractic, like, you know,

968
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,480
adjustment, I started laughing.
It was the weirdest fucking

969
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,080
reaction.
Isn't that weird?

970
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:56,200
Yeah.
Yes.

971
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,400
I don't know why it's I maybe it
was like being scared or maybe

972
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,600
it was like releasing something
deep within me.

973
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,400
I, I don't know, but it's one of
those things that like your body

974
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,600
knows and your brain might not
be able to process it, but your

975
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,280
body does keep that score of
trauma or that experience that

976
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,920
you've had.
There are a ton of NHI or NIH

977
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,600
case reports on people who are
bleeding like it's like sweating

978
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,320
blood, like think of the, the
crown of thorns or whatever and

979
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,720
like Jesus.
So people will see that and like

980
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,640
be so empathetic, they will
start bleeding down their faces.

981
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,440
And, and I mean, they have a
disorder called conversion

982
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:35,560
disorder.
People like we were talking

983
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,240
about synesthesia, right?
Like synesthesia where people

984
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,920
relate one thing that two things
that are seemingly not related,

985
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,960
you relate to it and it's it's
this feeling that you have.

986
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,240
So ultimately, like at the end
of this, I keep on thinking

987
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:50,280
like, what is stigmata?
Is it?

988
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:51,520
What is it I?
Don't know.

989
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,840
Is it a divine imprint?
Is it a psychological phenomena?

990
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,160
Is it a strange kind of
psychosomatic cry for meaning?

991
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,520
Or maybe that's really just a
mirror and the answer kind of

992
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,960
depends on what you want to see.
No doubt.

993
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,440
When you look.
At it, no doubt.

994
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,640
No doubt.
All I can tell you is that the

995
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,360
line between what we know, what
we don't know, spirit and skin,

996
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,240
it's the way thinner.
And then we fucking think.

997
00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:17,520
We talk about it all the time
from whether it comes from the

998
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,160
heavens, from the heart.
Stigmata is another case that

999
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,840
kind of reminds us that there
might be more to this fucking

1000
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,080
world than we think, right?
So.

1001
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,200
There's a lot of unknown, yeah.
That just proves that there's

1002
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,360
unknown.
Yeah.

1003
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,160
So weird.
So.

1004
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,000
Weird.
And hopefully, like, if you are

1005
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,880
like one of those really
empathetic people, hopefully you

1006
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,200
didn't start bleeding.
Oh my, you're watching that.

1007
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:37,240
Can you imagine?
Like.

1008
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,720
Hey starts sweated sweating
blood.

1009
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,880
Thanks for bringing up stigmata.
Yeah, it's gosh.

1010
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:47,720
That's crazy.
I mean, at first you think about

1011
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:49,880
it, I kept on vacillating
between Padre Pio.

1012
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,160
I'm like, was he a grifter?
Like, could these people be

1013
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,200
grifters?
But and.

1014
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,840
Then you go, right?
Like, is he just so devout that

1015
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,200
he did it to himself?
Like, unbeknowingly.

1016
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,920
Like, just, well, we'll never
know.

1017
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:05,040
We'll never know, but there are
reported cases of people who

1018
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,760
have been so empathetic and had
this like, like their brain has

1019
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,440
created wounds on their body,
whether it's through empathy,

1020
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,440
whether it's through trauma.
We don't know his specific

1021
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,760
history.
We don't know if that, you know,

1022
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,760
if he could have had a situation
from his childhood where he it

1023
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,360
just so happened to show up in
wounds on his hands and his feet

1024
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,160
and like, you know, whatever.
And, you know, and then people

1025
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,480
will talk about, and I've seen
this on TV where, you know,

1026
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,160
statues will start dripping
blood.

1027
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:30,760
Yes, yeah, we should,
definitely.

1028
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,640
Talk about that.
Or there's some Virgin Mary that

1029
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:34,760
cries blood or something like
that.

1030
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,120
Cries blood or oil or yeah.
Well, I mean, what's that about?

1031
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,640
I think this world is just,
there's so much more to it.

1032
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,920
The longer I live, the more and
more I realize, like, I have no

1033
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,680
fucking clue what's going on
here.

1034
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:50,360
I don't understand a lot of
things and there are so many

1035
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,320
things that just don't fit the
boxes.

1036
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:58,200
We put the universe in and we
put this experience, this human

1037
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,520
experience in.
It's because we have to have,

1038
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,320
because for us to, I guess be,
you have to have an explanation

1039
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,080
for things, right?
And so then people create these

1040
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,400
boxes and whether it fits in the
box or not, you get it in the

1041
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,880
box.
Otherwise it's not in the box.

1042
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:13,920
Oh my God.
Yeah, I don't care if it's a

1043
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,360
square peg in a round hole,
we're gonna fucking jam it in.

1044
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,280
Yeah, it gives us it gives us
meaning.

1045
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,840
Or there is so much comfort in
answers and clear cut.

1046
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:23,840
Answers.
That's it.

1047
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,520
And like the idea of science,
science is physical.

1048
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,320
It's all physical proof.
It has to fit what we can see.

1049
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,640
We don't really like, we don't
really talk about other means of

1050
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,680
proof we don't talk about.
That exactly things that we, I

1051
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,440
don't want to sound all weird,
but on this plane or this

1052
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,000
dimension or whatever can
explain right there could be if

1053
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,520
what if it's what if there's
other things at play that don't

1054
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,840
fit into our world?
Then you can't explain it.

1055
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,120
And then that's when things get
weird.

1056
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:55,640
Yeah, then it just doesn't
exist.

1057
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,720
It's just like, nevermind, it
doesn't matter.

1058
00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:59,480
It's like, no bitch, it's still
happening.

1059
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,920
What the hell is this?
Right?

1060
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,600
Or it's labeled as like a
pseudoscience, right.

1061
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,880
The trauma being in the body, we
have had fucking proof of that

1062
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,360
for so long.
And when I've tried talking to

1063
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,720
people about the body Keeps the
Score, which is this book,

1064
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,400
people like, oh, I don't know if
I believe that.

1065
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,520
I'm like, it's not, this is not
a question.

1066
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,160
Whether or not you believe it.
I'd never asked you what your

1067
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,400
fucking opinion is.
It's what's happening Like this

1068
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,000
does not matter.
That's funny.

1069
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:28,520
But yeah, that's stigmata.
And yeah, crazy.

1070
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,200
It's it's wild.
The whole idea of miracles I

1071
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,400
think is something we should
definitely, definitely like look

1072
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,200
more into.
That's another thing, because

1073
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,760
that can be so broadly defined
by so many different points of

1074
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:39,560
view.
Wow.

1075
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,560
Absolutely.
Great.

1076
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,240
Wow.
Fascinating episode.

1077
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,000
Yeah, thanks.
Yeah, it was good.

1078
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,520
Yeah, yeah, no, thank you for
for, for being here with you.

1079
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,760
And I guess instead of saying
goodbye, we can say Ciao.

1080
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:53,320
Yeah.
Ciao.