Alan Turing - Killed By The Nation He Saved

0:03 Hello, bizarre story, friends, you've tuned in to the bazaar area, for we talked about the strange, the Absurd, the unknown, and things that are bizarre AF, I'm Kevin, I'm going to be your host for today's episode and as always, we ask that you keep an open mind, keep a skeptical layer but keep listening to those facts. As we take you on our newest Journey, Alan Turing, the man killed by the nation, he saved.

1:03 And to another episode and happy Pride Alicia. Happy Pride a lie. Yeah. Oh my God, I'm so happy this Pride look, I'm sorry. We look amazing. If we do say so ourselves. If I do say so myself honestly. Like I we were talking about this earlier as we were doing our makeup and stuff. Yeah I was telling Kevin how much Much I just wish every month where pride and we could dress like this and just have fun and be creative. We could be just the people, you know, give you the side. I uh there's such douche bags.

1:45 They just they do not appreciate our fabulousness exactly. We just haven't always been this to work and wouldn't be so fun on a conference call to have someone on the call. Yes, it'll be fun with you. I would be like, okay, you're interested in exactly half the time you like Oh cool. Another bro. And a Tech Fest or, like a douche bag like vest but like honestly, we look so cool. Right? So cool. I would want to know us. Yeah, I definitely want to know us and I know us, I still want it so hopefully you all are watching because we, we are all pried it out. Yes, we are spent a good ol long while Alysha help me with my eyeballs. Yeah, with that beautiful.

2:33 Rainbow whoosh swoosh. Yeah, yeah. What is like a writ? Maybe like a ribbon or something. Yeah, I love it or waves sparkly. Oh, my lips like, hey, big lips there. So you know what's great is when you go over to Kevin's house and he says, I think you need some like glitter on your lips. I have specific like glitter for your lips. Its micro you should put it on there. I'm like a horse. Definitely not. Well, cool. Well this is gay pride, last June. Yeah, the world is the celebrate pride. And, you know, I was going to do an episode about pride and let me know. It's not really bizarre doesn't really fit our theme, but I don't know.

3:21 We might talk about it someone. So what kind of get into it a little bit today? Yes. But we're going to start off by. I'm gonna ask you Alicia, have you? Ever heard of the Enigma machine. I have you have. Yes. I have heard of the Enigma machine ever heard of the bomba or the bombe machine? No, I don't think so. The Enigma machine wasn't that the, it was like, it helped out with codes for the World War 2. The Enigma machine was actually the machine. That was the one that the Germans used to build. That's right, it's a code. Yes. Okay. And they got a hold of it.

4:03 A hold of them and make them. Yes, that's right. Huh. And then the the bomba or the Bombay, what they call it? That's the one that broke the code. Oh I didn't know that. I didn't either honest. Okay. What honest I didn't know the name of it. Yeah but that was the name of it so we're going to talk about those machines little bit today and how they relate to a man who really saved the world from Pure hate. Oh my God. Ultimately yeah, seems Alan Turing. Now, this is this episode is going to be a bit of a twofer. Ooh, okay, a twofer. So it's gay pride month. So I did want to take the opportunity to talk about Alan and what a wonderful man he was and His absolutely horrendous and senseless death which will actually lead us to the second part of the episode where we're going to talk about the completely bizarre and incomprehensible way that people ultimately mask their hate and their judgment, and they're just staying and all that other shit that they hide behind their religions and rules and laws, and all that other stuff that helps them justify their nasty Behavior. Toward people so it's not going to be like super happy. But here's the thing that's important, it's important, it's what happened, it's what's happened in history and thank God not, thank God, thank God.

5:38 Will know, thank God that we can be who we are today, right? Amen. I mean you don't have to worry like right now, you know, we're Decked Out. Beautiful bright colors and can be whomever it is that we are. Yeah. And people don't have to worry about those things now for the most part. Yeah. Right. So let people be who they want to be free. Yeah. For the most part, it's more acceptable to be okay with that. Sure. Yeah, I guess yes, there are still fucking assholes in this goddamn world but maybe we're moving in the right direction. I think so. Oh yeah we are absolutely making progress. We are Okay, so start off by to highlighting Alan Turing. So who was Alan Turing was full name is Alan Matheson touring and he was born on June 23rd 1912 in London. Yeah, I was born in pride month.

6:37 Yeah. Now he was a British mathematician who made a lot of tremendous contributions in mathematics crypto analysis mathematical by law biology. I mean, shit that I'm like, hey, because like way over my head. Yeah, right, I want one now. We also made major contributions to what we now today, refer as like computer science cognitive Artificial intelligence, like the things that you was doing, we're cutting edge that really started.

7:17 Paving the way to allow us to start doing this stuff, artificial live, all of that stuff like he was a genius. The man, the man now he was a son of a civil servant. But he was educated in a very top private school, thankfully. So he wasn't, he wasn't stifled. Yeah, could have lost that mind to sure to being a garbage man or some whatever, right? Yeah. The able to use that. That's right. So I have a question about that, okay? He is and I know I'm getting too close to those questions but I do have a question.

8:00 He went to a prestigious private school. So how did he afford if his parents were? That's a really good question. I don't fully know the answer. I can only assume that people knew and appreciated his intelligence and he probably had a scholarship or something. Yeah. Okay then that makes sense. There he met a person named Christopher Markham. Okay. And he was a classmate Who also had a tremendous passion for mathematics. Besties. Well this was Allen's first and only as we know true love. Oh he was just madly in love with Christopher. Islands, love believe it or not was not reciprocated. But they were still, he's still really liked him. I mean that you know he is more like a friend because I don't think he was gay up in the slightest right. But Alan just thought the world of Christopher is so smart and just you know just felt like he was his match so he just never ever got over Christopher.

9:12 Oh my God I know it's a bit heartbreaking. Christopher died in 1930 and Alan was very, very affected by this. Like I said it was his true love and he never He never found. He could never find someone to replace him. Like that was just going to be his true love. And that was it. Yeah. So he was really, really affected by that. So Alan enters the University of Cambridge to study mathematics, in 1931. Excuse me, right after Christopher's death, and after graduating in 34, He was elected to a fellowship at King's College. And there he was in had a lot of recognition in his research and something called probable Theory, probability Theory, excuse me.

10:04 Now, I'm not going to go into what some of these things are. And I'm going to go into one of them and a little bit and we're all gonna be Barbie. Heads are gonna explode. So I'm not going to get too much into the weeds just to know that he's extremely smart, okay? So in 36, Touring seminal paper it's called was called on computable numbers with an application to the inside ins problem. Oh yeah. Yeah, that yeah. That makes sense. Oh my God. So much are sad. Yeah, so much sense that problem. Duh, well, we all know it. I know it inside its problem is cheese which shines probably in shiden in shiden. It's a German word.

10:47 It translate to the decision problem. Oh wait. Is that? At like Schroeder Schrodinger's cat. No, no, no. I think that's like, oh sorry, Alan. So it was recommended for publication in the American mathematical. Area by a guy named Alonzo Church. Who himself had just published a paper that reached the same conclusion as turing's, although it was a completely different method, but turns met turing's method, Had a lot of significance on science and Computing like it again.

11:29 A lot of the things that he was doing was like Forefront. That lot got a lot of scientists and a lot of things moving into the direction that we know of today. It's later that year touring moved to Princeton University to study for a PhD in, mathematical logic, Jesus, which he completed in 38. I mean really, I mean, okay. I do think that touring is like nerd alert. He's like, he's like, he's like a genius nerd alert, genius nerd alert, nerd alert really so I can't understand it. The only reason I'm making fun of us because I still don't know in this happen to like almost done with any of those words mean understood problem and that, exactly.

12:21 Okay. Now, all of this has, Zero bearing on the story, but I have to tell you what inside ins problem is. Oh my God. Please. No, please do so. I actually am interested. Okay. So inside in this problem and I had to rewrite this into a logical sentence and even The Logical sentence is going to be like, what the f did you ask a? I know. Yeah, right. Exactly, didn't do that here? It did not make any sense. Okay? Okay, okay, right cool. If oh yeah. Okay, here, it's just logic. Ok, so inside ins problem. Okay. Is the problem of finding an algorithm? Or a repetitive procedure.

13:08 Okay. That will yield a definite, yes, or no answer. After choosing the question of a class of questions in mathematics and formal logic. Just like your eyes glaze over here. Like, I was with you for the first three weeks. Okay. An algorithm. Yeah. So it's like, you're trying to trying to find this. Procedure that yields a yes or no. Yes or no. Yes or no? Yes, after you find a question in a class of questions in mathematics Or logical formal logic. Okay okay, so we're just going to leave it at that. Okay has I can't help you.

13:56 Okay, I can help you. I just said all of that. Just, again, to prove a point that he was brilliant that like an unfathomably intelligent. Yeah. Okay. Oh, so I wait, I actually do have another definition. Okay, was an effective method for solving the fundamental mathematical problem of determining. Ermine exactly, which mathematical statements are provable within a given formal mathematical system, which are not okay. They are, they're all about run-on sentences and it's like, can we use simpler words, you know, like do they all have to have like, you know, for constant like no, no, mathematical, blah, blah. It's like same math, math.

14:44 We don't know what you're saying. It's kinda too much. Us. So now I say all of this again not to educate everyone on mathematics because let's face it. 100% of us didn't even know what I said. Hmm. But I said, just how again to help articulate how genius he was now in 36. Turing had invented. This hypothetical Computing device. And it came to know, as the universal turing machine, the universal turing machine is last name. Okay. Now, after the second world war ended, he continued his research in this area, kind of building and incorporating and everything that he's has learned during the war now while he was working in, What's called the npl?

15:33 This National physical laboratory. He published a design for this other thing. It's called Ace automatic computing. an earring, which They said was really the first. Modern computer. So he really created the first personal computer. So that was, that was the universal turing. Machine was the computer? No, it's a different. It's a different. That's a whole nother. Okay? Something different. Yeah, just do Universal printing. All of these things and the universal one. Like it was just hypothetical was an actual machine. It was just a clever machine. That's right.

16:14 Okay, yeah, interesting. So then having to read having returned from the United States to his fellowship at King's College those in the summer. 38, he was working part-time for the British government's code and Cypher school when the second world war breaks out great. So 1939 teacups takes up a full role at Bletchley Park in buckinghamshire where for a time he led what they called The Hut. And this is where top-secret work was carried out. Out to decide, try to decipher military codes used by the Germans, and they were getting these codes and they were intercepting them, and they were deciphering them, and they were figured out how to decipher them. Well, just shortly thereafter or previously. The Polish government had shared with with Britain and France how they had successfully decoded these Enigma machines, right? Okay.

17:21 And the Machine that they were using to decipher because they were intercepting the communications well, The there's a small team of Polish mathematicians and they had intercepted an actual Enigma machine, and they were Fig trying to figure out the internal wiring. Okay, 138 a team devised, a code of breaking that machine and they called that machine, the bombuh. Okay. This is the bombuh the Mambo. Okay. It's the Polish word for ice cream and I don't know. Did it look like ice cream? I don't know. I don't know. I couldn't really ever find a good picture of a bomba. Yes, I don't know why they called it that.

18:01 Okay. Okay. Now it only worked because someone had intercepted figured out the Germans operating procedures, so, they knew what they needed to do to decrypt the message. Because when they were intercepting these, these transmissions in a way that they know, okay, well, this is this so I know how to decrypt it, okay? Well, come May 1940 somehow the Germans either figured out that they were decoding it or what but now they decide. Oh well, we're going to change the the, the site, The Cypher daily. Wow. So now every day we're going to change the thing that's going to decode it so that it's not like the same thing for a month or a week or, right? So now this bomber machine becomes useless doesn't work anymore.

18:50 Oh my God. So, they turn to this fellow codebreakers named Jordan Welshman. And he had another machine called, the bum bum bum bbo MBE. So that be OMB a because that's really not confusing. Thanks, Sid. Now this super cute, Peter was able to decode the German code even with a daily Cipher. It. Now if anyone has ever watched The movie. Huh about Alan. Turing. Played by Cumberbatch.

19:32 Benedict. Cumberbatch a match. and, They do a very good job about him working on creating this machine. That's the size of a wall, and it's very mechanical. Oh, sure. But it's so, Incredible. I'm not going to go into details. How I nygma works but Basically, you set these dials and by how it by you set, the dials, then it changed. Like when you press a g, it becomes a know. And it only becomes the Oh by the these two different settings and they're very complex complex. Well, he made a computer that would figure that shit out. So you don't have to actually like, do all of those steps just to write.

20:23 So they cause now they were starting to decode these messages on a daily basis. So, yes, It's like real time. Almost like real time news real-time like information. Yeah, they were getting exactly. Yeah, exactly, yeah, so he was critical critical in that. So Alan was still haunted by the loss of Christopher. And in a 1950 paper, he referred to research by some people that he knew in the UK. Touring starts going down a different path and he's saying there's an overwhelming statistical evidence of telepathy in the world. And he's starting to talk about how he there's overwhelming evidence of it that it exists.

21:18 This is where our boy Alan is coming straight into our world of the bizarre area. Exactly. So he's thinking that there's statistics Tickly significant data to show that there is such thing as telepathy now. How? And so then you go, this guy is so effing smart. How do you debate this? You like, right? It's not just some personal straight, right? Like he's not just saying that a scientist so I guess I guess from my perspective. Yeah. How do you debate it? But also where is his evidence coming from? Right. How's he getting this? We don't I couldn't find it. Shut up.

22:03 Okay, so then my little whole conspiracy has starts coming. Oh my God, I have a hat on, put conspiracy on it because yes, uh-huh. Yeah, he had to have had data. Okay. This is a scientist, exactly. He only lives with Day by data. How does he not have, like notebooks or notes or whatever? He did. I mean, I have no book right here. Yeah, I'm worried. I have a notebook all the time that I'm riding in Anytime we're doing episodes. Yeah, notes, upon notes, upon notes, and that's not scientific, you know? I mean, it's like informative, but it's not mathematically. It was like logic old by data. So, you know, ruled by Logic, ruled, by data, ruled by like this. Yeah.

22:49 This this other Yeah, he was real. That's he was ruled by science. That's all. That's what he lived and breathed at exactly. So we wouldn't just say something exists, out of a whim. No right? No. He also like were people like, oh my God, because he's also like, you know, basically saving the British people and like, you know, the allies with this machine, like, maybe we should listen to him. I was like, meh, he's a little crazy. He's crazy crazy. In a bad way. This way, But everything else like when he builds us like war, machines were totally cool. That exactly. Yes. We see this in the world, he's great. Yeah, yeah. And so, then he also, they also found a remark that he wrote Somewhere that he says, you know, once the quote is quote, once one has accepted them telepathy. It doesn't seem a very big step to believe in ghosts, so now he's going down this hole.

23:48 Okay? Okay, so wait a second. Said them the meaning telepathy or them, meaning what? I don't know because I know that we have in the past and we will in the future continue to talk about alien abductions and how aliens seem to have like some kind of telepathy or telekinetic like thing exactly. So is that the them like them for telepathy? Doesn't make any sense, right? Right so maybe right so maybe yeah I mean I could go down a thousand rabbit. Oh my God. Maybe yeah yeah yeah. Okay.

24:33 So like ghosts right. Mmm. So Alan was actually remarkably open about his homosexuality. I was gonna ask about that, despite how repressive Attitudes were in that day and age. And I just have to say, I mean, the United States is really bad. Britain was worse. Oh God. They were not, they were bad. Yeah, they are. I know, they would like put people. They would put people in prison. Like Oscar Wilde. Went to prison for. I forgot what it was called, but we're going to talk about.

25:13 Okay, it's no bueno. Yeah, and you'll maybe is logic in his eyes. These what made him feel like. His orientation couldn't be a crime you know because he's like I don't know. Just I'm smart and does suck. So not important and you know, I'm logical and it's no big deal. So he just thought maybe, just maybe that's what he's just thought. He's like that's not a crime, you know? I mean his mind. Yeah, that's I mean it didn't seem like even with his friend when he told his friend Christopher like hey I'm gay is like don't swing that way but like I'm like that's cool. We can still be friends.

25:54 Yeah. And he was down for that. It didn't seem like he was ever trying to hide who he was Claire. He I felt like he had any reason to have to hide that. Let's see, just save the freaking world. I mean bt-dubs, like I don't know, really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Right? I just saved you from Hitler's. Yes I think I can be gay. Yeah, absolutely. And plus he lived a very sheltered liberal life at Cambridge. You know what I mean? That's right. That sounds parents were kind of like that too. Like everyone. He didn't really understand how the world could be. Well, He's in for a shock because homosexuality was a criminal offense at the time criminal criminal and in February of 52 touring was arrested for having a sexual relationship with a man, and then he was tried and convicted of gross indecency.

26:53 Gross indecency, there's something called yeah. And so then to avoid prison. So this was his options, okay? We're going to go to prison for being gay. Or you cannot go to prison and we will chemically castrate you. Because you shouldn't have any sexual desires if you're gay. So, what'll it be. but you do want and he says, I'm not going to present to have to make that decision.

27:35 He's a logical dude, right? He knows it's going to happen, right? He's not denying who he is. Right. 50. What was that? 1952. It's like like what? Five years after the war fuckin ended or something like that? Yeah, exactly. 43. Yeah, well, yeah, but like, okay. So like less than ten years after he saved, they're like, oh yeah, yeah, thanks for what you did in the past. But, but your gross. And yeah, this is like indecent. Yeah. Indecent to who. That's oh, God, your McGill get me going, girl. I'm so so he did it.

28:20 And basically, they just have like a I think it's like high doses of female. Estrogen, estrogen, female hormone is so what he took. So is essentially a chemical castration and they gave it neutralizes the iron, neutralizers your libido. So there's like, you have no zero like zero sexual desire plus, I'm sure it helps with you probably gives you boobs and shrinks your balls and all, you know, all these terrible terrible. Physical things, not to mention the emotional things, with all those female hormones, running through my God. It's I just, it's makes me sick. Yeah, so in June, 7th of 1954 at the age of 42 Alan is found dead in his home in Williams or chef chef sure. Now the exact circumstances of his death is can never be known. He was alone.

29:16 No one was with him. But Alan had previously spoken of suicide to his friends. Oh no, and so they just the corner, just chalked it up to suicide. Now, next to turing's body was an apple was partially eaten. Now years before this is really interesting, okay. Alan had gone to see Snow White and seven drawers. Yeah. And he was friends were saying he was particularly taken with the scene where that wicked witch dangled, the Apple into that boil called ring and said, you know, dip the Apple in the brew and that the sleeping death seep through, he was very take. Oh, yeah, And I saw this thing and said it had been reported, that Alan had wanted quote to invest his departure from a world that had treated him.

30:15 So shabbily, with some of the gothic Erie colorful Brilliance of a Disney film. What? So he killed himself. So right poisoning or assuming herbal thinking that he poisoned himself. That's how he killed himself. So they didn't see like a noose or anything. They just saw him dead. Yes. And he had an apple next to him. Yes. Oh my God. That is so McCobb. Isn't it McCobb? But you think about? Yeah. How messed up? He had to have been I mean it's heartbreaking, you know, it's hard like you started it.

30:59 You started telling Alan turing's, you know, story of his life by talking about Christopher who was his like unrequited love. And I'm like, oh my God, that's heartbreaking enough and like and then we're we continue down this Rabbit Hole of like you know, he does 11 scientific discovery after the next and You know, less than 10 years later he's living and like, of course, he's never hit who the hell he was? He's always been forthright. Honest logical about, who he was. Yep. And like, yeah, we need you to be chemically castrated or you can go to prison.

31:42 Looks like I'm going to have to take the chemical castration cause there's no way. I'm, there's no way I know myself. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna live in sin is a person. Yeah. So you know, they were basically giving him a death sentence then ugly and then what you can't really be yourself or you can't live life the way you want to live at know and it just there is no logic in that. None. None. So you just on the problem yourself, that's exactly it, which is exactly. Is so sad and it's nothing any life was, right? Going to have any kind of a life. Yeah, they based they showed him that he wasn't going to, they made. Made him, right?

32:23 They forced him into that. So the pathologist post-mortem report suggests is kind of a bit more unromantic. They say, so the autopsies autopsy revealed, that touring stomach contained four ounces of a fluid that smelt of bitter almonds solute, which is, was cyanide? Yeah. Is that is that almond smell that his death was not accidental. Yeah, God there was enough poison to fill a wine glass. Oh my God. So he probably took a wine glass filled with it. They think that they think he took bites of the apple to make the more palatable.

33:05 Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. It's also very dramatic way to die thinking about it. That way, she'll write the McCobb seen, right? But it's a, it's my God, just awful, it's horrendous. So, as we mentioned, if you guys haven't seen the imitation game, Benedict Cumberbatch, I really have recommend. Have you seen it? I haven't seen any gets good. Is that it does a really, really, really good job. Now, they don't highlight The storyline isn't about him being gay, right? Because that's just that's that's insignificant right detail. So yeah, grand scheme of things. I think they'll honor him really well and and just portrays is genius really Goods.

33:56 I would recommend watching and if you're interested. Yeah, and what I found out is they just announced A musical called Alan Turing. Guilty of love. Oh, you know, we're saying, Count Me In say they say the description was this musical explores the love and Human Side of Allen, delving into the life of the mathematical genius, as well as the Betrayal of a Nation. I think it's in Course, New York probably like, Off Broadway or something like that. But my God I think it starts.

34:40 Its debut is in Edinboro in The Fringe Festival and all fine. August. Oh my God. If anyone's in Edinburgh. Exactly. How lost I yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope it's really good. I do too, but let's switch gears a little bit and let's talk about out all of the bizarre and twisted ways that Christian's. Another God-fearing. People went to rid. the planet of Bad Satan people, bad State and people. Yeah.

35:27 Okay. You know, people that you fun people. I mean all the fun people. The people we want to hang around. I'm trying not to get too invested in it and the mat, that's why I'm struggling with words because I want to just like, you know, I want to just, I can see, I can say my words, I can see it in your and your Rainbow be good eyes. What? You're Trying to say. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So here are the terrible disgusting bizarre crap that people have done to LGB the LGBT community ready for this. Probably not. But no, I'm not ready. So chemical castration will start off there, just talked about that. So it's useful purposes was to help kill Cancers and tumors that feed on hormones picture, combat, the hormones. That makes sense.

36:21 But it's more common. Use is just try and stop gay and lesbian sex offenders from having or wanting sex. How fucking stupid is that, like, why are we spending like any time on that? Who cares cares? Uh, it's really like, not that big of a deal. I, am I bothering you? Okay, can I tell you? I was okay. So, I was working in my past life. That's also my current life in a very Conservative environment. And in this environment it was like you know good old boys down south boys, you know.

37:10 And I remember it was around like Proposition 8 and like that stuff happening. It's like Proposition 8 was for Nia when California. So Proposition 8 said like illegal to for you know, people who are gay to get married, like same-sex Bulba whatever. So, oh, There was a huge movement and he was talking about that was around, you know, Obama has new toy to presidency and he was saying, you know, he said, I don't know what these Liberals are doing and I was like riding to work with in my bike. He's like, hey Alicia, you you ride, you ride to work with your on your bike and your grass skirt like grass skirt. Like I don't have a grass skirt. He was like saying that I'm always like a pothead and like I'm not by the way, I'm just not hot. No problem for people who Our, but I'm, that's just not me. But anyways, he was making fun of me and he said, you know what, he said this, like whole gay thing. He said, I don't get it supposed to be Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

38:10 Oh my God. And I was sitting there thinking, do you know who I am? Like, like, do you know how many friends I have? Who are gay? Like, you're a fucking idiot. But I looked at him and I was like, oh, I'm gonna get him right? Or I matters and I said, you know, I said yeah, whatever I don't really care about is the only Really care about who they're having sex with is, you know, my partner. I said, I think it's pretty gay. If you think if you're thinking about what other men are doing, why is that in your mind go? No, I don't care. I'm like then, wide wide. Are you so hung up on it? You should only be like the only person you should care about is your wife. So if they're consensual people like, who cares doesn't matter and he was like, do the love though.

38:56 I'm like yeah, those little like, walk back into the fucking closet. Is that like if you have such an issue with it? Yeah. So obnoxious. I'm sorry. I'm saying this as an ally. Hi here. You start and then your blood starts to go and you feel it. I can feel it right now. Like honestly, my heart is just like probably look silly just want to know. Okay, sorry. No, it's okay. I knew we were going to go on Dan Jones. I knew we were another one is aversion therapy. Uh-huh. Would you like to tell the class what if what it is? So that's right.

39:38 Electrons attached to the wrist and lower leg and shocks administered while patients. Look at photographs of people in various stages of undress. The aim is to encourage avoidance of by the shock of moving the photographs by moving to photographs of the opposite sex. So you make them it's a version therapy you See, this is okay. You see, that's what. Oh, that's good. Yeah, this is good. This is a woman. You should like this, like how I just don't want you to hurt me again? She's, I have a feeling Kevin that that does not work. Of course it doesn't work. So barbaric, it's fucked. Okay.

40:19 I thought this was a different type of therapy, which I'm sure the one that I'm thinking of you going to go over, but that is, it's insane to me. That that is something that people were like no this is so it's so intense. They're so intense about. You not being that way. You like you are consuming my mama because you're not what I think you should be in. Always it's a boiling back to religion which is another thing just pisses me off, but it's like people who just like are really boring. I don't know what it is. I think they do. Have lives. And and to be completely honest, I wonder if a lot of it is like there's so much self-hatred that they have because maybe they're a little gay because I think, I mean, to be completely honest, I like go to the Kinsey scale like every, nobody's totally straight, nobody's totally gay.

41:14 Everyone is some shade of whatever. Inside of that Spectrum, you have these two sides and people really don't fit on those. We're all somewhere in the middle and maybe they're not so comfortable with being Maybe. not so straight maybe and so it's like that self-hatred that there then progressing onto you and of course, Parents teach parent kids to hate well do just that just goes and goes yeah, goes it's cyclical. So then of course there's now there's religious counseling. The so intense Bible study regardless of the person's beliefs or religion. You know, my God and my buck or the truth.

41:58 You will comprise comply and you will pray, the gay away, do whatever know just yet, another tool and critic a way. It's going to help. Just go talk to God about it. Gods like your school. If you're gay, know what these people are saying, bitch. I just I made him. Yeah, I made them. I know. No, I definitely know. Then there's hypnosis Isis. Oh, so like trying to get someone to stop smoking, right? So the aim here is to subconsciously get the subject to have uncomfortable or unpleasant feelings when they think about or engage in sexual activity.

42:43 So weird that is so weird. Like people do that for like smoking happens, right? Like I hate this innate thing, as you choose to smoke. You choose to be gay, right? That's what people do, right? Can hypnotize you to just Stop that bad habit. Just like you choose to be straight or you choose to like Itza or whatever. It's like, we're just kind of like it, God, then there's masculinization programs. Oh, what's that? It's just what the name, implies, you have to go do things that a man supposed to do to try to masculinize. Um, we're gonna go, we're gonna go hunt me, man.

43:23 Me strong. Yeah, but plenty of gay guys, like that kind of stuff. Hello, I like to shoot. You like shooting stuff. Yeah. You like you the amount of things that I find out about you that you enjoy doing them. Like you're just ruining an Enigma machine. I didn't know you liked this 20. You have oh oh, you like she goes. Oh, that's cool. I had no clue. Yeah. Like, I don't know, maybe people can be multifaceted, do you think? No, you have to be in a box Alicia. I'm gonna put you in this box. You must In this box, if you bleed edges outside of the box, we must fix you.

44:04 Mmm dumb hashtag stupid suck stupid. Then there's exorcisms exercising gay audio. Huh? Well, it's a demon. It's the devil. I was just gonna go to really - are like a really weird place of like a hat of the exercise because you know, those priests are like, oh yeah, entitled definitely exercise that. I'm sure you will preach fucking bill priest. Fill priest? I don't know. Name them. There's a reason why they wanted to into being a priest because they couldn't. Yes. Larry search choose to be gay. They choose.

44:47 And maybe why they behave so poorly. Because there's so, Their minds are so Twisted. All of the, well, I think a lot of these people, they're in, such conservative, you know, upbringings, they're like, well, this is not. I'm just going to devote my life to the church and like same thing with women who are nuns and stuff like that. Same kind of thing, like, they're devoting their life to the church, and the idea behind that is You know I can't act out right this right? This will cure me. Yeah let's see. There's something called psychodrama who this sounds fun even though I know I thought kind of a Psycho Drama has been described as individual therapy, but in a group format, With the action taking place around, the protagonist protagonist multiple roles in life, such as a parent partner, a sibling and an employee. So there's three types of psychodrama something called doubling and that's when another person physically standing close by the protagonist is mimicking them. In their postures, they can see how awful they are 0 because everyone who's like gay has a specific posture and mannerisms Disgusting you are it's just bullying. Totally that's just bring a Boolean to their back. I hate how you laugh?

46:18 Like exactly I can't help that geez make me feel so self-conscious. Fuck there's mirroring where the protagonist will take a seat and let everyone pretend to be them. Mirroring what they like. All of your, all of your everybody in the group. Oh my God. And then there's role reversal where you stepping, out of One's Own identity, and trading places with another. So, pretending to be your father, who's disgusted by you? Oh, you have to pretend like, I have to pretend to be my dad who just thinks testing. That's so awful awful. It's like so just happens to this day people.

47:00 I was going to say don't they? And you might be bringing it up what we're like because I actually I have a personal, not so personal story about this but the black reformed gays are like lesbians who are therapists what was that called. And they're like Christian or whatever. Oh, like the converter conversion therapy but it's like, oh yeah. No actually, like I was just believing like the Wicked Ways of the world and stuff so that is conversion therapy. All they're doing is convincing themselves of something. That's not true. That's yeah. No, they're still like everyone's still gay. I had a friend.

47:41 I'm not kidding you. I had a friend in 2009-2010, who was Having a hard time. And of course, go figure. Like, I'm always like one of the first people that people come out. Like, during that time, we were talking about this earlier. I was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense, but, but I don't who cares. Like, I never doesn't bother me. Well, his family got really fucking weird and like took him out of school and then he was in therapy, like with a reformed lesbian and he's like no, he's like I think I I probably could like there are some women that I've thought are attractive. I'm like, yeah.

48:24 But you don't want to fuck them like like you don't have any sexual leans like I can sit here and be like their women. I find attractive but it's not like I want to have a sexual encounter with them. Like it's just bull can be attractive. You can. Yeah yeah people can be attractive or can be, it doesn't mean you know anything. And I just remember the torture that he was in because he honestly like Heathen. It's so sad and You know, families putting putting their and not think that was in Colorado about ten years ago in Colorado. Colorado is pretty freaking, you know, liberal, right? I can't imagine how it's this.

49:05 This is still happening by the way, I don't know. I feel like we should say something like along the lines of, you know, if you find yourself in a situation like that, you know, there's help there is a help of anything to eat 11 if you have suicidal. Thoughts. And if you know there's all kinds of Center like go to lgbtq centers. Yeah. Petey's centers or I mean, there's some find call you think ol call 1-800 numbers. The Trevor Project is another great resource, at least in Colorado. There's the center in in Denver, and it's a resource for, for kids. And for, you know, adults anyone who's lgbtq+ to, you know, all the stuff.

49:50 Shokran. MZ all the acronyms, the alphabet Mafia. Yeah. Anyone. Who's a member, you know, that's there for you and it's really not that big of a deal one, right? But you're not alone and there are resources out there, you know, and that's that's a good point because, you know, we are laughing about it. It's because it's so absurd. It's so absurd. So, Absurd. But there are, there are all kinds of people. Hello Alicia. And I are here, we have yes, phone number on our website. Yeah, please call us a call. We would love, we would be happy to talk to you, happy to help you. So, abreaction every Bria. I think it's called it pronounced abreaction. Think every action is a psychoanalytical term for relieving, sorry, for reliving an experience to purge it of its emotional excess.

50:45 So type of course karthus cut this with artists are catharsis. Yeah, sometimes it is a method of becoming conscious of repressed, traumatic events. So a lot of times they will take what traumatic event. Are you covering up with your homosexuality? What happened to you? You had to have been molested or raped and now you're just acting out. Oh my God, I'll tell you what. But the vast majority of the population has had some kind of trauma, but to equate that to being gay being gay. Yeah. That's a mind.

51:26 Fuck, it's in like all the worst way is torture. It's torture. It absolutely is electroconvulsive therapy is a treatment that involves sending electrical current through your brain. Right causing a brief surge of electrical activity within your brain. This is also known as a seizure, oh my God. It's like yeah, the electroshock therapy therapy. And so, they move that is to treat is to relieve the symptoms of the mental health problem that you have. Because guess what freaking like being gay was like in the DSM. Which is like the Diagnostics.

52:09 Yes, standard measurements. Yeah. I was like yeah psychiatric. Yes. Like it was it was considered a mental disorder. Yes. Until like pretty recently that's fucking crazy dude. Conversion therapy is what we're talking about. Yes, is the Practice of attempting to change an individual, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression to align with heterosexual and cisgender norms. Sounds really fun. Sounds like it's like sun. So productive and important. Oh my God.

52:52 Yeah because you know what? You know what I was thinking about like creative spaces and stuff. It's just filled with straight people. It's all straight men. Exactly. All the cool creative stuff is because straight men exists. Exactly. Hello. Larious So Florida, for example, oh my god. Oh great. We're bringing forth. Okay. Peace and love, peace and love Florida. But good God. Get your shit together. Get it together. Good girl, get a grip good. Girl.

53:33 Get a grip girl? Gonna grab Florida. Lay it on me. So they say you can't perform any type of sex, education to children. Yeah. Conversion therapy is totally okay. It's children. Like anyone who's under the age of 18? Well kids ask about sex? That's so stupid. Yeah but it shouldn't be done in a public space Oh my God. And you can try to convert someone for something. They didn't want to be and are not but it's not okay to discuss things that may help them or find discover who they want to be. It makes no fucking sense, makes no fucking sense. It's like such a cop-out.

54:17 It's like no, we're just like trying to be hands-off and letting the kid like the guys is like we're letting the kids be, whoever they want to be like, that's what they're trying to make this sound like men and not convert them, not encourage them to anyone, courage them to discover to, you want to encourage them to be gay. Hmm? You don't want to talk about it because you might introduce it and put thoughts in their head. The other thought is it? Well, it's not, it's not appropriate. That's not the place of teachers and such, but I would argue that a lot of these kids, that's where they get, that's where they'll see the only place they learned thing or the only place to get attention. Oh, yeah.

55:00 Because their parents are awful. Yes. plenty of kids, plenty of kids especially those who are gay or Gender questioning or whatever, their parents, probably. A lot of their parents are just awful. Yeah, they they want to save that. Now, there are four. I'm not going on a tangent here for a second. Please. There are four states. Indiana, Alabama, Georgia. And you guessed it Florida. That actually have laws that prohibit, local level bans on conversion therapy.

55:42 They prohibit bands on conversion conversion therapy, 20 States, there's absolutely no laws about conversion therapy. Five states where there is a ban for minors, only and 21 states with full-out bands. Thank you Colorado. Oh, when was that one was Colorado band? I do not know, but of the dates, I mean, it's one of the last 10 years, the 21. Well, thank fucking God for that. The thing that pisses me off, like, even just like the whole idea of like anyone who's under 80, we're not, we're not going to allow it.

56:26 Version therapy for anyone who is under 18. It's like the person I knew was over 18. Hmm. And it doesn't matter how I mean, of course you're an adult but like, you can still be lost. But like to take to take someone's like a place where someone so vulnerable and like trying to figure their own shit out which is hard for all of us. Yeah, like no matter what matter what, but like trying to figure that out when you think you're going to be facing adversity like us and then saying hate and evil to you. I mean how that's impossible. People who should love you the most. She's your family. They're like, oh no, we found a solution for you. We found this great therapist like you do your thing. I can talk to them about, they've gone through the same thing as you, and in reality, you're like, oh my God, that's great.

57:10 Like I I've always wanted someone to talk to about it. I want you to love me and and so I'll do whatever you whatever. That's what you need and then you find out. It's fucking conversion therapy. Like if somebody's trying to, if you have a therapist who's trying to tell you, That you are not gay or you're not straight or not like a to be who you are. Yeah, it's not okay, to be who you are. Like yeah. Like these emerges that you have that are normal. Like there are you know there are some weirdoes out there no matter what like that one or that one shows. Like there's like this guy was like I'm just really attracted to my car and you're like dude that's weird like okay there's something of that but like but like if it's like, you know, two people who are, you know, loving each other. Other adults like can make their own decisions but we're just human humans who like who want connection and and shame on people who dictating it.

58:08 Yeah. Who are trying to put rules on that human connection between two people because it doesn't look the same for anyone. That's right. That's exactly. That's well, said, well said, that's exactly right. Here's another one. Marriage ban. That's an obvious one. Oh yeah. Gay marriage. Fat. Huh. It wasn't until just eight short years ago, that marriage was legal for the entire United States for gay couples. Well, and you are married. Aren't you all right? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean we're this is technically Soul Union. I mean, we're State of California, Colorado. We are married. Okay. Yes, yes. I mean, we didn't go through the whole formal marriage. Yeah.

58:49 Who cares. It doesn't matter. It's literally a piece of paper. It's a piece of paper. Yeah, we've been together for 28 fucking here. We're married. You guys are very fridge, sir. Yes, but I mean like the fact that you guys been together together for 28 years, 20 of those years. It was not right? That's crazy. Yeah. And so the argument always is around that has been centered around religion and like you said before, you know it's Adam and Eve not Adam. Shut up. Oh, here's oh my God. Okay, I'm going off on a tangent for so, please. Okay people I want you to listen if You're not gonna listen to this entire episode. I want you to hear these words.

59:33 When people say, That gay marriage will ruin. The sanctity of marriage. They say this a lot that is why we can't have it. It ruins, the sanctity of marriage, right? so, I'm going to say you, listen here, you little asshole, Stop watching shit like the 90-day fiance or the bachelor? Yes all the shit where blunt I'm going to meet you behind a wall and marry you. Oh, it's so dumb. That's not ruining. The sanctity of marriage. Eat my shorts pisses me off.

1:00:17 I hate it so much to quote, the great Bart Simpson, eat my shorts. God Hippocrates. Okay. Last one I have on the list is to not just plain out denial Services. Businesses will flat out say oh you're gay. Oh I'm not gonna make a cake. Oh you're gay. I might make a cards so dumb. Okay because can I can I just like people who think that can I can I give you a little All word of advice. The gays? Yeah, you want them on your side? Okay. We want the gays on our side. You want to know why? Because they fucking support, and droves. Bud, Light.

1:01:01 Oh Bud, Light is fucking doing just great. Stay up. Don't need any straight, he's to be doing great. Right there? Kegs of beer, go ahead? Yeah, go ahead. Oh, it's being bought and Drums by the game. Is another thing like, okay, guess who all of us want to have our neighbors. We want some gaber's, okay Gamers. Yeah, we want some Gamers, because Guess What? Mmm, they take care of their shit. Yeah, we're respectful respectful. They are, you know, people who are, you know, in that Community are very loyal. Like, you know, you're really like, just cutting off your nose to spite your face except when it comes to to not to denying services like who cares. Care is like, okay, someone's having a period party? Like, is that weird?

1:01:50 Yeah, it's probably weird to a lot of people. I kind of think it's a little weird. But who fucking cares? Like right before doing this sell 100 cards. Yeah, I'm gonna yeah. But it's all on awesome. I'm gonna sell this really nice cake. Yeah. And guess what? It's gonna help me pay my bills. So like who gives a shit? It's so dumb, it's so dumb. So dumb. Now. You mentioned this earlier but it wasn't until 92 that homosexuality was removed from the international classification of diseases. Yes. Yep. Diseases 92. Uh-huh, 92. Good God. Good God. Girl. Get her head. There has been a formal study after study which sorry it shouldn't take a study to comprehend this that there is zero benefit.

1:02:48 And extreme consequence of defining same-sex attraction as a mental illness. And designing treatment to eradicate it. You know, it's insane. I we had talked about this earlier and I like so my grandmother. Hmm, was gay. How old was she? When was she born? Do you know, probably in the late 30s? Okay, third late 30s. Yeah, because she had my mom in 1965 so I would assume she was at least 20.

1:03:28 Okay, so so okay 40s 30s 40s. Okay. Yeah, so maybe the 1940s was when she was born early 30s but she had she was raised Catholic and had told her aunt and uncle who she loved dearly and they're like oh we will disown you if you're gay. So she never came out to my mom. Never mind. She's like, okay well she had Two kids at this point. I mean and thank God thanks grandma because we wouldn't be here unfortunately. You know, I wish she would have been able to, you know, feel you know, to feel like she could actually be herself. That's why. I'm like such an ally today is because, you know, she was unable to be who she was, you're an ally today Alicia because you have Common sense.

1:04:19 I mean because because I don't know yeah, I'm a person who has a lot of gay friends and I don't give a shit about what they do. Don't give a shit. It's like you're just you'd like but humans be humans your. Yeah, you just go figure but I mean to even think like her. Yeah. She couldn't be gay at all and and then fucking hearing about the DSM. Like I remember somebody saying that hose just outlawed or like taken off the DSM like diagnostic list of I'm like yeah, they thought it was an actual disease. God like it's insane. It's crazy, sane. Did I hide who you are? So I'm going to leave you all with my final thoughts.

1:05:02 Hashtag Jerry Springer? Hashtag. Yes, our AP Jerry Springer. So, regardless of your feelings and opinions on things we've discussed today and should remember that. You are all humans living on a planet with other humans. It doesn't matter how people dress look live or love. We are all Omens and the rights of people are the rights of all people. They are human rights and it doesn't matter if you think people are going to hell for their actions because it doesn't impact you. So, let God do the judging and the punishment that you believe in and don't late.

1:05:45 Don't let hate and pity consume your little mind for even a little second because people who don't believe in the same things you do or behave like you. You or Love Like You Do aren't consumed by you. I promise you that. So just treat every human on this planet with dignity and respect and as my Queen of the Universe. RuPaul says, a little bit of love. Goes a long long way. Amen. Thanks for joining today. Oh, amen. And cheers. And you know what? Happy Pride to use Kevin Pride to you and everyone Into the, what's the word? Cheers to everyone in the world.

1:06:29 Happy bride! Happy Pride! Happy Pride to Every Creature. Great and Small. That's what I was looking for. Thanks again. Thank you. Yeah, see ya. Bye.