Death Delusion - Walking Corpse Syndrome

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Hello bizarre story, friends.
If you're tuned in now you are

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listening to the Bizarre AFA
place where we talk about the

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strange, the unusual, the
unknown, and all things bizarre

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AF.
I'm Alicia, your host for

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today's episode, and as always,
we ask that you keep an open

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mind.
Keep a skeptical ear, but keep

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on listening to those facts as
we take you on our newest

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journey, Death Delusion.
Dearly beloved, we are gathered

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here to say our goodbyes.
I had to quote rent, you know.

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Hello, Kevin.
Hi.

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I could have had a little organ
music back.

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In the I know for you here she
loves.

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I love rent, and we are theater
people, so I had to We're both

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wearing black.
How are you doing?

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You look very.
I'm more sharp.

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I love those buttons.
Those are great.

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But you see how it goes on an
angle?

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The whole.
The whole kind of.

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Always, always have the coolest
clothes.

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Honestly, how are you, Boo?
I'm doing great.

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Good.
Yeah, it's been, I've seen you

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in a couple weeks.
I know, A little bit of a hot

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minute.
Yeah, that's good to see your

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face too.
So I I know I told you like

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Kevin was like, OK, So what is
this topic about?

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We don't really tell each other
what our topics are beforehand.

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And I was like, it's like death,
like The Walking Dead.

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Yeah, you know, what did you
say?

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You said living death or
something.

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Yeah, like, and I'm like, what?
The living dead?

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Yeah, yeah, the living dead.
That could have been a better

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title for the episode.
Oh, well, I don't know.

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I'm sure people are like, what
the fuck are they gonna be

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talking about?
Yeah, our, our.

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Well, our topic today is
incredibly rare and I'm talking

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like super, super duper rare and
bizarre.

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It's just a warning here.
I thought I would do it.

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At the top of the episode, we're
going to be talking of death,

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suicide and suicide societal
thoughts.

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So anytime we do have a topic
that mentions this, we like to

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put a disclaimer in If you're
having thoughts of suicide,

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you're not alone.
Please call 988 if in the US.

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And the first link in our show
notes will actually be for the

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International Association for
Suicide Prevention.

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It has resources.
No matter where you live, you're

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worth it.
So.

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Yes, Amen.
Yeah, business done.

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I know that we are two dramatic
people.

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We enjoy stage acting.
Have you ever played anyone who

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has died or or dies on stage?
You have.

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OK, What was it like?
Well, if you ask people who love

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me, they hated it.
They hated it 'cause you were

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dying, I.
Was dying, even though it was a

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character and they knew it was a
character, They hated watching

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me die every night.
That would be really hard, yeah.

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So you're saying you were good
at it?

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I was very good at dying.
Yeah.

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Was it weird?
Was it weird to act like you're

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dead?
Were you on the stage for a

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while?
So I was on the stage every

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minute of the show, OK?
And then I die.

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On I die.
But the way it was written is I

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only have to be dead for about.
I don't know, a few minutes and

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then I break the 4th wall and
talk to the audience.

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Oh.
OK, OK.

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Gotcha.
It's like the dead person on

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stage, like the ghost or
whatever.

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Well, you're alive today.
I am fully.

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Goodness.
Fully alive.

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I mean, do you feel alive?
I feel very alive.

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OK, good.
Good.

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Good.
I I don't want to assume

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anything.
You know, sometimes we have

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worse days.
I can tell that you're breathing

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and you're alive before me.
Uh.

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Which is great, because if you
weren't, it would be super

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awkward like.
I look alive, right?

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Yeah.
You do look like it would be

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really awkward to be like a
Bernie or weekend at Bernie's

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like podcast style.
I don't know if that would go

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over very well, I.
Think that would not go over

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well?
Dead air.

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So I actually wanted to tell
you, I'm going to tell you some

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stories about some folks, OK,
Who?

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And this is this one is about a
woman who actually woke up one

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morning and felt off.
She felt off, yeah.

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As we do, as we do sometimes, we
sometimes feel off, You know, we

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wake up, maybe we didn't sleep
well, whatever makes sense.

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Aside from having bipolar
disorder, which she had been

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managing through prescriptions
and everything, like, for her

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entire life, this woman was like
in her 60s.

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Everything about her life was
normal.

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She was a homemaker.
And she, you know, kind of

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shrugged this feeling off
feeling for eight months, but

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she finally realized that she
could not continue.

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Feeling this way?
Yeah, this way.

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And so she went to a
psychiatrist.

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She was complaining of
depression, anxiety and she did

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not want to socialize.
Sir, can I interrupt for a

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second?
I have a question.

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Does she have was?
Did she live by herself?

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Do you know?
She was a homemaker.

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She did not.
She had a husband.

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She had a husband.
And I'm assuming at that age she

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probably, maybe she had a couple
of kids in the house, but like

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probably they were all grown.
OK, and so she's like, do you

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think feel like she's just
trying to silently deal with her

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offness?
Yeah, Yeah.

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I mean like there are a lot of
questions that can come in, you

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know at that point in in their
her life like potentially empty

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nester what's my purpose Like
these are questions that can

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definitely come up, but there's
more, it's more than just that.

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So she goes, and so she.
Goes and and she's complaining

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of, you know, I don't even want
to socialize.

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I don't have an appetite.
I'm depressed, I have anxiety.

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She's lost a ton of weight and
has, you know, even less

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interest in keeping up with the
house like that was her.

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That's been her job really is a
a homemaker and so she doesn't

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even keep up the household.
She doesn't want to.

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She has poor self-care.
So she's not, you know, taking

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showers.
She's not brushing her hair.

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She isn't really changing her
clothes sounds.

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Like full on depression.
Super, super depressed.

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She's not eating.
I like I said, she lost her

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appetite.
She has ideas and ideations of

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like worthlessness, pessimistic
view of the future,

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forgetfulness and like.
Also her motor skills were

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declining.
So like her handwriting, like

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just doing like fine motor
skills, it was really starting

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to decline.
Weird.

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And this is all just this.
She wakes up one day and start

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and this is all starting.
Yes, yeah.

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And and it's like it's one thing
if you are depressed and like

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depression can make you feel
this way, but like her, even her

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fine motors, her motor skills
were off, which is bizarre.

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And she's as the time's going on
like later into the eight

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months, she's starting to have
these like nihilistic,

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nihilistic delusions.
AKA she doesn't give a fuck

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about anything and she didn't
believe in anything.

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Like nothing, including the
existence of her body parts and

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the existence of her family
members.

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Wait, what?
I knew you were gonna say that.

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She started believing in the
nonexistence of her body parts.

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Yes, the nonexistence of her
body parts like like and and the

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nonexistence of her family
members.

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And I'm not talking about like I
don't like you.

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I'm.
Ignoring you, you.

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Don't exist to me.
Yeah, like, you know, when

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you've had like one of those
fights like or or disagreements

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maybe with, you know, a sibling
or a roommate or a significant

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other and you're like, I'm just
not going to say anything.

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I'm just going to go my own
separate way, just even because

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we live together.
But like, I'm just going to do

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my own thing.
I know they're there.

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Of course, you know, I'm just
pretending like they're not, You

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know, it's it's acting child.
Yes, Sure, sure.

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This is not what we're talking.
About just pull on like you

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don't.
I know.

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I know nothing of you.
I, like you, are not here.

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You in front of me are not here.
Am I asking too many questions?

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If I say how do we know she's
feeling this way because she

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telling somebody?
Yes.

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So she yes, she is vocal about
this.

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Vocal.
About yeah and and we'll get on

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like as as the story goes on and
her story goes on you'll you'll

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find out a little bit more.
So she just straight up did not

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believe her family was even
alive and in addition.

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Meanwhile, living with them.
Yes, yes, she sees her family,

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yes.
But like, it's like not

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computing, like these people are
not alive.

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They're not even here.
Oh God, OK.

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So we're talking about there's
something going on upstairs to

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make her feel this way.
Full on delusions.

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This is not just depression,
right?

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Yeah, right.
So in addition to that, her

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family's not even, you know,
alive.

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They're not even here.
She felt like she was missing

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these body parts, like,
different body parts.

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And she also was believing that
she was incredibly poor, like

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didn't have any money.
I don't know where she makes the

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jump mentally that, like, these
people don't exist.

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Oh, and I'm poor.
It's like, well, you're feeling

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like you're not really even
here.

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What the fuck?
Yeah, it's so confusing.

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So confusing.
She was even believing that the

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house that she lived in was
going to collapse any day.

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And everyone this is where like
clearly there's something going

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on because other people were
living in the house.

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She believed that anyone who was
living in the house was going to

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die because the the house is
going to collapse.

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But she also.
Already believed there was

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nobody in the house.
Yeah, yeah.

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Like nobody was even there.
OK.

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So over a a period of time she
started to refuse food and she

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was considering herself already
dead.

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So she thought that she was
already dead and she stopped

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eating.
OK do you think she's just

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thinking I this with the way I'm
just done I've got a I'm just

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I'm done so.
She stops eating.

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It was like, I don't even need
food.

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Oh.
'Cause she thinks she's dead.

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00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:03,960
Yes, I don't need food
assistance.

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Now she believes she's dead, She
thinks.

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Why am I?
Eating.

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00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,360
Yes.
Holy fuck, OK.

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Why am I even eating like
there's no there's no reason for

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it.
Well, because I'm dead.

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You're.
Dead.

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You don't need to eat.
Yeah, the dead.

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The dead don't need to eat.
So Oh my God.

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It was getting so bad.
And her delusions were becoming

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even worse.
She wasn't speaking.

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She stopped speaking too.
She was mute.

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She was, like, basically mute.
OK, well, she's dead.

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00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:30,960
She's dead.
Exactly.

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She's dead.
Refused to eat and she had

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rigidity in her limbs, so like
her limbs were almost like rigor

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mortising.
Oh my.

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God, they're like like they
wouldn't really move.

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Remember she wasn't able, like
her motor skills were starting

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to suffer before, but now we're
getting towards the end of that

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like 8 month time period and her
symptoms are getting worse.

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So oh, and she also was having
like incontinence issues.

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So she wasn't using the
restroom.

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She was, you know, going #1 #2
like it was just happening.

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00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,040
And it's like she wasn't
recognizing that it was

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happening.
Oh, gotcha.

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00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,520
Yeah.
So her family, after a month of

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00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:18,040
this, like extreme behavior,
were like, hmm, maybe

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something's wrong here.
No.

231
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,040
Maybe we should be doing
something.

232
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,040
It's like, yeah, maybe you
should have been doing something

233
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,440
like 8 months ago friends.
You think?

234
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,160
Yeah, yeah.
Like when she's like start.

235
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,080
I don't know when I start, OK, a
lot of the symptoms at first was

236
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,880
like.
A lot of the symptoms at first

237
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,440
very much seemed like
depression.

238
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,440
Depression, yes, which, you
know, bipolar disorder, like

239
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,720
there's a lot of depression that
ends up happening and that's

240
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,320
kind of an A shitty norm, right,
That a lot of people could

241
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:51,960
potentially go through.
That's like normal.

242
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,080
But like once you start losing
your fine motor skills and like,

243
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:57,640
I don't know, I would think, is
there a stroke?

244
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,960
Is there a brain issue here?
Or you start thinking you don't

245
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:01,440
have an arm.
Yes, yeah.

246
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:02,800
Like.
This.

247
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,880
Isn't this Isn't mom just being
crazy a?

248
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,960
Little red flag, yeah.
Like, no, you're dead.

249
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,840
OK, Mom.
Like, what are you smoking?

250
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,880
Oh, you're not smoking anything
'cause you believe you're dead.

251
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,160
Like this is a problem.
So they finally admit her to a

252
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,240
psychiatric facility after a
month of, like, the extreme

253
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,320
behaviors.
So like one I would say this

254
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,760
probably could have been fixed
potentially earlier on if if

255
00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,440
they would have brought her in
to a psychiatrist or to a

256
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,280
doctor.
Let's just say, like her, her

257
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,000
limbs are starting to like rigor
mortis.

258
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,160
Like that's a problem, you know?
Yes, I'm this.

259
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,040
I'm yes, but like, speechless.
Like why this wasn't being

260
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,760
addressed sooner.
Well, people don't listen,

261
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,520
right?
Like, I'm sure because she had

262
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,800
bipolar disorder for so many
years, there was already a

263
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,240
stigma.
Like, maybe her family's like,

264
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,720
she's just being extreme or like
dramatic or whatever.

265
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,600
Who knows?
I don't know.

266
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,200
I just know that this is a case
of what I'm going to be talking

267
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,440
about.
So this woman goes into this

268
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,040
facility and they have to
examine her because she's having

269
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,040
rigid, you know, limbs.
She's not using the restroom.

270
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,480
She's not speaking.
You know, she's had, she has

271
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,120
lost all control of, like, you
know, any kind of functions in

272
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,920
her.
And she's also like incredibly

273
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,040
malnourished.
She's not talking.

274
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,000
Anyway.
At this point, right.

275
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,680
So they have to make sure that
like, everything's OK with her

276
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,400
body because it could be like
some kind of, you know,

277
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,640
something like a stroke or
something, right.

278
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,720
So nothing about her is normal.
She's rigid.

279
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,040
She's not even using the rat
restroom and she's having, she's

280
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:52,080
having this physical examination
and they look at her, she's

281
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,240
really pale.
Well, yeah, of course.

282
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,760
Right.
That makes sense.

283
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,480
Yeah.
She's dehydrated, makes sense.

284
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,000
She's not eating.
She's having like edema, like

285
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000
pitting edema.
So you like, you know, when you

286
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,720
push down on someone's skin,
that means like, there's a lot

287
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,480
of fluid retention and like
something is not working.

288
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,120
Like their kidneys and stuff are
not working well.

289
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,320
So when you push into the skin,
the skin does not bounce back,

290
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,520
it the imprint just kind.
Of remains.

291
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,520
There, yes, remains there.
So these are not normal things.

292
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,240
She when they were like she was
emaciated, like super, super

293
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,520
skinny.
When they were examining her

294
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:40,000
mentally, she had no affect, was
not talking.

295
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,320
All of her limbs were were, you
know, rigid.

296
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,680
And she was incredibly, like,
negative.

297
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,840
So they tested her blood.
Her blood wasn't normal because,

298
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,480
oh, I don't know, she wasn't
eating right.

299
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,040
Had low, like, vitamin levels
and stuff.

300
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,280
What I'm trying to say is like,
she was not in good shape at all

301
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,640
at this point.
And what they were looking at

302
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,280
was, OK, well, you have severe
depression because you're

303
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,440
bipolar.
That must be what's going on.

304
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,160
So they started doing like
basically electric current

305
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,280
therapy to try to shock her
into, you know, normality.

306
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,240
And it actually started to help.
And they started to give her

307
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,040
medications and stuff because,
oh, I don't know, she was

308
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,160
actually in a place that like
gave a shit and you know, and

309
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,560
she ended up coming out of it.
But that once they were done,

310
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,480
like she came out of like this
depression and this weird

311
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,200
thought process.
She talked to him and she said I

312
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,440
I felt like I was like the
living dead.

313
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,320
I felt like I was walking around
and I was actually dead, which

314
00:16:53,320 --> 00:17:00,720
is insane.
So we so we find out through

315
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,960
this, they diagnose her with a
thing called Cotard's Syndrome

316
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,040
or Cotard's Delusion.
It's also known as The Walking

317
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:16,079
corpse syndrome and it's a very,
very rare mental disorder.

318
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,400
Oh, it's all mental.
It's.

319
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,359
All mental, but as we know the
mental disorders, it can have a

320
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,880
physical reaction.
Or the brains we've talked about

321
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,880
before are so powerful.
Yes, they they manifest.

322
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,240
They can make physical things
happen.

323
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,520
Yes, your brain is powerful.
100%, yeah.

324
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600
And and that's that's basically
what we find out with Cotard's

325
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,320
syndrome or Cotard's delusion.
I kind of like the the name of

326
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,920
walking corpse syndrome because
that's really how these people

327
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,720
feel.
But these it's a, it's really a

328
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,280
delusional belief.
And these people actually

329
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,400
believe that they are dead, that
they don't exist, that like

330
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,880
they're like putrefying and they
don't have any blood in their

331
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,680
body.
They don't have any internal

332
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,880
organs like our last lady.
She didn't believe that she was.

333
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,080
She had any limbs.
I mean, I can't even comprehend.

334
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,680
I can't even comprehend this.
I know.

335
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,000
It sounds horrifying.
It is.

336
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,040
Horrifying.
Yeah.

337
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:27,560
You just wake up one day and
you're like, OK, I'm no longer

338
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:28,200
alive.
What?

339
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,680
The fuck?
Where do you think you are?

340
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,040
Like what do you?
Oh my God, so many questions.

341
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,240
Yeah, so.
OK, so so she's so she's still

342
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,480
in the hospital, they're getting
her to eat all of this stuff and

343
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,040
she's talking to them now.
She.

344
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,680
Spoke she was speaking to them
because she, you know she's in a

345
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,640
psychiatric facility so she had
had the electric current like

346
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,040
therapy and then they also put
her on medications and so

347
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,840
between like talk therapy the
ECT and which is electric

348
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,120
current therapy and the
medications that they put her on

349
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,440
on and then they started you
know she had to eat.

350
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,280
So like even having nutrients in
your body might make it, does it

351
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,360
does make your brain react
better function.

352
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:18,840
It needs food.
It needs food in order to

353
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,920
function.
So she's able to talk and say,

354
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,080
like, this is how I felt.
I felt like this is what was

355
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,280
going on.
And they said, Oh my God, you

356
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,760
had this, like, really rare
syndrome, The Walking corpse

357
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,120
syndrome.
Yeah.

358
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:36,480
And it's so when people believe,
like, they're believing that

359
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,000
they don't have any blood,
sometimes they don't have limbs,

360
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,920
They don't have internal organs.
They're not actually, like,

361
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,280
alive.
Like, I kind of think and this

362
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,480
is like where the crazy part in
my brain happens.

363
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,160
Like if you wake up one day and
you're like, OK, I'm feeling

364
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,280
really off.
Oh, this must be what death is

365
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,240
like.
This is I'm dead.

366
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:05,920
Like I could see that.
You could feel like you are dead

367
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,560
and everyone around you either
you're in hell or you're like

368
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,520
you're you're in some kind of
purgatory.

369
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,480
Oh, like you're like, oh, I died
and so this is me after death.

370
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,320
Yes, yeah.
This is just what death is like

371
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,720
and like.
And then so you're trying to

372
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,400
function like do the normal
things, but like, OK, like, I

373
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,000
don't know, we've seen movies
about it, right?

374
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,200
Like The Sixth Sense.
The Sixth Sense.

375
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,520
Like, spoiler alert, Yeah, he
doesn't even know he's dead, but

376
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,160
he's still, like, moving through
life as if he's alive.

377
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,520
He doesn't realize that he's
dead, but eventually he does

378
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:46,400
realize like, Oh my gosh, I did
die.

379
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,120
And I've been coming to this
kid.

380
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,040
Like all this time.
The kid knows that I'm dead, but

381
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,960
I have to realize it myself.
This is the exact opposite of

382
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,440
that.
So this is where you feel like

383
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,600
you're dead and you're really
actually not you're you just

384
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,760
feel.
But I could understand how if

385
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,080
you're in a specific like
thought process or mind like

386
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,200
frame of mind where you could
get confused about it.

387
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,440
Is this you should say this is
really, really rare.

388
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,480
Incredibly rare, yeah.
It's.

389
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:24,400
It's not even in the DSM which
is the diagnostic.

390
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,560
It's it's the way that you what
is it?

391
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,800
It's not like.
It's not like the Encyclopedia

392
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,760
of Disorders.
It's the encyclopedia of

393
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,640
disorders.
Yeah.

394
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,080
Yeah.
Of like, mental disorders.

395
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,360
It's not even in there because
it's so rare.

396
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,760
It doesn't happen very often.
And actually in 1880, there's a

397
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:47,680
neurologist and psychiatrist,
Jules Cotard, which is what this

398
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,040
is named after.
He actually called this

399
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,880
condition the delirium of
negation.

400
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,800
So and it's a syndrome that like
every syndrome has like

401
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840
differing levels of severity,
right.

402
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,080
So like a mild case might be
like self loathing, while as a,

403
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:14,520
you know a more severe case is
like Our Lady that we start

404
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,000
started talking about where
she's just like I don't even

405
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,160
exist.
It's it's like an extreme form

406
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,600
of depression.
There's a case that he actually

407
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,720
had, which is what introduced
him to to this idea of Cotard's

408
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,480
delusion where they call her
Mademoiselle X.

409
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:40,440
She is a woman who denied once
again the existence of parts of

410
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:46,240
her body and her need to eat, So
she thought that she was

411
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,160
actually condemned to death and
in eternal damnation, which

412
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:56,760
sounds a lot like being in a
purgatory, Purgatory.

413
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:57,880
Oh my God, I couldn't think of
the word.

414
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,840
So she was in eternal damnation,
purgatory, and she couldn't die

415
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,800
a natural death.
So she did not experience a

416
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,440
natural death like everyone
else.

417
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:17,280
She was just kind of The Walking
Dead, like a walking corpse in

418
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,040
purgatory.
And so once again didn't decided

419
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,840
to not eat, she didn't want to
eat anymore and she actually,

420
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,040
this is pretty sad.
She did die of starvation

421
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,440
because they didn't understand,
you know, in the 1800s like what

422
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,160
this was.
And a question as I was like

423
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,400
writing the episode and
researching on this, like, I

424
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,560
kept on thinking how much of
this is like a mild form of

425
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,960
depression initially and then it
just gets worse and worse.

426
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,560
And like a lot of times, you
know, one of the most deadly

427
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,680
psychiatric disorders is
anorexia and bulimia because

428
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:59,480
people will kill themselves.
It's it's so deep ingrained into

429
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,240
their brain.
It's it's deadly.

430
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,880
And So what I wonder is, are
these extreme cases of

431
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,720
depression that have gone, gone
unchecked, you know, And so then

432
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:11,920
people are like, why I'm so
depressed?

433
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,680
Why am I going to even eat?
The difference with Cotard's

434
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,240
delusion is that these people
literally believe that they are

435
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,160
not alive.
Like, you know, someone who has

436
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,400
depression is like, oh, I just
don't want to wake up today.

437
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,800
These people don't even believe
they went to bed.

438
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,400
They don't even believe they
went to sleep.

439
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,080
Like they don't even believe
that they're alive to wake up.

440
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,800
Like it's just it's such a mind
Bender.

441
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,440
So like I said, it's not even in
the the DSM, which I have it

442
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,560
down in my notes here that it's
the Diagnostic and Statistical

443
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,240
Manual of Mental Disorders in
DSMDSM.

444
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:57,320
So there are different stages
that this disorder has, which is

445
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:04,400
the germination stage.
And these are depression, you

446
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,640
know, they're of varying
degrees.

447
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,040
Then we also have the blooming
stage, which is where, and this

448
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,600
is when something is given
enough time, when this like

449
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,240
disorder is given enough time to
bloom into, it's fucked up Ness.

450
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,200
The blooming stage is the full
development of this actual

451
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,040
syndrome, the delusions of them
not even existing.

452
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,080
And then the chronic stage is
where there are it's these

453
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,840
continued severe delusions with
combined with psychiatric

454
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,840
depression where we met our
first lady who was in her 60s

455
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,760
and she was like rigid and lost
a bunch of weight and wasn't

456
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,600
even talking.
So it's like it starts off as

457
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,240
depression and then it's somehow
morphs into this.

458
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,760
I'm not alive anymore.
Do we know what triggers it?

459
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,760
We do, yeah.
Yeah.

460
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,640
So it's it's some it's it's an
area in the brain, which I'll

461
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,240
get to, but it's like a form of
distort distorted reality.

462
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,400
Right.
So there's another like, I I

463
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,160
love the cases because I just
think it's fascinating.

464
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,000
These people are like, it's
insane to me that these people,

465
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,640
you know, believe what they
believe.

466
00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,720
I think it's fascinating that
it's not in the book.

467
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,840
Like if we if we know that this
is a thing, we have documented

468
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,520
cases of it, and we definitely
define the degrees of its

469
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,400
severity.
I can't believe it's not in the

470
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,400
book.
I mean like there's the book is

471
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,720
really like the standard and the
these are if if you're looking

472
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,000
or talking to a patient or
something, you're like oh,

473
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,520
depression, OK.
These are like the main things,

474
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,880
the main symptoms.
It's almost like a specialist,

475
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,480
right?
Like so if you have some kind of

476
00:26:54,480 --> 00:27:00,760
form of cancer, let's say you go
to, you know a general in your

477
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,360
state cancer, you know, facility
cancer hospital.

478
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,400
Well, if you have a really rare
form of cancer, you would go to

479
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,000
a different to.
A specialist.

480
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400
Yes, exactly so, which would
make sense.

481
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,360
This is like a incredibly
specialized, so I don't know if

482
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:23,280
they have anything like a
addendum to the the DSM, but

483
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,360
this is so rare that it's like
it's not worth putting in there

484
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,960
in the DSM.
And really, is it even worth it

485
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,520
in general because we don't even
use books anymore.

486
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,360
So you know, like you can just
probably look it up on the.

487
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,000
Database.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's go to

488
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,000
the database for it.
But it is, it's crazy that there

489
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,840
are.
So there are more cases of this

490
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,480
than you one would think.
How many are there do you know?

491
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,720
I don't know the, I don't know
the exact number.

492
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,000
It's like we're not talking
about like 10% of the population

493
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,680
that gets this we're talking
about.

494
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,240
Very small point something.
Yes, not even like, probably not

495
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,040
even 1%.
I'm sure that there are, there

496
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,560
is literature that does have,
but once again, how do you, how

497
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,200
do you differentiate between
depression, extreme depression

498
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,680
and this?
Delusion of this.

499
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,280
Yeah, because they kind of, they
kind of cross paths.

500
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,200
And you could call one.
Yeah.

501
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,440
So I'm just gonna go into a
couple of of stories, which one

502
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:33,560
of them is, is a teenager that
had this and this girl, She

503
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,040
actually spent three years
thinking that she was dead.

504
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,280
Three years.
Yeah.

505
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,520
Wow.
She believed she was from

506
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Alabama and she believed that
she was dead for three years and

507
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,160
ultimately she had.
There was something that

508
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:58,200
actually helped her, which was
not not necessarily medication,

509
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,280
although medication was.
Part of it was Disney films that

510
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,760
made her feel like more alive
for some reason.

511
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,280
So it does.
This disorder does have links to

512
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,000
depression and schizophrenia.
So people who who tend to suffer

513
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,960
with extreme bouts of depression
as well as schizophrenia tend to

514
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,240
be more prone to have these
delusions.

515
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,760
So she it was actually, and
normally it's caused by some

516
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,040
kind of extreme event in
someone's life.

517
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,520
So hers was, her parents got
divorced when she was 14.

518
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,200
And she said that one day she
was just like sitting in English

519
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,560
class and had this really weird
feeling that she didn't exist.

520
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,800
She's just sitting in the middle
of English class and just was

521
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,720
like, yeah, I feel like I'm not
here.

522
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,880
And she actually like she had
gone home.

523
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,160
And later on she had thought
about visiting a graveyard

524
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,960
because she just wanted to be
close to other people who were

525
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,520
also dead because she felt like
she was like the odd man out in

526
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,640
this world of the living.
And it kind of went away a

527
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,120
little bit.
But then the feelings came back,

528
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,000
and she just once again, like
our girl in the beginning, could

529
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
not shake this feeling.
And she said that she actually

530
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,960
would fantasize about having,
like, picnics in graveyards.

531
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,160
And she spent a lot of times
watching a lot of time watching

532
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,200
horror films because seeing
zombies made her feel like she

533
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,280
was more relaxed, like she was
with, like, family or like

534
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,320
someone who was like her.
Isn't that crazy?

535
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,600
Oh my God.
So it's actually two years

536
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,120
before she finally was like, OK,
maybe I should see a

537
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,520
psychiatrist for this.
And the thing that's

538
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,200
questionable about a lot of
these of these cases is like,

539
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,560
you know, are these people
saying these things to their

540
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,440
family members or to their
friends?

541
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,080
Or are they just like living in
this delusion?

542
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,920
And in her case, she was living
in this delusion and not saying

543
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,400
anything to anyone, so.
Which is just crazy like I I

544
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,160
mean, I I don't even know what
that looks like.

545
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,320
Like, what does that look like
when you have someone who feels

546
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,320
that way?
Is living in that life with a

547
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,760
family who has no clue as to
what's happening?

548
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,480
Like what does that even look?
Like.

549
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:29,040
It's I, I It's fascinating that
it can go so long without being

550
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,120
addressed.
Yes, yeah.

551
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,400
Yeah, it and well, OK.
And here's like, a question that

552
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,920
I was having as I was like,
reading all these, like, studies

553
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,240
and and stories.
If you're interacting in your

554
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,000
normal life, like, let's say I'm
feeling, you know, a little

555
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,880
depressed or I'm feeling a
little anxious or whatever I

556
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,080
might.
I would probably talk to my

557
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,760
friends or my family about it if
you feel like you're dead.

558
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,800
Who is there to talk to?
Yeah, well, why?

559
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,960
Why wouldn't you just say
something?

560
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,720
But you're right.
You actually have the nail on

561
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,320
the head.
If you feel like you're dead

562
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,600
already, who is there to talk
to?

563
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,040
They're not going to get it
anyway.

564
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,640
You're dead.
Right.

565
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,000
It's like wasting your time.
I didn't even think of that

566
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,960
being a reason why you wouldn't
come out with like, hey, I kind

567
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,920
of feel like I'm dead.
Exactly.

568
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,520
But it's like it's like almost
like it's not even worth it, I

569
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,360
guess in their in their their
thought process.

570
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,920
So she went and saw a
psychiatrist and she was very

571
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,200
quickly diagnosed with cotards
or like The Walking corpse and

572
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,080
syndrome.
And she's like, Oh my gosh, OK,

573
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,960
it's good to know that this is a
thing that exists.

574
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,440
And she actually says OK, well
the reason I came back was one

575
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,480
therapy.
Probably some medication in

576
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,480
there too and watching Disney
films.

577
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,640
I just, I again, it's
fascinating that she thinks

578
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,040
she's dead, but she has the
wherewithal to go talk to a

579
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,240
therapist about it, 'cause she
know there's something wrong,

580
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,320
that that dichotomy is very
weird.

581
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,320
It's.
I mean, the brain is insane

582
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,280
nuts.
Yeah.

583
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Like, how how can you have both?
But.

584
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,960
But you're already not making
any sense, right?

585
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,320
Like you're already not.
You're already delusional, so

586
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,240
like the normal laws and rules
that we live within or like the

587
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,720
the normal thought processes
that we have are non existent.

588
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Exactly.
That's why I can't understand

589
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,320
it.
That's why.

590
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,240
Well, that's why people, I guess
can't really understand mental

591
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:35,440
issues, issues, because you you
can't understand that.

592
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,080
You don't experience it.
No, no.

593
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,920
Like like there was I told you
about the homemaker.

594
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,440
There's also another guy he's
called in this case in this

595
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,160
paper Mr. B, and he was a 65
year old like retired teacher.

596
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:57,720
He was pretty well adjusted
before this onset of Cotard's

597
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,440
disease or syndrome.
He didn't have any history of

598
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,560
mental illness or family mental
mental illness, which is like

599
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,280
kind of sets apart from the
other two that cases that we

600
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,719
talked about.
He did smoke cigarettes and you

601
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,000
know, was addicted to it for
like 30 years.

602
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:25,080
But he did start to present with
an onset of mental illness once

603
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,840
he's quit smoking.
Interesting.

604
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,080
So his mental stability was not.
And once again, we talk about

605
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,040
there's some kind of trigger
typically with these people.

606
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,560
That last teen, her parents were
divorced with I think the

607
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,719
homemaker.
Our first case, that woman

608
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,199
didn't have, she was a
homemaker.

609
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,400
She didn't have children in the
house anymore.

610
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520
And then you start to question,
what is my purpose?

611
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,040
Who am I?
What am I that can cause you to

612
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,960
become depressed Like OK, well,
I worked all my life.

613
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:00,960
That makes.
Sense, You know, Yeah.

614
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Yeah, so he starts being pretty
stressed out.

615
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,240
And initially his symptoms were
like he was sad, depressed

616
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:16,640
again, and in the early morning
it would be worse.

617
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,920
He also wasn't socializing, he
had more anxiety, he wasn't

618
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,760
sleeping as much and he didn't
really have much of an appetite.

619
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:31,080
Now, sleep and appetite.
That's going to fuck your brain

620
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,160
up anyway, right?
So you're making a bad situation

621
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:41,480
worse.
Then he increases to ideas of

622
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,000
like worthlessness,
hopelessness, feeling like he's

623
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,320
like sinful, guilty.
And as once again, this is like

624
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,400
a depression on a larger scale,
These people are feeling this

625
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,200
way, and it's getting worse and
worse and worse.

626
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,480
We're going through, like the
different stages of this

627
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:08,080
delusion.
So he has, let's see, delusions

628
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,040
of catastrophe.
Everything's like going to end,

629
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,960
coming to an end.
He was nihilistic.

630
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,080
He didn't believe in anything.
He didn't believe anything

631
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,960
existed.
He believed he was really poor,

632
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,280
just like the first woman.
That's a weird one.

633
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,120
Yeah, 'cause why would you even
like, why does money?

634
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,600
Yeah, why does money mean
anything?

635
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,360
But once again, it's like that
depression, like worthlessness,

636
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,640
that hopelessness feeling
potentially, I don't know.

637
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,640
And then he believed that, like,
everything was out to get him.

638
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:45,040
So like feelings of like
persecution, he would verbalize

639
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:50,000
that his organs were not working
anymore and that his brain

640
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,040
stopped functioning and that his
house once again.

641
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,680
This is another house issue.
His house developed cracks and

642
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,320
was going to fall down.
Why does it matter if you're

643
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,120
already dead?
That's the delusion speaking,

644
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,200
right?
So a month before being admitted

645
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,200
to a psychiatric facility, he
had attempted suicide by hanging

646
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,200
himself, but he was saved.
So his suicide note actually

647
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,880
said that he wanted to kill
himself because he feared that

648
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,360
he was spreading a deadly
infection to people in his town

649
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,720
who might suffer from cancer
because of it, right?

650
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:34,320
It's like such a delusion.
He also started to believe in

651
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,240
these later stages before he
tried killing himself.

652
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,320
He believed that he was dead,
and he stopped eating,

653
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,520
completely stopped eating, and
he lost a ton of weight.

654
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,040
So over the next two months, he
attempted to end his life two

655
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,680
more times.
And after, I don't know, the

656
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,800
fucking third time, they finally
bring him into an inpatient

657
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,600
facility.
And when they examined him

658
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,960
physically, he had very similar.
He had hypertension,

659
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:16,080
malnutrition, he wasn't eating,
He had obstructive pulmonary

660
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,800
disease.
Like once he's having heart

661
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,840
issues because he's not eating
and he's stressed out and

662
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,040
probably because he was fucking
smoking for 30 plus years and as

663
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,040
far as his mental state was he
had a sad affect.

664
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,600
He was very agitated ideas of
hopelessness, catastrophe,

665
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:42,000
delusion, guilt, nihilism.
Because he was dead.

666
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,320
He felt like he was dead and he
did not have any kind of insight

667
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:53,240
to maybe there's something wrong
with my brain right He they

668
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:58,840
ended up giving him once again
therapy, ECT treatment, which is

669
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,240
the electric convulsive
treatment.

670
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,800
They started using muscle
relaxation to make his like

671
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,640
limbs a little bit more relaxed,
started feeding him and fuck.

672
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Turns out he ends up go, goes
through therapy, ends up feeling

673
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,360
fine once he starts dealing with
these issues.

674
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,760
So you know, every case these
people are basically believe

675
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,240
that they're, you know, they're
dead, so they're going to just

676
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,840
stop eating.
Unfortunately in Mademoiselle XS

677
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,640
case, she ended up dying.
This was in the 1880s.

678
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,080
So of course they're not going
to know very much about it, but

679
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,920
it's it's really a feeling of
distorted reality.

680
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:50,160
And there's actually, there was
another contemporary case where

681
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,160
there was a guy who was Scottish
whose brain was damaged in a

682
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,880
motorcycle accident.
So he had a motorcycle accident,

683
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,520
he had some kind of traumatic
brain injury and he started

684
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,360
feeling like this was not
reality.

685
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:08,480
He woke up and he didn't believe
he was living in reality because

686
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,200
he thought he was dead.
So in January of 1990, and he

687
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,640
was Scottish, he his mother took
him to South Africa and he was

688
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,720
convinced that he had been taken
to hell.

689
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,080
Instead of South Africa.
Oh my God, because of the heat,

690
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,040
because it was so hot there.
No.

691
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,320
So that's what confirmed it for
him and his delusion, and that

692
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,080
he had died of sepsis.
So he believed that he had died

693
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:41,640
of sepsis, which he had had
actually in his recovery of the

694
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,440
motorcycle accident.
He had a risk of that and they

695
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,200
kept on talking about it.
So it was like in his head

696
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,520
already that he would had was
had died of sepsis back then, or

697
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,480
that he had died from AIDS,
which he had read a story and

698
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:02,720
the Scotsman in like a journal
that someone with AIDS had died

699
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,920
of sepsis.
AIDS was huge in the 90s and

700
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,400
late 80s, right?
In the early 90s, late 80s, it

701
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:10,360
was a huge problem.
It was in in the news

702
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,920
everywhere.
And so he, like, borrowed all of

703
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,680
these stories and started
piercing them together as to why

704
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,120
he was dead in like in hell,
right?

705
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,840
Right, right.
So he thought he'd actually

706
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:30,280
borrowed his mother's spirit to
show him around hell and that

707
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,160
she was actually safe and asleep
in in Scott, Scotland.

708
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,360
So it's like these people are
almost, they're living these

709
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:42,280
delusions that make zero sense,
but it typically has to do with

710
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,720
the brain.
There is there are issues with

711
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,520
these people's brains that cause
them to have these delusions.

712
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:54,240
We know that like depression is
caused by, you know, issues

713
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,400
within the brain, right?
Like an imbalance.

714
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,600
But what they find is like
neurologically, it's thought to

715
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:07,320
be related to Capricus delusion,
which is where people believe

716
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,480
that everyone around them has
been replaced by imposters.

717
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,160
So it's actually the result of a
a neural misfiring in the

718
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,280
fusiform face area of the brain,
and that's the area that

719
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:28,240
recognizes faces and also in the
amygdala, which associates

720
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:32,120
emotions to a recognized face.
So they think that things are

721
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,240
like misfiring, and that's why
we're in this weird spot.

722
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:41,480
So this neural disconnection
actually creates a sense that

723
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:46,120
the face that they're observing
is not a face of a person that

724
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,400
actually belongs to.
And so they're unable to

725
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,800
recognize that, oh, you're Kevin
or you're alive, right?

726
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:56,720
Like.
Right.

727
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:59,600
Or maybe that I'm even a person.
Or that you're even a person,

728
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,400
Yes.
So there's a disconnection

729
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,560
between the the environment that
they're living in and what

730
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,560
they're experiencing.
So if sometimes if they see

731
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,720
their own face, they might not
like if they're looking in a

732
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,160
mirror, they might not associate
that that's their face or that

733
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:23,080
it's even a face at all.
There is a book by Oliver Sacks

734
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,600
called the and I might do an
episode on this, but it's called

735
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,360
The Man Who Mistook his Wife for
a Hat.

736
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,640
This man had a neurological
issue.

737
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,880
Oliver Sacks is a neurologist
and his his wife was or he was

738
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,600
unable to recognize.
He woke up, had a brain injury.

739
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,960
That's typically what happens.
And this guy looked and saw.

740
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,120
He's like, his wife is not a
wife anymore, It's just a hat.

741
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,200
He doesn't see his wife as a
person anymore.

742
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,280
So it's just like these weird
neurological like issues, right?

743
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,360
Fucking bizarre.
Bizarre.

744
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,200
So the Qatar syndrome is usually
encountered in people with

745
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,880
psychosis or like schizophrenia,
but also with depression that we

746
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,800
were talking about.
It can also happen with folks

747
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:12,440
who have a brain tumor or who
have had a traumatic brain

748
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,880
injury.
And typically the medical

749
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,920
literature indicates that this
syndrome is associated with also

750
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,160
lesions to the to the parietal
lobe.

751
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:28,880
So they a person who has Cotard
syndrome or The Walking Dead

752
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:37,760
whatever syndrome, they present
a greater like a higher level of

753
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,560
brain atrophy.
So their brain is shrinking

754
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,960
especially in the frontal lobe
when they do tests like it like

755
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,800
their actual physical areas that
are getting smaller and because

756
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,440
of that or or they're they're
just not working because of that

757
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,960
they're having these delusions
which is why you would do that

758
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:03,080
electric.
Therapy to stimulate it.

759
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just insane.

760
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,200
It's crazy.
And your your brain is

761
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,160
ultimately causing this
malformation.

762
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:14,760
Yes, yeah, it's it's A and it's
a misfiring.

763
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:20,040
It's either a misfiring but so
often times they do that you

764
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:26,600
know the therapy of electric
current and they will put people

765
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:32,680
on different you know drugs and
medications to try to help the

766
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:38,840
firing of of the brain and to
stop it from atrophying.

767
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:45,040
So if it it's kind of like like
if a person with who has like

768
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,360
weak kidneys you give them like
renal like you know medications

769
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,560
and their kidneys start
functioning same thing with the

770
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,400
brain.
So if they, if they're not

771
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,240
given, if, if these people are
not given therapy in the form of

772
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:10,440
talk therapy, medication and
electric, sometimes electric

773
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,080
therapy to stimulate these areas
of the brain, they will die.

774
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,960
Or sometimes they do kill
themselves, whether that's by

775
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:24,520
hanging, like our dude who was a
smoker or if it's through

776
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:25,920
starvation.
Sure.

777
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,720
And it kind of like made me
question how many folks who have

778
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:36,400
like anorexia, how many of those
people kind of have maybe have

779
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,560
these delusions because their
brains misfiring, so they just

780
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,000
stop eating, you know?
Yeah.

781
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,280
I mean, I guess we don't
necessarily know the reason.

782
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,760
I mean, if when we hear the
anorexia or bulimia, we think

783
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,680
it's because people see
themselves differently than.

784
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,040
I mean, I guess that it was a
it's a form of a misfire, right?

785
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,600
When I look in a mirror I see
this big fat fucking cow, when

786
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,600
in reality I'm not.
So I become bulimic or anorak

787
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,120
sick or whatever, right?
So I guess it's the same.

788
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,200
It's a delusion.
It's a.

789
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,920
Delusion.
It is a delusion.

790
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,040
So is it a delusion all the time
that someone thinks that they're

791
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,000
super fat?
Or is it that they think that

792
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,200
they're dead and they just
there's just like no point to

793
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,480
eating right?
I I didn't even think of that as

794
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,080
being an option, but that's
often times how some of these

795
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,960
people will die.
Aside from like killing

796
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,520
themselves, which once again, it
kind of puts you into a weird

797
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,400
brain loop.
You're like, but you already

798
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,680
know you're dead, so why are you
trying to kill yourself right?

799
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,120
Like that doesn't?
That's why it's difficult to.

800
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,720
Understand it's a.
Delusion.

801
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,440
Yeah, it's a delusion.
But this is actually like

802
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,080
they've had stories.
I read a book last No, this year

803
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,440
it was called The Vegetarian.
Great book, but the woman in one

804
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,200
of the main characters in the
book has I think this delusion,

805
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,080
but it's never spelled out in
the book.

806
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,560
But there are, you know,
instances of people in pop

807
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,320
culture who have had this.
One of them is there's a a black

808
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,560
metal band called Mayhem and
Morbid and one of the the lead

809
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:20,520
vocalist of it was Per Dead Olin
and people think that he had

810
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,520
Cotard syndrome.
His name was like was Per Olin

811
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:32,200
but he went by dead like in
quotations and they believe it

812
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,560
was caused by violent bullies as
a child like he was he actually

813
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,680
these bullies were so bad they
actually left him dead for

814
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,080
clinically dead for a short
period of time.

815
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,040
And he started after that
started developing like this

816
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:52,480
obsession with death and which
is why his stage name was death

817
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,920
And he had he like painted his
face because black metal they

818
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,800
always are so dramatic but he
had corpse paint on his face and

819
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,920
he often on stage with self harm
And among friends he just

820
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,720
started to become more and more
depressed more introverted and

821
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,080
ended up committing suicide in
1991.

822
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:21,640
There is also did you have you
ever seen the movie Schenectady

823
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,640
in New York.
OK so it's it was Charlie

824
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:29,520
Kaufman.
It was in 19 or sorry 2008 and

825
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:35,280
there is a character named Kaden
Cotard and he thinks Kaden

826
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,720
thinks that he is dying.
And so we see other examples of

827
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:45,000
Cotard syndrome in this movie
with scenes with him and his

828
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,240
daughter Olive, because she
starts to scream.

829
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,600
I don't have any blood in my
body.

830
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,520
And like, it's as the film goes
on, he's Cotard actually

831
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,280
disappears from the play that
he's writing about his own life

832
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,640
in the movie.
And he's portrayed by other

833
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,960
actors as he takes the role of a
cleaning lady.

834
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,440
So they're they're kind of like
doing this like weird, like

835
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,280
artsy way of explaining and
showing Qatar syndrome.

836
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,920
So if you ever wanted to see a
movie about it, it's that.

837
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,480
But yeah, I just thought, I
thought I would kind of switch

838
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,760
it up a little bit and talk
about like something strange and

839
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:23,560
very real in our world, 'cause I
know that we've had we at the.

840
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,320
One of the last once I did was
on aliens.

841
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,640
I felt like maybe I need to be
brought back to reality.

842
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,280
Yeah.
And talk about, like these

843
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,440
things that can very easily
change.

844
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,360
And within the brain, the brain
is astonishing.

845
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,840
And you, you just never know.
Like through an accident,

846
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,640
through somebody you know as a
child, like beating you up

847
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,280
through fuck.
Like your parents getting

848
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,760
divorced, stopping smoking.
You know, like.

849
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:58,040
Exactly.
These like small things can they

850
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,920
can totally trigger people.
It's fascinating.

851
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,320
The brain is just fascinating.
Yeah.

852
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,360
And it's important to powerful.
It's so powerful.

853
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,080
It's important to, you know, to
talk to people.

854
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,880
If you're feeling depressed,
like, we have pills for that,

855
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:19,560
like, you can take care of it.
You know, there's no reason to

856
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,560
get to that extreme stage of
depression where you're thinking

857
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,520
that you're literally dead.
Right.

858
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:27,960
It's like insane.
Right.

859
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:33,160
And the key there, though being
is that getting yourself out of

860
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,040
the delusion may not let you get
yourself out of it, which is why

861
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:41,640
it's important as a person
without the delusion is to pay

862
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,600
attention.
Absolutely, yeah.

863
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,240
To pay, yeah.
The people around pay attention

864
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:47,600
to the people that you love,
right.

865
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,200
If they're starting to withdraw,
like there's probably a problem

866
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,200
and and to pay, you know, if you
can't pay attention.

867
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,160
I mean, I don't fucking.
I don't think that someone who

868
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,800
thinks they don't have limbs,
like, is able to make sense of,

869
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,080
you know, maybe I'm a little
depressed, you know, like.

870
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,360
Exactly.
So it's important for us to

871
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,600
watch out for each other as
well.

872
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,760
It is.
It is Well, fascinating story.

873
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:11,640
Thanks.
Yeah.

874
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:12,880
Thanks.
Thank you.

875
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:15,800
I guess again, see you in a
couple of weeks.

876
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,080
Yes, and stay alive.
Stay.

877
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:18,680
Alive.
OK.

878
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:19,560
See ya.
See.

879
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:20,320
Ya bye.